Talk:Philip Guarino

SMOTJ
Stalwart111, you've done some amazing things here and if this article survives, it will be thanks to your overhaul. Can I discuss this section with you: "Guarino founded the "U.S. Priory" of the Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of Jerusalem (O.S.M.T.J.) in 1973.[7][8]"

Due to Editorial wars on the page in that link, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_the_Temple_of_Jerusalem, that statement is factually incorrect and it's attributing Philip Guarino to a totally different organization then he belongs to. I'm suggesting we unlink that and replace "Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of Jerusalem" with the more accurate, "Ordre Souverain et Militaire du Temple de Jérusalem". Otherwise, the article is attributing Philip with founding a totally different group, namely SMOTJ.org. That group would also be upset to see that confusion in there as they claim their start in the US to 1962 by their founder, Crolian William Edelen.

In other words, the current "Ordo Supremus Militaris Templi Hierosolymitani", is broken up into 3 groups today:

1) www.OSMTH.net - Is the original with it's seat in Portugal and still under Regent de Sousa Fontes, also referred to as "OSMTH Regency".

2) www.OSMTJ.net with it U.S. Priory at www.TheKnightsTempalr.org - In a 1970 election, General Zdrojewski defeated the previous Regent de Sousa Fontes. However, half of the organization stayed with Regent Fontes and now you have the first split. Unlike the other two, this group goes by, the name OSMTJ or "Ordre Souverain et Militaire du Temple de Jérusalem."  Its U.S. Grand Priory was started in 1973 by Philip Guarino that is found at www.TheKnightsTempalr.org

Up to this point it was simple, and after 1970, the original group went by OSMTH, and the General Zdrojewski group went by OSMTJ. Then in 1995 you had a 3rd split from OSMTH Regency Fontes group that is the following:

3) From the 3rd split in 1995: www.OSMTH.org and www.SMOTJ.org are together, the first being the international branch and the 2nd being the American branch of the same organization. This group was part of OSMTH Regency and split off in 1995.  Their United States Grand Prior was founded in 1962 by Crolian William Edelen.  Here's were it get's confusing, even though they call their organization OSMTH, Their U.S. Branch calls itself SMOTJ ("Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of Jerusalem" ) and has a TradeMark on the name "Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of Jerusalem."  That trademark can be found here: http://www.trademarkia.com/the-sovereign-military-order-of-the-temple-of-jerusalem-74449931.html This group is the one that has NGO observer status with the United Nations and lots of lawyers and retired U.S. Military Officers.  In 1995, this group successfully sued the group they split from, and made the original group stop using the name, "Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of Jerusalem."

So you can see how no other group can refer to themselves in the U.S. as the, "Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of Jerusalem." So we can not attribute Philip Guarino to the "Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of Jerusalem," as that now only describes one of those groups that he did not belong to. That Wikipedia article found here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_the_Temple_of_Jerusalem is very inaccurate, probably due to editorial wars of each group wanting to seem the most legitimate.

I belong to two of the aforementioned groups, the one at OSMTJ.net/TheKnightsTempalr.org and the one at OSMTH.org/SMOTJ.org. I believe myself objective in my history of the three groups and hold no ill will toward the 3rd group. Dr. B. Jones (talk) 04:46, 8 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll be perfectly frank, not much of that makes a lot of sense to me. The basic gist, if I have it right, seems to be that he started an organisation that shared a name with another organisation but his organisation isn't that organisation and he subsequently trademarked the name of the original organisation to prevent others from using it even though he didn't, technically, use it. Is that right? Ha ha. Actually, it doesn't matter. What matters is what we can verify in reliable sources. So unless someone has gone to the trouble of independently documenting what you have summarised above, it's probably a moot point anyway. As interesting as it might have been and as important as it might or might not be to you (I make no judgement either way, but you seem to be at peace with all the various organisations anyway), I still don't think his founding that organisation is what makes him notable. That part of his life hasn't received a lot of coverage. If what is there now accurately reflects what happened:


 * ...then that is good enough for me. The sources cited say he founded an organisation; what we call it or what we link to (or don't link to) internally is really fairly inconsequential. Stalwart 111  01:03, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your understanding Stalwart. Dr. B. Jones (talk) 10:32, 9 October 2013 (UTC)