Talk:Phi Delta Theta/Archive 1

Major Revision (May 2007)
I don't know if there are any other Phi editors who are active on here but this is just for future reference. I've recently revised the article. It is the third time I have done so and hopefully will be the last since I've included more pictures, content and most importantly citations. I expanded on the history as well as the fraternity's programs. I didn't include any sections explaining symbols or any mission statements since I felt that what I added in the history and overall organization is far more interesting. I also did not change the infobox to the standard fraternity infobox because aesthetically, I just felt this was better. Also, since I added more pictures, I didn't want to incorporate pictures of the badge, flag, etc onto the main article fearing that it would've cluttered things up. However, that's just my opinion and can obviously be changed. I've revised the article in such a manner that hopefully down the future it may become a good article or even featured article. -- † Ðysepsion † Speak your mind 19:29, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

POV commentary and controversies
While revising the article I saw this line which was in regards to the alcohol free housing policy: "the type of brother now is very different from that of old - these current brothers would not have gotten bids in the past". If you have a personal problem with the policy this article is not the forum to do it and will be quickly reverted. As far as controversies are concerned, they should only be included if it is cited and/or affected the fraternity as a whole. A single risk management incident from a particular chapter should never be included unless it has received significant media attention AND has affected the reputation of the fraternity. Likewise, the accomplishments of a chapter should not be singled out. Keep in mind that Wikipedia is not the personal web provider for individual chapters. -- † Ðysepsion † Speak your mind 19:36, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

For more info on Famous Phis
www.famousphi.com

Official Mascot Beauragard the Owl
I can not find anything definitive on this item. I was told the mascot's name was Alpha, which also can not be authenticated. I suggest it be removed from the page unless someone can find proof. (See: http://www.phideltatheta.org/insignia.asp ) AriGold 18:56, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

As an undergrad I was told that the name of the owl was Beauragard. Even a Leadership Consultant confirmed it. However I also have not been able to find any proof it and it should be removed until proven otherwise.

I asked my buddy, who was a traveling consultant and said he had never heard of Beauragard. Ha. I removed it until we get something definitive. AriGold 18:56, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

As an undergrad I was told his name was Hooter the Owl.

->random trivia, Hooter's was founded (in part) by Ed Droste who was a TKE at Iowa State. So, by extension, "Hooter the Owl" has some historical context. ;) Ghwood (talk) 02:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I am an undergraduate member. The owl is supposed to be Pallas's owl. I'm not sure of its official name, but in any event, it is not the official mascot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.148.147.54 (talk) 20:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

ABC
The article mentions that Robert Kinter is a president of ABC, is this the same ABC as the American Broadcasting Company? Jaberwocky6669 21:54, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, he was the President of ABC from 1950-1956 and the President of NBC from 1958-1966. Born in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, U.S.A., 12 September 1909. Swarthmore College, B.A., 1931. Married: Jean Rodney, 1940; children: Susan and Michael. Served in the U.S. Army during World War II. Financial news reporter, Herald Tribune, 1933-37; columnist, Herald Tribune and North American Newspaper Alliance, 1937-41; vice president of public relations, ABC, 1944-50; president, ABC, 1950-56; president, NBC, 1956-66; cabinet liaison for Lyndon Johnson administration, 1966-67. Recipient: Legion of Merit, WWII. Died in Washington, D.C., 3 December 1980.

