Talk:Pervasive developmental disorder

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 June 2020 and 21 August 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): M. Tam, Future UCSF Pharm.D, OSandoval Future UCSF PharmD, WilsonVuongUCSFPharmDStud.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:17, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2019 and 13 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Alima2407. Peer reviewers: Commerceam2023.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 06:28, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion for "Degrees" section
The following sentence seems potentially misleading:

"Some children do not speak at all, others speak in limited phrases or conversations, and some have relatively normal language development."

"Speech development" may be a more appropriate phrase than "language development". I have PDD-NOS, and as a child I didn't have "relatively normal language development". In terms of reading and writing ("language" skills), I had exceptional development. I'm sure I'm not the only one who can say that. The current phrasing of the quoted sentence could easily be misconstrued to imply that people like me are either lying or deluded about our "development" ; )

Untitled
Thank you, Karada. I agree that the text you removed sounded "wrong", I felt the same way but didn't dare to remove it, being a newbie and not wanting to anger people on my first day as a Wikipedian. --Woggly 10:59, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

No problems. Some general principles: If you set your preferences to add articles you edit to your watchlist, replies to your comments will automatically pop up in your watchlist. -- Karada 11:07, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * Obvious nonsense: just cut it out.
 * Dubious or disputable: cut it out, and copy it to the talk page with a comment about why you removed it.
 * Controversial (i.e. you think it's wrong, but know that some others will disagree) move to talk as above, then discuss on the talk page with other users as needed.

"PDD is not fatal and does not affect normal life expectancy." Does suicide count? Asperger's Syndrome says "People with AS attempt suicide at a staggeringly high rate in comparison to the general population, although whether this is due to AS or depression comorbid to AS is a matter of debate." Tualha 21:40, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Since moved to Conditions comorbid to autism spectrum disorders. Tualha (Talk) 04:07, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I'd recommend including some references to research demonstrating a correlation between PDD and suicides etc, instead of links to the pages of those words' definitions. 217.166.66.2 (talk) 08:25, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

New content
I added content about a treatment that I read about at http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=46768.

I felt that it was an important sounding new alternative and couldn't see that it would be too controversal. I also included a link to http://www.responsiveteaching.org/ (usigned, contributed by IP User: 24.18.191.84 )


 * I disagree. This reads like ad copy. Other, more common therapies with more research to back them are not listed here yet (such as ABA or Sensory Integration), listing only this one therapy gives a false impression of treatment options. --Woggly 09:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

An interesting treatment that we have been using (with great success) with my daughter, who is PDD/NOS, is NIDS http://nids.net/. We use the clinic in Northern NY http://www.nidsnnyclinic.org/ The whole basis of this being Neuro and immunological makes a lot of sense. Worth reading up on if someone wants to run with it, be my guest.

Merge with Autistic spectrum?
I was told by a professional in the autism community that PDD is know being refered as Autism Spectrum Disorder. Can someone clarify this for me. --JFred 22:12, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Nevermind. According to this, there are a few pervasive developmental disorders that are not part of the autistic spectrum.  --JFred 22:17, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I work for a mental health agency in the USA and the terms Pervasive Developmental Disorder and Autistic Spectrum Disorders are used interchangably.

Someone else here said "there are a few pervasive developmental disorders that are not part of the autistic spectrum." This seems inaccurate to me. BAP (Broader Autistic Spectrum) appears to be a group of diagnoses with symptoms that share similiarities with Autism/PDD. Schizophrenia would probably fall under this category, but Schizophrenia is not considered a form of Autism/PDD.

I have no idea what the article means about how having la Yes, PDD is category, not a specific disorder. But if a clinician indicates only "PDD" there is no choice but to consider it "PDD NOS." NOS means "not otherwise specified"; since nothing is specified, that's what "NOS" is intended to indicate.

Another part of the article seems inaccurate to me. I never heard that having a label of either Autistic Spectrum Disorder as opposed to PDD makes any difference in qualifying for any kind of service. Unless the person who wrote it is talking about some kind of unusual stipulation that is only used in a particular state or by a particular agency. It sounds like an unreasonable rule to me since PDD and Autistic Spectrum Disorder are the same thing.

