Talk:Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport

Terminal 3
I updated the Airlines and destinations section to show JetBlue being in Terminal 3 North. JetBlue's webpage has the update http://help.jetblue.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/webisapi.dll?New,Kb=askBlue,case=obj(400564). I've seen Hawaiian up at Terminal 3 North (possibly Gate 25) but I can't find any proof they've moved. Once AA moves to Terminal 4 in the next month or two I can't see them keeping T3 South open for just one daily flight for Hawaiian so that could be the driver. I'm headed to HNL in March so I can personally verify then but until then I've left HA in T3 South pending some citation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cageyjames (talk • contribs) 16:28, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Midwest Airlines operated by Frontier Airlines
Under the Midwest Airlines operated by Frontier Airlines, Frontier needs brackets because it is a topic on Wikipedia. I don't care if they are already on there once, please leave! --ZH 22:41, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Whenever there is one below the mutliple entry under the same carrier, one 1 needs to be linked. This will avoid needless linking since there is already a link fpor Frontier Airlines already. 74.183.173.237 (talk) 06:46, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Got it! Thank you, I fixed it :) --ZH 03:33, 25 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZHoover123 (talk • contribs)

Miami
Miami service is NOT seasonal. It is clearly bookable on AA.com year-round! Please fix. Somebody keeps changing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thatthat (talk • contribs) 20:38, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You are correct. Services begin November 20, 2009 and I can't seem to find a date without a flight after that days. HkCaGu (talk) 03:24, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * please provide some sources Cptnono (talk) 03:28, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I just looked through the AA PC schedule. Airline schedules are acceptable sources. HkCaGu (talk) 03:38, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * do you have a link at least?Cptnono (talk) 03:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Schedules of different forms are on the AA website. HkCaGu (talk) 03:55, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Help other editors out and meet Wikipedia's verification guidelines by providing a link, will ya?Cptnono (talk) 03:57, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

AA announced new service routes here: http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/newServiceRoutes.jsp&anchorEvent=false and I believe the Miami-Phoenix route is under the seasonal routes section on that page. Snoozlepet (talk) 05:03, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much! Yes, someone keeps making it seasonal and I keep chaning it back to year-round with service beginning November 20. --ZH 02:48, 11 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZHoover123 (talk • contribs)

Airport Diagram
Can someone updated the FAA airport diagram. The current diagram is missing the new Concourse D at Terminal 4 and the new control tower.

Most recent from FAA webpage Lbart0725 (talk) 14:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Unique
Why does this article refer to Sky Harbor as being a unique name to Phoenix? There have been other airports with the same name. Las Vegas' Henderson Airport, for instance, used to be called Sky Harbor. Drgitlow 06:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Unknown, since I've been to two other airports called Sky Harbor Airport. I'm removed the "unique" bit.  -- Kaszeta 19:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Layout
I made some minor changes to the Washington Dulles, Cincinatti, and Phoenix Sky Harbor airport pages. It did not add any new info however I think it will make the text easier to read. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.228.1.244 (talk) 22:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