Chapter Listings
For future reference I would like a consensus about the inclusion/exclusion of a chapter list on this article. I think it's best to come up with a consensus about what to do should an editor come and start adding an extensive chapter list, and also because about half of fraternity articles have chapter lists. I'm against it because, in my opinion, they are nothing more than "vanity" additions. Anyone who is not a member of that particular organization doesn't look at the article and read 100+ item list of where a chapter is located. No one outside the organization really cares about chapter locations. The typical wiki reader would like to know about the history, significant accomplishments and perhaps famous alumni, but chapter locations are pointless because they can be accessed through the main fraternity website which is already referenced in the article. If you look at the Sigma Pi, Kappa Sigma, Tau Kappa Epsilon and Lambda Chi Alpha articles the lists become very cumbersome. The Lambda Chi Alpha article isn't really an article but rather an elaborate list of famous alumni and chapters; it offers no real substance to the organization itself. Also extensive chapter lists adds to the size of the article and may also be problematic in the future. Comments? Input? -- † Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 04:57, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd say just link a page to the PDT HQ page that has the chapter list: This one Maybe create a page of Phi Delta Theta active chapters? AriGold 22:07, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I think that the chapter listings are as important as anything else you would put on the page. People on this website make problems of everything. The truth is that when you look something up, the more information that comes up, the better. Furthermore, if someone from my university looks up Phi Delta Theta, I want them to see that there is a chapter at my university so they look into us more and hopefully join. I don't understand this site, who are you to decide what can be posted and what can't? Is this not a public access site? Everyone is entitled to add their input!

Really, unless you are a brother of Phi Delta Theta, what goes on this page should not concern you, and if you are a brother and don't want a chapter list, then you're just crazy...


 * First, I am a brother of Phi Delta Theta. In fact, I'm the one who re-wrote this current article and try to prevent vandalism to this as well as all fraternity and sorority articles aside from other things. Even if I wasn't a member, there is no such thing as ownership of this article so your "what goes on this page should not concern you" is a moot point and extremely prejudiced viewpoint. Of course everyone is entitled to their input but I just think that it was very hasty that you put the chapter list up before bothering to look at the talk page (or perhaps you did)? You never bothered to give your input before putting it up. Also, keep in mind that wikipedia is an onlune encyclopedia, it is NOT a rush tool. This has been the subject of some heated debate between members of other fraternties. Aside from that, the addition of chapter lists adds to the article size which in the future may prevent the addition of more pertinent information. Member or no, I don't see anything "crazy" with a list that can be easily accessed from the GHQ website. I agree with AriGold with a seperate list of Phi Delt chapters similarly to the way Sigma Nu has done Sigma Nu Chapters -- † Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 01:13, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I think a list of chapters would be useful. I also do not believe in the restriction of informaiton on the internet. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it is not important. I think the list should be on this page until it is at least available elsewhere on this site. That is my vote.


 * I never said a chapter list wasn't important. The question is to what extent is it important? Not every single detail in Wikipedia is included in regards to a person, place, etc. Moreover, not every fraternity/sorority article has a chapter list. I just think the inclusion of one is just vanity; important only to those who want to see their chapter on wikipedia. If you doubt this, look at all the anon contributors whose only contribution to wiki is to include a link to their chapter site. The inclusion of the list by Lzlatkin was done for all the wrong reasons. Wikipedia should never be used as a tool to recruit prospective members. If this were the case, articles such as Lambda Phi Epsilon and Pi Kappa Phi would not contain sections dedicated to hazing incidents. If people feel that strongly about it then I will try and make a seperate chapter list article in the near future -- † Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 16:28, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

What do u mean for all the wrong reasons? I put it up b/c it is information. there is no such thing as useless information on wikipedia. Any way, I'[m putting it up, seeing as your the only one who doesnt want it there. It should remain up untill more people say it shouldn't.


 * Umm, weren't you the one who said "truth is that when you look something up, the more information that comes up, the better. Furthermore, if someone from my university looks up Phi Delta Theta, I want them to see that there is a chapter at my university so they look into us more and hopefully join." Did you not read that part where I mentioned that Wikipedia should not be used as a recruitment tool? You should be very careful when you mention that "the more information the better". Sure you can put lists, stats, etc. but anyone is within their right to put up violations of risk management policies for fraternities on wiki so long as its newsworthy and provides more info (it's been done). You keep bringing up info, info, info but who, other than a member of the fraternity, sees the usefulness of a chapter list that doesn't even mention chapter name, or the founding date? If you're going to add the list, at least provide some relevant info that is beneficial to all wiki readers. You keep looking at this article from the view of a member and NOT from a view of non-member. I'm going to leave the list up not because I agree with it, but it amazes me how newer editors are so adamant in wanting something done rather than seek a compromise. (So 2 people, one new editor and another anon user who want the list speak for the majority?) I also want to avoid a petty Edit War. Also since you're new, please take a look at Wikipedia Etiquette in dealing with others in a compromise situation.  -- † Ðy§ep§ion †  Speak your mind 19:34, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

