Talk:Peter Schickele

Genius
Peter Schickele (1935-present) is a composer, musician, and musical parodist. - is it POV to add "and genius"? I only asked ... :) Nevilley

"where he serves as a professor of both musicology" -- actually, the word Schickele uses in the context of the U.S.N.D.H. is "musicolology".
 * Quite quite. I've tweaked the article. Doug A Scott (talk) 15:57, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Badagnani and I have engaged in some background exchanges on PS which have in turn led to some changes here. The main thrust of these is to amply demonstrate the serious musical contributions of the composer, without letting them be smothered, as often is the case, by his egregious and hilarious PDQ Bach hijinks. You can find them on my Talk page if interested. ericbritton 11:56, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Who's the Genius here?

 * I believe that Schickele may eventually be thought of the composer of serious and ironic works of art, and that the sign for his irony is publishing under the name of P.D.Q. Bach. It seems shameful and disrespectful to cite him as only his "other musical career." After all, his oeuvre listing on https://www.schickele.com/cgi/catalogue.pl contains some 500 entries, and he freely intermixes the self-signed with the P.D.Q.-signed. Of these, about 350 are under his signature.
 * To that end, I am considering changing the heading from "Other musical career" to "Mature Career" and moving the section to before the "P.D.Q. Bach" section. I'll review comments after thirty days to determine a consensus. Tgkohn (talk) 23:48, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Distinguishing fact and parody
I've just gone in and made some stylistic changes, including consistently putting periods in "P. D. Q.", which is Schickele's own usage, and added a bibliographic entry for the "Definitive Biography." There are clearly some changes that need to be made to make it clear that P. D. Q. Bach and USNDH are both fictional, but I'm a newbie at Wikipedia editing, so I've avoided making substantive changes to any existing text so far.

I started to add an explanation of the S. numbers, but that probably belongs in the P. D. Q. Bach page rather than here.

Is there any particular reason to think Oedipus Tex is especially well known in the P. D. Q. corpus? GMcGath 13:04, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Good edits! I suggested pointing out the fictional quality of P.D.Q. Bach earlier but another editor here knows Schickele and says to leave the text as is, so as not to spoil the gag for readers who may not know that P.D.Q. Bach isn't real.  Oedipus Tex is known just because it's on a fairly recent CD, not due to many performances of it.  Badagnani 18:46, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I really have to disagree with that rationale. This isn't the place for "gags," especially for people who aren't aware that he's fictional. GMcGath 01:47, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I admit this is tricky, but how to do? The fact is the P.D.Q. is himself a "gag", but nonetheless one that is sufficiently well known, appreciated and musically important to merit good coverage in this fine WP source. If anyone can get beyond his life dates: 1807-1742, never mind the titles of his many and well known main works, and still have their eyes closed to his entirely fictional background (“clever parodies of classical music”), well I for one am at a bit of a loss. Of course you can cold turkey the whole thing, but in that case I will just look on in wonder.  (In fact why not? That may be funny in itself so not entirely a waste of time.) ericbritton 12:19, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Seems to me that just adding one word in parentheses would do what's necessary: "Schickele has, as part of his life long attempt to draw attention to the work of the deservedly forgotten (fictional) Baroque-ish composer P. D. Q. Bach..." Does anyone think that constitutes a spoiler? GMcGath 01:10, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes indeed! ;=) ericbritton 05:23, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm very glad someone besides me decided that it isn't any kind of secret that P. D. Q. Bach is a pseudonym for Schickele and finally made appropriate changes. The notion that saying so is some kind of "spoiler" is, frankly, absurd. GMcGath 16:28, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

While I know about what WP is supposed to be (I've been editing here for years), I also have great respect for good comedy. Most of us wouldn't reveal a magician's hallmark effect or illusion, so why reveal the essence of a long-running joke, now enshrined in history? All this accomplishes is helping to eliminate a very funny yet educational perennial contribution to the appreciation of classical music. If WP policy must apply to every article without exception, then I say: delete both articles. There is not enough fun in this old world, nor in many of its self-important WP editors (who scare away many experts who could have helped improve our more serious articles). David Spector (talk) 04:15, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

U. S. D. H.
Doesn't at least a mention of and link to this ficitional place belong somewhere in the article> 160.254.108.24 18:46, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It is there. Badagnani 18:51, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge with P.D.Q. Bach?
Should we merge this article with P.D.Q Bach's? It seems to me it'd be better to have one definitive article than two that are both relatively about the same person; one article that contains a section addressing Schikele's persona might be better. MG 18:08, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * There are distinct areas of interest. There are many people who are interested only in Schickele's P. D. Q. Bach work, and there are some (probably not nearly as many) who are interested in all aspects of his musical career. Some of the overlap could be trimmed, but I think readers are best served by having both articles. GMcGath 21:04, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Schickele's own compositions, arranging, work in broadcasting, etc. are quite distinct from the P. D. Q. Bach work. If you've had a chance to hear his compositions (I'd start with the Quartet for violin, clarinet, cello, and piano) you'll see what a fine composer of "serious" music he is.  Badagnani 00:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Schickele Mix
I added some information about Schickele Mix a couple of years ago and I have to say, it's sure been made to sound illiterate in the intervening time. Here's my old version:

