Talk:Pete Seeger/Archive 2

Semi-protected edit request on 29 January 2014
{I have in my hand a cd by Pete Seeger (c) Columbia 1963 that was not on your list of Selected Discography, perhaps you would like to add it to the list:}

Pete Seeger Children's Concert at Town Hall CK 46185 DIDP 072767 COLUMBIA AAD {26 tracks} {if you need more info, email me at ven60dor@gmail.com thank you}

2601:9:2400:462:D943:EF65:D133:1F45 (talk) 17:48, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

❌ As the article says, and you have repeated, "Selected discography" It also says Main article: Pete Seeger discography where you will find the Town Hall concert. - Arjayay (talk) 17:58, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

description of sentence misleading
Article reads that Seeger was "sentenced to 10 years in jail (to be served simultaneously)." The cited case makes clear (and news articles confirm) that he was sentenced to 10 1-year terms, to be served concurrently, i.e., that he was sentenced to one year in jail. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.167.212.109 (talk) 11:39, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

✅ Thank you for bringing this to our attention. You are quite right, it was misleading. It is fixed. Tvoz / talk 21:34, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

"refusal to testify" inaccurate
The article states / reads: "Seegers refusal to testify", which seems not only both out of place, inaccurate, but completely erroneous, as Mr. Seeger was there, he did testify, he did answer the House Committee on "un-american activities", it's just that the committee didn't like his answers, and convicted him in 1961, a judgment so erroneous and faulty that as the article now states "an appeals court ruled the indictment to be flawed and overturned his conviction.(in 1962)"

The article would better reflect actual reality were it rephrased to read: Seeger's answers to the committee led to a March 26, 1957, indictment for contempt of Congress. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.15.239.201 (talk) 08:08, 29 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Good suggestion. "Refusal" is also tabloid language and has no place in a quality encyclopaedia. HiLo48 (talk) 09:17, 29 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, I agree the original wording was not well-stated - he did not refuse to testify. Thanks for bringing this up. But he did refuse to answer questions that violated his rights, which is not tabloid wording,  it is accurate and reflects what happened. I reworked it a bit, but to say his answers led them to indict suggests that they didn't like the names he gave - in fact he took the moral, and Constitutional, position that they had no right to ask him those questions. That is what they didn't like, and that is why they indicted him for contempt, which indeed he had as they were contemptible. See the revised wording, and we can, of course, discuss further here if needed. Tvoz / talk 22:02, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Structure
As previously noted in archived Talk, the division into Musical Career and Activism doesn't work. Clearly they were intertwined in his life, and the distinction is not preserved in the content of these sections. Placing his death in between the two makes no sense either. I presume Musical Career was intended to be chronological, and Activism to be thematic, but Activism is largely chronological. As it stands, the Musical Career chronology has a gap between 1956 and 2000. (In addition, Later Career gives undue weight to recent events.) I would suggest combining both aspects of his career in chronological order.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:58, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree. I made the (now archived) comment below almost a year ago.  Unfortunately no-one responded and I didn't have the time to follow it through myself - but now, with more material becoming available in obituaries, it is surely a good idea to restructure the article more logically.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:06, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * "The structure of this article is very messy. Under 'Musical career', it skips from the late 1950s to 'recent work' in the 2000s, with no mention of what he did in the 40+ years in between. Some of his musical career seems to be covered in the section on 'Activism', but again that section goes all over the place, in terms of any chronological or logical order.  It would be better if the sections on 'Solo career and the folk song revival' and 'Pete Seeger and Bob Dylan' were taken out of that section and put (back?) in the 'Musical career' section.  I'm happy to do some work on the article myself, but I thought I'd check here first to see if any regular editors of the article have any strong views on the matter.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:35, 20 March 2013 (UTC)"