71.14.67.20 (talk) 17:40, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think the terminology is misleading: for instance, Williams syndrome could be classified as a pervasive developmental disorder because it is "pervasive" and comprises "developmental" delay. Is Williams syndrome exluded from PDDs (or, more generally, from mental disorders) because it has an obvious genetic basis? Apokrif (talk) 16:44, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I just don't understand.
Everything I've ever read or heard about autism, including everything on Wikipedia, indicates that it is primarily a social condition; that persons with autism don't develop normal social skills. My best friend's child (I think of him as my nephew, though there is no blood relationship) has just been diagnosed with Pervasive Developmental Disorder. His mother says the doctor told her it is a very mild form of autism.
 * Very advanced forms of autism affect more than just sociality, it can be a very debilitating condition that prevents the sufferer from even properly taking care of hirself.

I know this child well, and spend a lot of time with him and his mother. No one who spends even five minutes with this child can deny that his development is simply not normal. When she first said PDD, I said, "well, that's sort of like when someone goes to their doctor and says they are tired all the time and the doctor diagnoses them with Chronic Fatigue Syndrom." That's when she said no, it is an actual diagnosis, it is a mild form of autism.

But this child, while his development is certianly not normal, I don't believe he is autistic. He is almost 3, and his primary developmental delays seem to be that he cannot yet walk, and he cannot yet talk. However, except for the complete lack of language abilities, he seems to interact normally with other children and adults. His body language and facial expressions are not impaired, he recognizes people and is genuinly glad to see them, he smiles, laughs, crys, etc. in a normal fashion. He also seems to understand other people's body language. He loves to cuddle, kiss, and generally do all the social things that autistic kids generally do not do. Moreover, it seems that delayed motor skills are not a major function of autism or PDD, but the delayed motor skills are even more pronounced in this child than the delayed communication.

I know Wikipedia talk pages aren't the right location for this... I just don't understand, and was hoping the article could increase my understanding. And it didn't. ONUnicorn 15:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


 * PDD is not a mild form of autism. PDD is a general category that encompasses the whole range of autism as well as other disorders. In a way, a PDD diagnosis is like saying, "it looks a little bit like autism, but not quite, so it may be something else". Often a PDD diagnosis is given when some but not all symptoms of autism are present. A child could exhibit withdrawal, lack of social skills and developmental delays for a variety of reasons, not all of which resolve into autism. Children who are malnourished, abused or neglected, and children with undiagnosed sensory deficits such as deafness or poor proprioception can sometimes exhibit autistic-like traits. The Wikipedia article in its current form looks pretty sound from a scientific standpoint, but I agree that a layman would have trouble understanding what it's all about. If you think PDD is confusing, think of the poor parents who have to make sense of a diagnosis like MSDD. By the way, I've never heard of an adult with a PDD diagnosis. That's partly because it is a relatively new diagnosis, but partly because as kids grow and continue to develop it is usually possible to reach a more precise diagnosis. --woggly 15:55, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The article does not address the over diagnosis'.
This article gives a goodly amount of information on PDD, but neglects to mention a skeptics POV on the designation of PDD/NOS as a catchall for too many merely subjective impressions of the 'patients'. My daughter was 'diagnosed' with PDD/NOS at about age 2, yet I think this was more of a result of an hysterical mother who is overly concerned with the tiniest of differences between our daughter and the 'normal' behavior of a two year old. If you look closely enough, you could find almost anyone atypical in some way; as my daughter grew older, 7yo now, she more than compensated for any perceived anomolies and she seems as bright, articulate and sociable as any 7yo, yet she still carries the stigma her mother essentially lobbied for, and from which doctors were only too willing to create a new patient for future continuing revenues. PDD/NOS is another way of saying ideopathic, and like giving antibiotics for a viral infection, is often given just to sooth the patients' (guardians) concerns. It is being misapplied far too often. Unsigned. Revision as of 05:42, 24 September 2011, user:Garyonthenet.

Difference about PDD/ASD and similar disorders (like NVLD)
What is the main difference between PDD and NVLD? Does it is lack of theory of mind, weak central coherence and imaginative play or the main problem is poor ability to emotional experience with others with stereotyped and restricted activities?

