Talk:Philip Taylor Kramer

6FU episode connection
Material for possible addition to article: Wasn't there an episode of Six Feet Under that contained a "death opening" that closely patterened Brann's story? Did the writers know about it? I'll check when I get the chance... Ellsworth (talk) 01:24, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Conspiracy theories template
Does this page need a Conspiracy theories template? Breawycker (talk) 22:53, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Some inaccuracies
The claim that he left a voice message that said "I’m going to kill myself. And I want everyone to know O.J. Simpson is innocent. They did it" is a myth. In my research for the Skeptic Magazine article covering the disappearance before his remains were located by a hiker, the contents of all voice messages made by Kramer at the time were part of the official investigation files and that comment was never in among the transcripts.

What were among the transcripts were numerous comments about having to hide behind the walls and other comments attributed to his sleep deprivation which eventually killed him when he drove his van off a cliff. He and his father literally believed they had discovered a way to transport matter across a distance just like the Star Trek transporter -- Kramer's own words.

The belief was part of the onset of dementia caused by sleep deprivation which fed on itself in a cycle. The more he suffered from the lack of sleep, the more he had become convinced he had made a breakthrough discovery, the less he was capable of sleeping.

The quote about killing himself is not accurate. He informed his family that he was going to endeavor to appear to have killed himself so that "them" that he believed was going to come after he and his father to "silence" his discovery would refrain from doing so but also, according to the transcripts, refrain from harming his family. He never stated outright that he was going to kill himself.

The O. J. Simpson part never happened and there is nothing remotely in accord to the Simpson trial in any of the transcripts from his voice messages, nothing about Simpson being discussed with his family either.

I spoke with the daughter who had at the time been traveling around the United States looking for Kramer after his disappearance, going to places where people were claiming to have seen him. From the brief telephone discussion she indicated that Kramer's onset of sleep-deprived-induced dementia was sudden and unexpected, his behavior a day or two prior to his airport pick-up effort was highly divergent from his normal behavior.

Point being, the quotes attributed are wrong. Damotclese (talk) 02:44, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia depends on information being verifiable. It seems that the quotations are being attributed to this person through published sources.  Are you disputing that the cited sources are attributing the quotations to the article's subject, or are you saying that you have done unpublished original research which gave information which differs from the published sources?   Blue Rasberry    (talk)   07:32, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Greetings, BR! I'm saynig that the references offered are merely inaccurate. I was involved in the aftermath of the disappearance, I spoke with the daughter, spoke with the Senator's people, and finally published in Skeptic Magazine Volume 4, number 2, dated 1996 in an article titled "Philip Taylor Kramer: Is He In A Godda Da Vida?" (Which is also included in the references, I see.)
 * One of the 911 calls did state, "This is a Philip Taylor Kramer and I'm going to kill myself" however previous calls to his family stated that he was going to try to "lead them away" from his family, fake his own death for his own safety and that of his family -- context that is missing from the referenced source, probably deliberately since it sells better to quote inaccurately or incompletly.
 * The O. J. Simpson phone message simply never happened, it does not exist in any of the case files that were afforded to my research and eventual article, neither was the Senator's offices given any such transcripts. Indeed, considering the Senator's unfortunate race-oriented exposures, he or his staff would have tabbed the transcript with a priority marker had it existed, I expect.
 * The issue is that the myth has been growing since virtually February 12th, 1996 when he disappeared. A great many legends have been tacked on to the overall mythos and the quotes referenced in the article are simlpy inaccurate or fabrications stemming from the urge to build upon a fascinating, conspiracy-minded-prone event.
 * It's a curious phenomena that the people actually involved in events stumble across Wikipedia articles about the events and find skepticism when those involved contradict "published sources" which are considered of better quality than eye witnesses. :) I encountered the same phenomena in my work during the aftermath of the McMartin Daycare "Satanic Panic" phenomena, results of which were included in "Occult Crime: A Law Enforcement Primer ( http://www.holysmoke.org/report/index.htm ) Though directly involved, efforts to correct inaccurates in Wikipedia's coverage of that fiasco are also met with skepticism on the belief that "published sources" trump those who were directly involved.
 * Still, it doesn't matter to me, I don't care enough to bother. Damotclese (talk) 23:06, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This is correct, Kramer did leave a message saying that he was going to kill himself however that was intended as a ruse under the sleep deprivation-driven delusional belief that "Them" was monitoring his telephone conversations. I worked with his sister and with Congressman James Anthony Traficant Jr. on the investigation in to Kramer's death, and while I did not examine the remains nor the vehicle nor the canyon crash site, I was part of the team that backtracked his behavior months prior to his disappearance.
 * He fell asleep behind the wheel of his van after suffering weeks of sleep deprivation as his behavior deteriorated. His death was officially ruled a vehicle accident caused by lack of sleep, not suicide. (Which is why I just removed the category that was added yesterday of performers who have committed suicide, the closing report on Kramer's death ruled out suicide.)
 * And yes, Skeptic Magazine published by The Skeptics Society and edited by Professor of History Michael Shermer published on this subject before the Congressman's death yet prior to the discovery of Kramer's remains behind the wheel of his vehicle. The article was written by Fredric L. Rice who has run The Skeptic Tank on line for some 25 years going back to the DARPANet days in an effort to address the supposition of paranormal aspects of the "Star Trek-like" beliefs of having developed a matter transmitter technology which Kramer and his father believed to have a science-based breakthrough for.
 * Kramer did leave a number of voice messages behind with his family, stating such things as he was going to have to "hide behind the walls" because he and his father honestly believed that they had discovered a science breakthrough that vague "Them" would try to stop from being developed and released to the world. The "discovery" was the result of shoddy science and lead to the inability to sleep, being the root cause summation of the cause of death.
 * Incidentally, I questioned the hiker who discovered and reported the remains to determine whether the witness disturbed anything at the crash site. Also soil samples inside and around the vehicle were obtained as were samples of vegetation under and around the vehicle, including dead vegetation, and in effort to confirm the duration of time that the vehicle had been there under the possibility that Kramer had been held prisoner by foreign national forces while being questioned and then was murdered and shoved off of the road behind the wheel by his captors -- which was a possibility suggested by the Congressman.
 * Mr. Rice should have published a follow-up article describing such details after the remains were located however Skeptic Magazine's editor Mr. Michael Shermer apparently declined since to my knowledge Skeptic Magazine never published such a follow-up. SoftwareThing (talk) 14:20, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

It was NOT suicide
The cause of death was accidental, fell asleep behind the wheel, he did not kill himself, his van was found by a hiker at the base of a canyon. Please do not put suicide as the probable or supposed cause, that is NOT supported by the documents. As the Los Angeles Times put it he was "sleep sky" due to mounting paranoia verging upon delusion resulting in a series of phone calls which Kramer believed were being monitored by "Them." SoftwareThing (talk) 00:06, 31 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Once again, the cause of death was not suicide, there is no evidence, no reference, no citation from any coroner that supports that claim. Stop claiming that it was suicide. SoftwareThing (talk) 15:15, 12 October 2020 (UTC)