Talk:Phi Sigma Pi/Archive 1

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150417193655/http://www.phisigmapi.org/files/National%20Convention/gender_inclusion_resolution.pdf to http://www.phisigmapi.org/files/National%20Convention/gender_inclusion_resolution.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130424080534/http://phisigmapi.org/AboutUs/OurHistory/tabid/238/Default.aspx to http://www.phisigmapi.org/AboutUs/OurHistory/tabid/238/Default.aspx

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Should we Move this Article?
It recently dawned on me that this article isn't really about "Phi Sigma Pi." No, really... it's about "Phi Sigma Pi National Honor Fraternity." So I think we should move this article to a more appropriately named page, ie. Phi Sigma Pi National Honor Fraternity. Obviously, a redirect from Phi Sigma Pi (this page) is appropriate (and should be created by the move). It just seems best to use our full legal name as the article title. Thoughts? Arguments? PSPFreshBoy 19:48, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it's a matter of opinion; Phi Beta Kappa is Phi_Beta_Kappa_Society, but Omicron Delta Kappa is just Omicron_Delta_Kappa. Chanceofrainne (talk) 23:27, 29 November 2009 (UTC)Chanceofrainne (Beta Psi 408)

What this Article Should Be
The article on Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity has been rated as a Featured Article. Okay, all, this is what we're striving for. Note that no information is irrelevant, pictures complement the content and are not overused, there are no large tables (those that do exist are compact and constructed using wikitext, not HTML), the writing is polished and the content is well-developed, and references are properly cited.

We can build the article on Phi Sigma Pi into this, but it will take time and research. I suggest we remove most of the extraneous info (Awards and Chapters) and pare down the history into something reasonably manageable until we can find relevant generally accepted sources to cite. Basically, I'm saying that we should start small and work our way up, using this discussion page to come to an agreement on content BEFORE making changes.

Also, please sign your posts. If you are not a wikipedia user (go sign up), at least put your name/chapter or roll number. PSPFreshBoy 04:03, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The proposed approach seems reasonable to me. If there is no disagreement, I propose we removed the award and chapter listings on 3/27/07. Transforming this article into a featured article will be a challenge, but it's a worthy goal. PMGingrich 05:16, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm doing some revision of the more wordy sections now; I agree with people who are complaining that it reads like an ad. A lot of this stuff came word-for-word out of the Scholar's Province, which is fabulous I'm sure but doesn't really do what a Wikipedia page should do. Chanceofrainne (talk) 23:28, 29 November 2009 (UTC)Chanceofrainne (Beta Psi 408)


 * I agree that some of the lists are not needed on the main page, as this is a Wikipedia article and not the Phi Sigma Pi website. The list of recipients of the scholarships is not necessary on a Wikipedia page. Some wording still needs to be fixed; use of "our" in reference to the fraternity does not fit the correct use of third person on Wikipedia. Parts should be rewritten so they don't seem to have been copied from fraternity documents. Also, I agree with someone else on here that the National Vision section does not contribute to the overall article.  Sarroth (talk) 20:16, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Organization
Hi all. I think this page could be better organized. I changed the table with the "quick facts" to the standard fraternity/sorority template in use on Wikipedia. I think the entire section on awards (and probably scholarships too) doesn't really serve to clarify anything relevant in this article. I don't think the average person looking for information about Phi Sigma Pi will really get a lot out of knowing that Tau Chapter won a Torchia Award in 1968. In general, I don't think long lists of things like awards and/or lists of Chapters belong on main article pages. Any discussion before we trim the article down a little? PSPFreshBoy 15:14, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I tried to remove the chapter listing once before and was smacked down. Moving that and the awards to external pages might not be a bad idea.  I'd also argue that the article needs good copy editing throughout.  There's quite a bit of non-factual or POV content in there, and it could be condensed quite a bit.  Example:  "These men all had high ideals regarding the teaching profession and the social needs of the students."  Completely superfluous sentence and not something that can be cited or proven. Spin2cool 17:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I hear ya. I rewrote the intro--we'll see how long it stays. Could still use some polishing, but it's a slight improvement, and it's late--my brain is fried. I think we should follow the opener with a little bit of info on the founding, roots as a professional fraternity, membership (already started) and move into present-day stuff. Maybe mention our sponsorship of TFA. Need to figure out how to cite sources, particularly for the historical info--not sure the SP has an ISBN number, and can't think of another source to use. I think I have a picture of the HQ we could use to avoid copyright issues, though. PSPFreshBoy 03:38, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I moved the list of collegiate chapters to its own page. Cleans the main page up nicely, and the chapter list is still there. Anyone with extra time is welcome to go down the list of collegiate chapters and link the college names to their wiki pages. I'm not sure I have that much stamina tonight. Chanceofrainne (talk) 23:42, 29 November 2009 (UTC) Chanceofrainne (Beta Psi 408)

National Vision
This whole section reads like an advertisement - probably because it's copied word-for-word from the fraternity's handbook (search google). Does anyone want to re-word it, or should it be deleted? DeluxeReggae (talk) 09:28, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Since I didn't find a source for this section nor could I think of a way to make it more neutral I have moved it's original text to this discussion page.


 * "==National vision==
 * Phi Sigma Pi aspires to be the leader in the fraternity world, as evidenced by:


 * international chapter representation;
 * nationwide name recognition;
 * world class member education and services;
 * quality lifelong contacts and continued opportunities for member participation;
 * a nationwide network of employers and associations;
 * pioneering efforts in fraternity marketing, advertising, recruiting, communication, and mass media;
 * a persistence in fostering the integrity of Phi Sigma Pi;
 * a continued commitment to the ideals of scholarship, leadership, and fellowship through training and participating in supporting events."


 * Travza (talk) 00:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Old Discussion
Phi Sigma Pi is not an honor society, but is an honor *fraternity*, a distinction that we take very seriously. Since this is confusing to some, I left the student society categorization as an addendum.

--

I don't feel like the complete listing of chapters adds much to the page. It will quickly become outdated as new chapters are added, and just makes the reader scroll forever to reach other content, like the link to the webpage.

I think the information is better presented as a link to the external listing of chapters (which is always up to date).

--

I think that with the chapters listed on this website, it will give people a good idea where we are located without having to wander outside wikipedia. If you are only looking for the external website to our fraternity (a.k.a. www.phisigmapi.org) I do not think one needs to be told where to go. It is not that much trouble to update the 2 chapters that enter per year. I feel up to the challange, but if you want to get rid of it, by all means... I do believe that is the law of the lands here. -

Upon further review, the wikipedia philosopy is something like "the more info the better" and doesn't want to have to rely upon external pages. Thanks for putting in the effort to add the info.

I feel that the new additions to the history section need to be better organized! As it is right now, there is a lot to read in those sections, and I feel that it would be better fit in seperate subsections, what do you guys think?

Agreed - the history section needs to be broken up into subsections. It's just too long.

Well, I made the prelimiary divisions... I feel that the text is good, though a little verbose for my liking. NOTE: I found it... cheers -Josh

I cleaned up the History section a bit, just tried to make it more readable. I hope y'all like it, but of course please continue to make it better! Great job so far y'all! Mary from Tau 02:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Removed line in intro paragraph
"Phi Sigma Pi is not considered part of the "Greek System" and is excluded from any official Campus Fraternity or Sorority activities registered with the Interfraternity Council."

I removed this line because it seems like something that may vary per university, and is not necessarily set in stone across all campuses. Also its wording ("excluded from any official... activities") is subtle derision towards the Fraternity, in my opinion. Revert or reword if you feel/find otherwise. Devmage 00:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)