What is between AS and NVLD? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.6.106.22 (talk) 10:55, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


 * You asked the same question at Talk:Diagnosis of Asperger syndrome, and I followed up there. Eubulides (talk) 21:25, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Plagiarism and more
I have reverted a substantial addition of text because of: Please be aware of WP:COPYVIO, WP:PARAPHRASE, WP:MEDMOS (on structure), and read Wikipedia Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 18:48, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Mutliple instances of plagiarism from numerous websites, including webmd, firstsigns, medicinenet, and several google books (and by the way, the APA is very protective of DSM text). Almost every piece of text I checked was directly copied.  Some of the text was lifted from public domain sites (without quotations), but most of that was text that didn't belong on this article anyway, and there was too much other plagiarism to sort out anything possibly worth keeping.
 * Multiple formatting errors
 * A good deal of text that didn't belong in this article anyway (diagnostic criteria for each condition belongs in those articles, not here).


 * To add to Sandy's advice, try to find sources that are recent systematic reviews as they are best. Read them thoroughly and see if there is anything there that can be usefully added to the article. Then without going back to the source, try to summarise it in your own words. You can always double-check after you've composed some draft text. Here's an example of the sort of source that may be worth reading: Parent implemented early intervention for young children with autism spectrum disorder: a systematic review - it doesn't have much to say but it is recent and a decent secondary source. Here's a GScholar search you can use to give yourself some leads: "Cochrane review Pervasive developmental disorder". If you are unsure, you can always ask questions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine. --RexxS (talk) 01:05, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Foundations II 2020 Group 32 proposed edits
The article is outdated and is lacking information. I included some bullet points of what could be fixed, what could be expanded on, and what could be further clarrified. Though no one has updated the article in quite some time, it is important to take into account what others have said in the talk section. It should be noted that sensitivity should be taken when writing this article and provide bias free information that is informative.

OSandoval Future UCSF PharmD (talk) 20:33, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * 1) I propose to use more recent sources than the outdated references ranging from 2003-2013.
 * 2) I propose to include more citations and more articles.
 * 3) I propose we include information on the confusion over the use of the term PDD.
 * 4) I propose we cover the confusion over the diagnosis of PDD and the change to autism spectrum disorders.
 * 5) I propose we cover the difference between PDD and ASD.
 * 6) I propose we expand on PDD being used when unable to effectively diagnose autism.
 * 7) I propose we edit the Classification section because it is a little difficult to understand.
 * 8) I propose we cover PDD v PDD-NOS.
 * 9) I propose we edit the Treatment section to include more information such as ABA, sensory integration, NIDS, etc.
 * 10) I propose we be more specific about the signs and symptoms.
 * 11) I propose we introduce the link between PDD and suicide?
 * 1. Please be sure to use recent secondary reviews, and provide PMIDs to the extent possible. When editing Wikipedia, the idea is not to add what you think you want to add, but what is already covered in recent secondary reviews.
 * 2. Ditto.  Sometimes content is better removed than cited-- content that is not mentioned in secondary reviews may be WP:UNDUE.
 * 4. Keep in mind the DSM and ICD are not the same thing.
 * 5. Ditto
 * 6. Only if secondary sources cover that.
 * 9. Please take care not to duplicate information already available at autism or autism spectrum; the only reason this article would have expanded treatment information is if there is something specific to PDD that is different than other autism spectrum disorders, and I am unsure that there is.  A hatnote link is usually sufficient, and it is best to avoid duplicating material already covered.
 * 11. What source do you plan to use for that, and is it specific to PDD and a secondary review?
 * Sandy Georgia (Talk)  21:17, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * , I am wondering why you removed this cited text, which as far as I know, is accurate? I am also wondering about this edit, as the DSM is used in places other than the US. Perhaps you are planning to rewrite the entire thing? Sandy Georgia (Talk)  00:09, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes I am planning on rewriting the entire thing. Thank you for your feedback. OSandoval Future UCSF PharmD (talk) 00:16, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Got it, Sandy Georgia (Talk)  00:21, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Got it, Sandy Georgia (Talk)  00:21, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Purpose of Behavior section?
The "Behavior" subsection of "Diagnosis" seems really out of place. Since it exclusively talks about the relationship between crime and Autism, it almost seems like it should be in a different article/page, and not under PDD (perhaps it would fit under the Autism page?), though certainly having it under diagnosis seems like an odd choice. Also, the abbreviation HFA is never explained -- does that stand for High Functioning Autism? I don't want to move or modify the segment without understanding why it is there, so if anyone could explain or move it, it'd be much appreciated. Polynumeric (talk) 16:15, 27 February 2022 (UTC)