Talk:Peter Spani (League of Lezhë)

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Antid. please don't try to add the same OR assertions that have been refuted. I've used an English-language/modern work from a Greek author, who has translated the Byzantine documents and the source misinterpretation you've been involved in is very easy to replicate. Stavrides has dedicated a whole chapter and you're disregarding it based on outdated sources that don't contradict anything but deal with the issue simplistically. For example the Novo Brdo leader Peter Spani had no relation to this branch of the Spani family and claimed no imperial ancestors. If someone used the same extrapolations then Alessio Span should have the same traits, but he didn't.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 11:06, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Please don't repeat that I added "the same OR assertions that have been refuted" unless you can provide a link which can prove your (false) accusations.
 * Your claim that I used outdated sources after you using Gjon Muzaka's 1510 work is absurd. I used the same work (Milan Shufflay) you used just a couple of minutes earlier and even informed me about it on my talk page.
 * Please follow WP:NPA and stop removing the significant views that have been published by reliable sources--Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:20, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you read the only complete source available and understand that only a branch claimed imperial/Byzantine descent?-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 10:32, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
 * As on Skanderbeg and Kastrioti family you cropped the quote again i.e source misinterpretation. The Sufflay quote you were using wasn't just Obitelj ova Span, de Span, Hispanus, Spanović podrijetlom je grčka but Toj skupštini pribiva i katolički Arbanas Petar Span, moćan pro* nijar oko Skadra i Drivosta. Obitelj ova Span, de Span, Hi* spanus, Spanović podrijetlom je grčka.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 10:39, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no source misinterpretation. What I wrote in the article is: " Spani family, which was of Greek origin." That asserttion is properly referenced with the quote you mentioned "Obitelj ova Span, de Span, Hi* spanus, Spanović podrijetlom je grčka". Please follow WP:NPA and stop removing the significant views that have been published by reliable sources.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:34, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Who wrote this citation? Majuru (talk) 21:32, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Latest edits
Are non-consensual and oversimplified. Specialized sources state things more clearly Aigest (talk) 21:57, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I provided four sources for the Greek origin assertion. One of the additional sources I provided is written by the most specialized author for this topic (Schmitt) who confirmed the Greek origin assertion. Removal of cited addition of other editors is disruptive especially with false excuses. There are no "specialized sources" which contradict this assertion. Please revert yourself.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:41, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * You provided Sufflay twice, a Serbian snippet without a title and author and Schmitt, who's probably reusing Sufflay. On the other hand, Stavrides deals with the "imperial" claims in a detailed manner.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 00:32, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * No. This is not about "imperial claims" but about ethnic origin of this family. It is not disputed by Stavrides and his text about Alessio Span. On the contrary. Therefore Shufflay and Schmitt are enough to support the Greek origin assertion.
 * Please find below details with title and author of the text published in Glas:
 * {{Citation |last=Božić |first= Ivan |author= Ivan Božić |authorlink=Ivan Božić (historian) |title= Glas |trans-title=|url= http://books.google.rs/books?ei=WgvqUP2FCoSL4ATEmoFw&id=kqorAQAAIAAJ&dq=%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8+%D0%B3%D1%80%D1%87%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3+%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%BB%D0%B0&q=%22%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8+%D1%81%D1%83+%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8+%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0+%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0+%D0%B3%D1%80%D1%87%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3+%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%BB%D0%B0%2C+%D0%BA%D0%BE%7D%D0%B0+%5D%D0%B5+%D1%83+XV+%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%83+%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B0+%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BD%D1%83+%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%83+%D1%83+%D0%B4%D1%80%D1%83%D1%88%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC+%D0%B8+%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC+%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%83+%22 |archiveurl= |archivedate= |format= |accessdate= |edition= |series= |volume= |date= |origyear= 1976 |year=1980 |month= |publisher= Serbian Academy of Science and Arts |location= Belgrade |language= Serbian |isbn= |oclc=183333221 |doi= |doi-inactive-date=|bibcode= |id= |page=37 |pages= |nopp= |at= |chapter=Спани - Шпање |chapterurl= |quote=СПАНИ — ШПАЊЕ Приказано на V скупу Одељења историјских наука 15. септембра 1976) Спани су били разграната породица грчког порекла, ко}а ]е у XV веку имала извесну улогу у друштвеном и политичном животу северне Албаније |laysummary= |laydate= |separator= |postscript= |lastauthoramp= |ref= }}
 * Its author is Ivan Božić (historian) a Yugoslavian historian and member of the Serbian Academy of Science and Arts. He was an expert in history of medieval Zeta and the Venetian Republic's policy toward its coastal areas.
 * Conclusion: the Greek origin assertion of Spani family is supported with multiple reliable sources. I provided requested details, i.e. author and the title of the text published in Glas (written by professional historian specialized in the subject). Taking that in consideration the Greek origin assertion should be restored. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 00:16, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Antid. Bozic's source was probably Sufflay as Aigest mentioned, who btw made a logical leap in his own assertion as Stavrides's analysis reveals. Claiming origin from a "Byzantine emperor" doesn't make your claim necessarily true, nor can one assume to which emperor Spani referred to, not to mention that you're extrapolating Sufflay's term used by the others as he probably meant it in the context of Byzantine.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:23, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Below are requested details about "a title and author" of the text published in Glas number 338. It is again Ivan Božić who confirmed the Greek origin assertion in his later 1983 work:
 * --Antidiskriminator (talk) 00:36, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * --Antidiskriminator (talk) 00:36, 10 January 2013 (UTC)