Talk:Pervez Musharraf/Archive 3

Article needs revision
This article seems biased in favour of Musharraf and his reign in Pakistan. Not much is said of how Pakistan became destabilised with taliban, gas, fuel, flour, water shortages. Also, the article has many many grammatical mistakes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.153.120 (talk) 08:32, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree. The article does appear to be POV but also very neglected which makes creating POV easy. Feel free to assist if there are areas you know of. Peaceblissharmony (talk) 13:39, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Every Single Article on Wikipedia needs Revision
Yeah, every single article on Wikipedia needs revision, in the opinion of one or the other. Visit the "Nawaz Sharif" one and you'll know, what POV exactly is. FaithUnity (talk) 17:54, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

I would agree to this extend, no two people can ever agree to a particular anaylsis, without asserting their assessment. Analysis or interpretations, by any journalist, can never be a replacement of facts or figures. Facts should be verified by newspapers or encyclopedic information and not personal elucidation. GeneralNeo (talk) 19:15, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Then neither can opinions/statements made by people regarding their own (alleged) effort be regarded as facts. In fact what is fact? A debate in its own right. However as the discussion is already taking plac above. Comments regarding Nawaz Sharif's article should be moved to its relevant discussion page. Peaceblissharmony (talk) 20:42, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Bare URLs as citations
The article is using Bare URLs as citations. It is requested to use a consistent style of citations, footnoting or external linking. See WP:CS for details. After its done remove the citation style tag. — Managerarc   (talk)  10:28, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Origins of Musharraf's family
Can someone provide evidence of Musharraf's family being of "Saudi Arab" origin? Musharraf is clearly descended from North Indian stock. His facial features and hair are clearly that. As well as the fact that the Mushar people were a low caste people in India that were thought to eat rats (Mus = rat/mouse + har = eat) that many have converted to Islam in the past and his name is clearly a reference to that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.89.40.155 (talk) 04:47, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Sec. 3.2.1: Support for the war on terror
Right from the beginning of the second paragraph:

The leadership in Pakistan war-gamed the USA and NATO as an enemy and realized that it was worthless committing suicide over the obstinate Taliban.

The historical fact is Pakistan offering support to the NATO coalition. Here however Pakistan "war-games" an "enemy", as the only way out of a NATO attack against Pakistan itself. Is this view supported by any source? Which?

Follows:

Galvanizing the whole nation into agreeing to fight the USA and NATO was another impossible task.

Again a military escalation against Pakistan is presented as the only possible outcome of a Pakistani refusal on the support for the war on terror. However, no such threat has ever been officially posed. Is the author view supported in any source? Which?

Later in the same paragraph, while discussing the possibility of India offering support on the war on terror:

Indian jets flying over Pakistan's space, with the strategic assets lying below, were a suicidal recipe.

This is fiction. It is not a fact. I do not reckon this paragraph fits the standards of an article related as B-class.

Adamtullio (talk) 22:34, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Muhajir
Hi, it arose on another article 'Imran Farooq' the same issue, anyways this subject was in the cat 'Muhajir' which is not supported in the body of the article so I have removed it, is there a citation in which he is referred to as a Muhajir? please feel free to cite and replace. Off2riorob (talk) 10:28, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Muhajir people are those who are predominantly native Urdu speaking Muslims of British India, migrated to Pakistan following independence in 1947. Musharraf was born in Delhi, British India on August 11, 1943 and after independence of Pakistan, Musharraf's family migrated to Pakistan. --Saqib Qayyum (talk) 10:44, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I read the article. Have we got a single citation that refers to him as a Muhajir ? Off2riorob (talk) 11:22, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Unlock
Unlock the page now! --188.23.177.57 (talk) 09:58, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Rohan4u1, 6 October 2010
On 5 oct-10:- In a shockingly candid confession,former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf has admitted what India and the world have known for a while nowthat the Pakistani government trained terrorists against India,pushing them into Jammu & Kashmir. In an interview to German magazine Der Spiegel,Musharraf said,( Militant groups) were indeed formed.The government turned a blind eye because they wanted India to discuss Kashmir. Official sources here said this admission was no surprise.We have known of the close links between the Pakistan government and terror groups for a long time. But even though this is a known fact,this would be the first time that such an admission has been made by a former head of state. Questioned about Pakistans security forces training these terrorists,Musharraf said,The West was ignoring resolution of the Kashmir issue,which is the core issue of Pakistan.We expected the westespecially the US and important countries like Germany to resolve the Kashmir issue. Musharraf is planning a political comeback in Pakistan.The question is,why is he making admissions that are embarrassing to Pakistan