To do what ought to be done, but would not have been done unless I did it, I thought to be my duty. I created a Phi Delta Theta chapters page. Help me update all of the schools and add anything else you think might be relevant (ie year chartered, maybe add a section of former chapters). I linked all of the schools, sorted them by state and country, but I am sure some of the links are incorrect, so I could use some help. Now, every chapter is listed on wikipedia and the main PDT page isn't all cluttered up with a giant list. This should make everyone happy. Now help me out. AriGold 22:14, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Famous Alumni Section
From now on it would be best to add notable alumni who actually HAVE a wikipage instead of just listing them. Some of the recent additions I doubt will ever have wiki pages so I removed them. If someone wants to know more about the famous alumni they can just go to the Famous Phi.com website. What is the point in referring to the website and adding names from there to here? Does anyone intend to list the over 900 famous alumni mentioned on that website to here? Again, the majority of this article shouldn't consist of lists. -- † Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 00:56, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Repetitive?
How exactly is the following paragraph repetitive?:

"The 1880 convention held in Indianapolis is regarded as the most important of all the conventions the fraternity has ever held. It was during this convention that the ritual such as insignia and conduct during chapter meetings were created. Ceremonies such as memorial services and initiation were also created and standardized. The first General Council was formed with both Banta and Palmer taking membership as president and historian respectively."

The 1880 convention is regarded as the most important convention in Phi Delta Theta. Specific mention is made in both Havighurst's and Collet's Phi Delta Theta history. It's even included in many Phikeia manuals. I don't see the inclusion of this as being repetitive considering there is no other place in the article that the convention is mentioned. -- † Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 18:56, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * My mistake. I should've re-checked the history when I wrote it. -- † Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 19:04, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Alcohol Free Housing Five Year Progress Report?
Why is this in the article? It is incredibly slanted and sounds like a typical press release from GHQ with any sort of fair argument. Shouldn't it be taken out? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 149.43.112.36 (talk) 05:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

Pass GA
I have no hesitation at all in passing this article to GA status, it easily exceeds all the criteria for a GAC, and is in my opinion very nearly ready for featured article status. I had no issue with any of the GA criteria. Congratulations to anyone involved in the article's authorship, an excellent job. Many thanks - PocklingtonDan (talk) 18:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Role in the fraternity world - fraternity ties
I was wondering what people think about adding a "Historical ties to fraternities" subsection to the "Role in the fraternity world" section, and moving the info about the 'break-away' organizations (like the Phi Society) there, and adding info about other fraternities, such as Tau Kappa Epsilon, that started as a result of Phi Delta Theta. Bajenkins (talk) 01:56, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It's a good idea, as long as it can be cited with proper sources. Ðysepsion † Speak your mind 02:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I've added info about TKE and DKE/Sigma Chi, with sources. I'm sure someone can reword it to make it a little better.  Bajenkins (talk) 16:33, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I may have gone overboard in adding things. I found a lot of things I was not expecting.  The ties to DTD and PKT may not be notable enough to keep.  Feel free to remove them if you think this may be the case.Bajenkins (talk) 20:40, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Famous firsts
This list seems like it violates WP's synthesis. Other thoughts? Guiltlessgecko (talk) 22:12, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

The badge
The Description of the badge by Robert Morrison in, The Scroll of Phi Delta Theta, Volume 22, pg 466 By Phi Delta Theta Fraternity, should be added in the article. It gives a better understanding of the badge and gives insight to the reasons the symbols were picked. http://books.google.com/books?id=cOMSAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA466#v=onepage&q&f=false —Preceding unsigned comment added by Athens.nike (talk • contribs) 22:17, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

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