Yes. I saw your earlier comment. I think we need one chronologically based "Career" section which includes both activism and music (which in many instances are inseparable). I have made a drastic change along these lines which I think is justified given the mess that it's in and the lack of response in the past year. It could be refined a lot, but I don't think this new structure is unworkable.--Jack Upland (talk) 11:39, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I have not looked closely, but the idea sounds good to me.   Probably the simplest way to move forward on that is to "separate" working on structure (no deletions while restructuring) and just roll with it.  North8000  (talk) 11:52, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't object in principle to integrating his activism and his music - they are indeed inextricably intertwined. The way it now has been changed is a reasonable start but needs more work, as Jack said. Ghmyrtle - apologies - I must have missed that comment last year, or would have looked into it. Tvoz / talk 23:23, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Communism
The article doesn't give the date when he left the CPUSA. The section on the repudiation of Stalin is strange, because he was condemned in the USSR in 1956.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:37, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Based on what I know about the history of the CPUSA, a "celebrity" member like Seeger would have been given a fair amount of latitude while "drifting away" in the late 40s and early 50s, as long as they didn't openly criticize the party, and continued to support its front organizations. The party was so beleagured, with its leadership in jail or in the courtrooms, that they were happy to have support, even lukewarm, from people like Seeger. I do not know the date that his departure was unambiguous, but I believe that he was sympathetic for a very long time.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  07:47, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
 * That kind of goes against the basic idea of CP membership. (Or membership of most organisations to a degree.)  In any case, the text says he "drifted away" in the late 40s and early 50s whereas the footnote (31 under Early Activism) says he left the party in 1949. I think he remained a sympathesiser for the rest of his life, based on the information in the article.  But the 1949 date should be in the text if it is accurate.


 * I have changed the heading of the section from "Repudiation of Stalin" to something more general, but I think the content is a bit odd and idiosyncratic.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:10, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

correction to "Jonas Foundation" reference
In the 1st paragraph under "Career as musician and activist," reference is made to Seeger's participation in Camp Rising Sun. The sponsoring organization for the Camp is referred to as the "George E Jonas" Foundation. George Jonas was the founder of the Camp, but he named the sponsoring organization the Louis August Jonas Foundation, after his father. The Foundation's web page can be found at http://www.lajf.org/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by StringerM (talk • contribs) 12:37, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

A.J. Muste was white
A.J. Muste is listed here as an African-American activist; that is false. He was white. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.76.217.21 (talk) 02:44, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
 * You are correct. Muste was born in Holland and was white.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  07:13, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

section on "Death" seems biased
I applaud President Obama for his thoughtful words and demonstration of wisdom. However, giving his words such a prominent space within this section seems biased and appropriating a great man's death for a particular agenda. This surely is violating Wiki policies. By Suse999  Feb 6, 2014
 * I agree as that section looks now, but hopefully it's an ongoing project. It isn't as if there aren't more reactions waiting for someone to quote them. 83.253.28.222 (talk) 02:46, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