Rohan4u1 (talk) 05:23, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Thanks, Stickee (talk)  06:00, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Further development on this page
Reformation32 (talk) 23:27, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Major copy-editing is needed. Extensive pro-Musharraf bias in the old content in this article.
 * The Presidency, Fall from Presidency, and Post-Presidency is very painful to read. The material has arbitrary information. Anything that relates to domestic politics is very bogus. The woman's rights section is a mess.
 * This article uses very unreliable sources. The sources do not correlate to the actual facts in the article. Some sources are dead.
 * The referencing needs to be improved.
 * Missing content on:
 * Constitution re-write up
 * March 2000 Bill Clinton visit
 * Relationship with the United States and Pakistan's entanglement in the War on Terror
 * December 2001 Indian Parliament attacks
 * 2002 India-Pakistan standoff
 * 2004 Pakistan-India peace talks
 * 2004 refusal to retire as Army general
 * 2005 Pakistan earthquake
 * Failed Bhutto-Musharraf power sharing deal
 * Musharraf's views on Obama
 * 2011 United States tour
 * much more...

Problems With the Social Networks entry
The social networks entry was written in what appeared to be broken English. It it is overly pro-Musharraf and seems more like public relations than something you would expect to find in a Wikipedia article. There is a citation for the entry regarding Musharraf's Facebook page which links to what appears to be a public relations website  (Musharraf.org). The website Musharraf.org describes Musharraf as being "A Website Dedicated to the Father of Modern Pakistan the President of Pakistan General Pervez Musharraf. The Greatest Leader Pakistan has ever Seen". In the Social Networks section there is also a link to his facebook page which strikes me as not being appropriate. I will remove it.

I do not believe that his wikipedia page warrants a specific entry for social networks. I would appreciate some input as to whether my concerns are founded or unfounded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KioEstas (talk • contribs) 21:43, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Update
On the 5th of November I shared my concerns regarding the social networking entry. Since no one objected I have removed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KioEstas (talk • contribs) 02:25, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

No conclusive or persuasive evidence that Musharraf was involved in nuclear proliferation
This article states that " Musharraf has denied knowledge of or participation by Pakistan's government or army in this proliferation." but then goes on on to say that that there is evidence to the contrary. It cites 4 links. But none of these links provide evidence that is persuasive or conclusive. Here are my comments on these links:
 * [1] (http://spot.pcc.edu/~rwolf/nkorea_pak_nuke.htm)
 * NYT article dated November 24, 2002. This was well before the extent and independence of A.Q.Khan's rogue proliferation activities became known (in 2004.) North Korea had indeed received Pakistani nuclear technology, but not from the Pakistani government. Even in that NYT article, it says,
 * "Intelligence officials say they have seen no evidence of exchanges since Washington protested the July missile shipment. Even in that incident, they cannot determine if the C-130 that picked up missile parts in North Korea brought nuclear-related goods to North Korea.
 * But American and Asian officials are far from certain that Pakistan has cut off the relationship, or even whether General Musharraf is in control of the transactions. [emphasis mine]


 * [2](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A43573-2002Nov26&notFound=true,)
 * WaPo article date November 27, 2002, titled "Defector From N. Korea Creating a Stir in Japan." The defector claimed that Pakistan provided nuclear technology to North Korea. But again, the question - whether it was A. Q. Khan's organisation or the government of Pakistan - is not resolved. And the Japanese Foreign Ministry
 * "say his more sensational claims also cannot be proved -- and could complicate delicate diplomacy with North Korea.
 * "We just don't know for sure" about Aoyama, insisted a high-ranking official.


