Talk:Phoenix Force (comics)/Archive 1

Spider-Man possessed by Phoenix Force?
There's a snippet in the entry about someone being the first male to host the Phoenix Force, though I could have sworn that, in an old Spider-Man comic, the Phoenix Force possessed him very briefly. I wouldn't know how to verify this information so I'm hoping someone else can.


 * You're probably thinking of Spider-Man #25, the cover of which teases a "Spider-Phoenix". The Phoenix in that comic was actually a robot, and the "Spider-Phoenix" was Spidey using its power source as a makeshift flamethrower. -Sean Curtin 03:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Retcon
In the original Phoenix Saga, Jean was Phoenix. The idea that the Phoenix Force created a separate clone of Jean Grey was a retcon.

It also happens to be just about the most famous retcon in comics, so it really deserves some mention here. As it is, this article implies that Jean not being Phoenix was the way it was all along. Ken Arromdee 03:24, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Quote from the TV show
User:Aidol keeps inserting a quote from the TV show, which is a bastardized version of what originally appeared in Uncanny X-Men #134. Because it's not correct, and because quotes don't belong here anyway, I feel it should be removed. Neocoronis has removed it as well. Can we get some more opinions? CovenantD 15:45, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Removal sounds like a good call. --InShaneee 19:59, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Get rid of it. It's awkward and inconsequential. --Chris Griswold 20:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Revert
Reverted 128.218.186.166's edit. While it seems to be a good-faith effort, it removed some relevant information and didn't seem to add anything in particular. We can discuss it here, if you disagree. Icewolf34 18:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Merge from Phoenix God
Per WP:COMIC guidelines, Ultimate character articles should be merged and contained w/in their main universe counterparts. --Newt ΨΦ 13:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Survey

 * Merge. See discussion below. --Newt ΨΦ 13:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge per Newt :-- Chris Griswold | talk |  contribs  02:30, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge. I agree with Newt; this is Ultimate Phoenix. Anarkeya 18:05, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge.--Gonzalo84 05:39, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge. ~ZytheTalk to me! 13:49, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

 * The new article offers nothing but plot summary, and nothing that this article can't offer. --Newt ΨΦ 13:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Dark Phoenix never was Jean Grey?
After reading the line "Dark Phoenix was never Jean Grey", I thought, "that isn't really completely correct anymore." I know the original Byrne retcon made the original Phoenix an alien imposter, but hasn't that retcon recently been retconned itself by Grant Morrison? In the "Here Comes Tomorrow" arc, Jean Grey returns as Phoenix in some kind of "Phoenix Egg" (ie: coccoon) in the exact spot Dark Phoenix died on the moon. Is Jean the person who died on the moon (not in her original body)? It seems that Jean dies and returns in a cocoon (ie: Phoenix Egg) in the spot she died, whether it be Jamaica Bay or the Blue Area of the Moon. I know Morrison isn't a "hit-you-over-the-head" writer, but this seems pretty straightforward. Years earlier, Claremont tried to fix the retcon in Classic X-Men by having the force created body transfer Jean's entire soul into the new body (except a little spark). Anyway, I think these developments should at least be addressed in the article. PS - in the powers section, it reads that the Phoenix Force creates an egg when it dies. This has only been shown with Jean Grey - is it actually a Phoenix trait or a Jean Grey trait? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jpjohn1980 (talk • contribs) 04:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

Evolution
I heard once that the phoenix is merely the ultimate in human evolution and that anyone can reach it. The first one was a sorcerer thousands of years ago.
 * That was probably Feron, but different writers have interpreted the Phoenix Force in different ways. Sometimes it's a cosmic entity, others have described it as part of the character. Endsong was an attempt to resolve all these conflicting ideas. -- Noclevername 06:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Spoilers
user:A Man In Black removed part of the discussion of X3 from the article stating that the reason for that is to reduce spoilers. Is this Wikipedia policy? I can't find anything on it in WP:SPOILER. I would like to keep a large part of the original discussion in, because it differs so much from previous portrayals of Phoenix. Any objections? C mon 22:12, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * They're irrelevant spoilers, which is why I removed them. The Phoenix Force is an interstellar entity from which Jean Grey derives her powers in the comics and animated series. There's no such entity in the movie, so let's not spoil the movie if we don't have to. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree, they are not irrelevant, because they show an adaption of the Phoenix-theme, that it is different from previous portrayals is the exact reason why this should be included in a more lenghty discussion! The reason you cite, "not spoiling the story", is not part of wikipedia policy, while including all relevant information is sort of the purpose of this encyclopaedic project! As a compromise I will include a more lenghty discussion of the adaption of Phoenix in the movie, with less spoilers of the story line, okay? C mon 07:08, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * We don't need the same spoiler plot summary in three different places. The place for this detailed summary is either Jean Grey or X-Men 3. This article is about an extraterrestrial entity that doesn't appear in that movie, and is referred to only peripherally. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:51, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * We need to discuss this here, because this is an alternative view to Phoenix! And Phoenix is the core of the movie! I already tried to compromise, by trimming it down, so please show some cooperative spirit and let's include a piece that's longer than you want and shorter than I want and comprimise. C mon 07:53, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I think what we need is a 3rd opinion to help. A Man In Black has a point, this article is about the cosmic entity, and should pertain to it, but the movie Phoenix is, although not the cosmic entity, another version of Phoenix, as C mon said. The article lists the Phoenix from several different aspects, so its only fair that the Movie Phoenix be given more information on the page as well. Of course, as C mon suggested, it doesnt have to be huge, a full summary of Movie Phoenix should be on the X3 or Jean page, but a single sentence description of Movie Phoenix on this page is rediculously small, even if this isnt its primary article. Try to comprimise and give it a bit more depth at least. DemonWeb 13:39, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Agree, with the understanding that it should focus on the diffs between the comic book Phoenix and the movie version. CovenantD 15:32, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The first comic version was originally Jean Grey, described before and during the DPSaga as having reached (and been corrupted by) her ultimate psionic potential; presumably, this was Claremont's original intention. It was only later that editorial fiat declared the Phoenix a separate entity, so the movie version is actually closer to the original Phoenix. So keeping it in is not irrelevant, it merely shows a different interpretation of the same character.  Noclevername 22:06, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Phoenixattacked.JPG
Image:Phoenixattacked.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 06:08, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

stepford cuckoos
can someone please add a pic of the phoenix in the stepford cuckoos from phoenix warsong i mean they are phoenix hosts.--Cerebra 11:25, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Galactus.jpg
Image:Galactus.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 18:36, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:X-Men ep-32.jpg
Image:X-Men ep-32.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 03:05, 12 February 2008 (UTC)