I think it's noteworthy that Obama paid tribute to Seeger. I don't think that's an endorsement of Obama.--Jack Upland (talk) 03:22, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * It is completely noteworthy that the president made that statement, and it should be included. To see that as biased, or following any agenda, is ridiculous. Tvoz / talk 06:46, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I believe Seeger performed at Obama's inauguration. He wasn't just any old performer the President happened to admire. Obviously a pretty special relationship. HiLo48 (talk) 07:49, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I think that a brief mention is appropriate. Maybe a bit of a trim would be good. I'll give it a try and see what happens.  North8000  (talk) 13:41, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Done. Small trim, just the part about the rest of the Obama family which was a bit extraneous anyway.   North8000  (talk) 13:44, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Good edit - what's there now is what should be. Tvoz / talk 21:17, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Quotes section
Quotes sections in biographies are inherently POV. I realize they are all sourced, but that isn't really my point. Who decides which of his quotes are most notable so that they are included? If I think a different set of about 10 of his quotes are more notable than the ones already included, does that mean I am entitled to remove the quotes that are there and replace them with my selections? If not, who decides that? The only solutions to this issue are remove all the quotes, decide by consensus here which are to be included, or find reliable source(s) to support quote selection. My personal opinion is to remove them here and link to Wikiquotes. 107.15.200.87 (talk) 02:25, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I am all in favor of properly cited relevant quotes embedded within the prose of an article. I, too, oppose separate sections for quotes.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  02:53, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Most if not all of the quotes listed in the "Quotes" section are of little if any relevance to his life and career, and are without any context. The article also contains lengthier quotes, as well as a link to Wikiquotes.  I'm comfortable with the whole of the "Quotes" section being removed - or, if one or two of them can be placed in context, perhaps include them in the main text.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:38, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree. There's no reason to keep it.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * If representative quotes were possible, I'd be favor of it. But these seem highly selective for particular issues.  North8000  (talk) 14:50, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Link to a Wikiquotes article and keep the section out of this wiki. If they can be integrated into the text of the article, fine—otherwise it isn't much better than a "cultural references" section. 72.200.151.13 (talk) 08:17, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Activism in the 1970's section
Hi, just hoping that I've placed this section correctly. Thanks (Time Overload (talk) 02:12, 30 August 2014 (UTC))
 * No, you haven't, but I've moved it. The structure is attempting to place things chronologically, which means 1970s activism doesn't sit next to the Spanish Civil War. As discussed above, and as your edit shows, there is no way to divide Seeger's activism from his music. However, it should be said this is a work in progress, and all editors are free to contribute, including me who dictatorially imposed this structure!--Jack Upland (talk) 10:01, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Later Work section
Would it be appropriate to mention his final public performance? It was at Carnegie Hall at Arlo Guthrie's annual post-Thanksgiving show on Nov. 30, 2013. (I was there; it was quite solemn as both men had just lost their wives.) For citation, see "correction" at bottom of http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/29/opinion/pete-seeger-neil-young-and-the-importance-of-letting-go.html. NewkirkPlaza (talk) 14:16, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Creation of article "Pollution of the Hudson River"
For reasons described at Talk:Pollution of the Hudson River I created the article Pollution of the Hudson River. I have deleted the content in this article which was covering this topic and replaced the content which was here with the lede of that pollution article and a link to the pollution article.

I propose that anyone with comments post them at that article, because multiple articles had been covering the topic of "pollution of the Hudson River", and I likewise have directed them all to that article. It is best to post there because this new pollution article affects several articles.  Blue Rasberry  (talk)  16:14, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Layout wackiness?
Just wondering if the indentation in the "Early Work" section - just below Pete's picture - was intentional. It seems odd and inappropriate. I was going to change it, but wanted to make sure it was not done intentionally for some reason. If anyone has knowledge for the reason, please share it here. I will change it if I receive no input in a reasonable amount of time. Thanks!THX1136 (talk) 16:37, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I just took a look at it and I think it was meant to be a set aside quote or quote box. Personally, I don't see the need for it as either.  If we keep any of it, it should be pared down considerably (and no longer set apart but consolidated into the section more normally. -- WV ● ✉ ✓  16:53, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * (e/c) It is a block quotation from the original source material. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:56, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Should there then be appropriate punctuation after the phrase "There the Seegers" such as a colon?THX1136 (talk) 17:05, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Take a look at WP:QUOTE and make a WP:BOLD decision based on that. Personally, I don't think the entire quote needs to be there.  It doesn't seem remarkable to me, rather, kind of rambling and not encyclopedia-worthy in total. -- WV ● ✉ ✓  17:07, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I attempted to add a colon after "There the Seegers" to conform to another similar situation later in the article but was blocked from doing so. I'll try again from another computer or after logging in another time. If anyone who is able to do this - if deemed acceptable and necessary - please feel free to do so. Thanks!THX1136 (talk) 20:08, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I think the layout could do with a lot of work. I attempted to bring some kind of order out of chaos, but what I did was very rough.--Jack Upland (talk) 07:54, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Not sure why anyone would have been blocked for adding a colon... I've done it anyway. But, I agree it would be better if the relevant parts of the quote were paraphrased and included as text.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:17, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

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Pete's the Archangel of North America. No Musician is More Humble than Pete Seeger. Even his last name is See ger. Eager to see clearly the truth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.36.159.12 (talk) 03:09, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

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pete seeger interview add
this link should be added under the "further reading" section under "interviews" ww w.chriscomerradio.com/pete_seeger/pete_seeger12-31-1996.htm

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