 * [3] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia-pacific/2339663.stm)
 * BBC news article dated 18 October, 2002. Again, this is before they found out that A.Q.Khan had been running a rogue operation.
 * "The Americans said that North Korea was trying to obtain large quantities of high-strength aluminium for centrifuges that are used to enrich uranium to provide bomb-making material.
 * "The Americans suspect that Pakistan has given North Korea critical help here - perhaps even the gas centrifuges themselves." As it turned out, A. Q. Khan did sell the centrifuges or parts thereof to N.Korea, but the parts were made in Malaysia and other places. This link is not relevant to the question of whether Musharraf knew about the provision of nuclear technology to N. Korea


 * [4] (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/7/2/132757.shtml))
 * An article dated June 4, 2003. Another article that predates the revelations of the extent of A.Q.Khan's rogue network. By this time, it had become widely known that N.Korea had Pakistani uranium-enrichment technology. It had naturally been assumed that the government was involved. As it turned out, though, the nuclear technology that N.Korea had was provided by A.Q.Khan.

Common elements here are that (1) the links are old. (2)They mention North Korea's provision of missile technologies to Pakistan, which is not disputed. (3) They incorrectly point to N. Korean possession of Pakistani nuclear technology as evidence that the Pakistani government was involved, when in the evidence now available points to A. Q. Khan's independent nuclear-supply network, which operated almost exclusively outside of Pakistan. For this reason, I feel justified in removing these links.
 * No user or IP for the above comment, nor any date? HammerFilmFan (talk) 20:16, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Kala Kashmiri
Black kashmiri since belongs to Kotli AJK, and a mahajir. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.39.211.110 (talk) 09:43, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you provide a reliable source for your assertion? -- S M S  Talk 10:09, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Links
>> Musharraf barred from leaving country>> Musharraf lawyers challenge treason charge(Lihaas (talk) 16:26, 31 January 2014 (UTC)).

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QASIM JAMIL EAGLE OF PAKISTAN
EAGLE OF PAKISTAN.............................. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.55.16.84 (talk) 15:41, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

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So, where does he live?
This article says, "Since quitting politics in 2008, Musharraf has lived in London since 24 November 2008." However, it also says, "He currently lives in Dubai in self-imposed exile." Well, which is it? Does he currently live in London or Dubai? 74.71.90.154 (talk) 07:09, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

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Support for the War on Terror
I'm confused over this statement: Musharraf allied with the United States against the Afghan mujahideen in Afghanistan after the September 11 attacks.

Shouldn't it be Taleban or Al-Qaeda, Afghan mujahideen is a bit anachronistic and conflates several unrelated things? Downstream01 (talk) 09:19, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Conflicting Birthdates
1947 or 1943? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harris0 (talk • contribs) 22:20, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It is written in his book that he was 4 years and 3 days old. That makes it 1943. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.70.204.159 (talk • contribs) 21:50, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Please correct this little typo
In "Early life", there is: ..."media management from Delhi university.[9]He is said to have"... -> There should be a space between "[9]" and "He". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.220.129.179 (talk • contribs) 02:29, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Edit request from Osamariaz, 25 October 2010
Please change the heading of Prime Minister to Chief Executive. In the box it uses the title of Prime minister for the time period of 12 October 1999 – 21 November 2002. He actually used the title of Chief Executive before taking over the role of President. He never officially used the title of Prime Minister ever in his career. I am attaching a link for the reference.

http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/06/20/musharraf.biog/

Osamariaz (talk) 18:38, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ It seems clear that he did not hold/assume the position of prime minister, so I have removed that from the template. -Atmoz (talk) 14:46, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 June 2022
Add more details related to Musharraf's illness, thanks Khan0321 (talk) 16:43, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:54, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Suggestions me
Suggestions me 111.68.104.141 (talk) 04:47, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Nominated for the main page
This article has been nominated to be linked on the main page under the section "In the News." Interested editors are invited to discuss the nomination here. Ad Orientem (talk) 15:17, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2023
Change the tenses in the article to indicate the subject is now dead. 69.127.153.207 (talk) 07:45, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
 * In progress. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:19, 5 February 2023 (UTC)