"The Schickele Mix website reports that loss of funding ended the production of new programs in the late 1990s, and rebroadcasts of the existing programs finally ceased in June 2007.  (Only 119 of the 169 programs were in the rebroadcast rotation, due to the fact that earlier shows contained "American Public Radio" production IDs rather than ones crediting "Public Radio International."  In March 2006, some of the other "lost episodes" were added back to the rotation.) A notable remnant of this program is the Periodic Table of Musics  that lists the names of composers and performers used against mythical element names in a table format reminiscent of the Periodic table."

"Lack of funding ended the production of new programs in the late 1990s, and rebroadcasts of the existing programs finally ceased in June 2007. Only 119 of the 169 programs were in the rebroadcast rotation, because earlier shows contained American Public Radio production IDs rather than ones crediting Public Radio International. In March 2006, some of the other "lost episodes" were added back to the rotation, with one notable program remnant the Periodic Table of Musics, listing the names of musicians and composers as mythical element names in a format reminiscent of the Periodic table. "

I don't even know why the periodic table poster is worthy of mention at all (is every public radio premium worthy of mention?), but it was there, so I left it alone, but the way it comes out of the sentence now seems really clumsy. Now, if the person who did this editing had added something I'd understand why they felt the need to bother, but really, this is crappy editing that made the text worse while adding nothing informative.

Children
In which years were his children Karla and Matt born? Badagnani (talk) 22:15, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I get curious about families, too. I searched the Web for about an hour with no luck other than it is possible that Karla was born in Brooklyn some time in 1984 (only one semi-reliable source. David Spector (talk) 05:05, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I see two problems with the sentence that starts with "Matt Schickele, and is part...". 1) Maybe it should've read: "Matt Schickele is part of...". However, it doesn't appear that he is currently a member of M Shanghai, and should say something like: "Matt Schickele was a founding member of M Shanghai...". His website mentions this. 2) It looks like it could be part of the previous sentence and that Karla "has recorded solo music under the name K. Matt Schickele, and is part of the M Shanghai String Band." This incorrectly reads like Karla uses the name 'K. Matt Schickele' and that she is part of M Shanghai. Karla recorded under the name "K." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.34.110 (talk) 01:56, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Discography
Why no discography? isnt that how he is best known, by his records? Oh, they are all at the PDQ Bach article. I dont know, that seems disinguous, as the music is by schickele. i dont the records truly disguise that fact. there is still too much mixing up of the joke data real data associated with him, in my opinion.(mercurywoodrose)76.232.10.199 (talk) 06:13, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with your points. I was somewhat bemused by the attention given to his radio programs, since I only know him from records, a live concert I attended, and a video that included an interview with him. There needs to be quite a lot more about what instruments and musicians he regularly employs, in addition to those relatively rarely used "shock effect" instruments which he created. Also, more use needs to be made of "The Definitive Biography of P.D.Q Bach" which, currently, is tacked on to References w/o inline reference. Leptus Froggi (talk) 11:22, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Timeline problem
"... by 1972, they had become so popular that they were moved to Avery Fisher Hall in Lincoln Center. Vanguard Records released an album of that concert, and P. D. Q. Bach's career was launched.[3]"

This can't be right. There were four P.D.Q. Bach LP albums released before 1972, as early as 1965. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 (talk) 20:12, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Illustrious grandfather
I have only recently realized that Schickele’s grandfather was René Schickele, a well-known writer of the early 20th century whose works tried to reconcile France and Germany after the First World War. There is a separate Wikipedia article about him. Worth mentioning here? Partnerfrance (talk) 14:56, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Check the "Early life" section - it's already there. --Fru1tbat (talk) 17:36, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Johann Peter Schickele?
His college yearbook (Halcyon 1957) lists him as "Johann Peter Schickele"; not sure if this is his birth name, or merely a joke on his part. --Nat Gertler (talk) 19:47, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

brother
His brother David Schickele was an interesting guy, too: filmmaker, peace corps in Nigeria in the early 1960s, etc.--2001:9E8:567E:200:58EF:7A88:3593:D09F (talk) 18:21, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Teaching positions
Shouldn't we add the fact that he taught at Swarthmore and Juilliard?

From his New York Times obituary:


 * After earning his master’s, he spent a year on a Ford Foundation grant as a composer in residence for the Los Angeles public school system and taught briefly at Swarthmore before joining the faculty of Juilliard’s extension division in 1961. 76.190.213.189 (talk) 02:13, 18 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Go for it! -- Nat Gertler (talk) 02:24, 18 January 2024 (UTC)