History
I believe this article would be much improved if a history section was added. If anyone could help with this it would be greatly appreciated. Sox23 04:05, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Domestic/International
While separating domestic and international may increase legibility in airlines with many routes from the airport, people seem to be going a little overboard. Mesa dba US Exp has around 4 or 5 international flights, and these were separated out. I combined them back in. Only separate them out if the destination list really merits it (CO at EWR, UA at ORD, even the mainline US flights at PHX). DB (talk) 04:19, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok I have physically gone onto AirTran's and American's web sites and began making bookings from Phoenix to Milwaukee on AirTran and that is a seasonal route but it does not begin until November 19th and someone keeps deleting the information so it just says seasonal but it hasn't begun. Also American Airlines route to Miami is NOT seasonal. The service is year-round and begins November 20th and someone keeps deleting that to and that is incorrect. - ZHoover123  October 6, 09 7:18pm
 * Adding sources will help. There are usually press releases (primary OK here) or news. Please see Verifiability.Cptnono (talk) 02:23, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I've tried adding sources and they still are being deleted and now the page is blocked so I can't do anything.--ZHoover123 (talk) 02:33, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It looks like you were adding information but not inline citations for verification. Let me know if you need me to provide some links or a hand. Also, it looks like the page is locked due to your edit warring. The best thing to do when someone reverts your edit (especially more than once) is to take it to the talk page. We already have discussions here (no one has responded to my suggestions) and at the airport project's page. It is good to see that you are including so much information but since you aren't following protocol it caused confusion.Cptnono (talk) 02:33, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I did add Southwest Airlines as a focus city for Phoenix (PHX) I didn't realize it was so controversial so I will discontinue adding it until we are sure it belongs. But the AirTran Airways service to Milwaukee (MKE) is seasonal but begins November 19, 2009. And the American Airlines service to Miami (MIA) is not seasonal and begins November 20, 2009.--ZHoover123 (talk) 02:38, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It was reverted since the Airport project thinks the sky will fall if focus city is added. I think it is silly. I am seeking expansion to the prose here along with an updated infobox (via their template or someone with the skills to create one for here). Can you pull up static verificaiton on the web (something stated on their website, a press release, or news coverage)? I don't doubt it and would be happy with someone saying it at the counter but editors will remove it without a source.Cptnono (talk) 03:15, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I 100% agree. It is immature for editors to just block the page because it hasn't been edited their way. I think the Wikipedia page for Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport should be unblocked. They have it blocked for a month? That is rediculous I think. --ZHoover123 (talk) 03:21, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The page is protected because of edit warring by an IP who fails to take it to the airport's talk page and the project talk pgae. Best way is to start a discussion regarding to whether or not a focus city should be added and get consensus from there. 74.183.173.237 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC).

Mexicana Terminal
Wouldn't Mexicana automatically use Terminal 4 North, as international flights? I don't think that's really "terminal to be determined." Instead, it should just say something like "pending government approval" but be placed under Terminal 4 as a future service, rather than terminal TBD. 207.225.191.13 10:07, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes that makes perfect sense...Mexicana was only in that category because AirTran was there until a few days ago and their status was TBD, and the user who added Mexicana to that section probably did because it said "new airlines and destinations"...I will move Mexicana to T4 (Concourse B) and clarify that they are awaiting gov't approval. Sox 23 21:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

-Actually, international flights aren't required to use Terminal 4. Air Canada, for example, used Terminal 2 until recently. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.109.161.60 (talk) 18:13, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Air Canada is not international. See United States border preclearance. HkCaGu (talk) 19:14, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Air Canada is international. They may have United States border preclearance but they offer service out of the United States so it would be considered international and was moved to Terminal 4 North. --ZHoover123 (talk) 03:25, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Terminal 1
The article (and some of the sources) mention that Terminal 1 was demolished in 1990. However, Terminal 1 operations continued until the very day Terminal 4 opened. I know from experience that it took awhile before Terminal 1 (and the temporary America West concourse on Terminal 3) was actually demolished. Traffic still routed by the building in the summer of 1991. Anyone have a source for the actual demolition date of the terminal? -- Kaszeta 19:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Handcuff incident
The random death of one individual does not belong in an airport article. Graham Wellington 15:49, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. What is encyclopedic about that? While tragic, I think it belongs in wikinews. Sox 23 21:14, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * * Agreed it does not belong in an airport article Daltnpapi4u 23:20, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * * Disagree! This is relevant due to brutality of PHX Sky Harbor Airport Police. It should be documented. --Inetpup 03:48, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Document her case in Wikinews, where it belongs. Graham Wellington 17:33, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * * Agree. remove from article. --Matt 21:11, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * * Matty, are you saying that just because I contributed to the article? Just want to know that you're being fair.  Thanks! --Inetpup 05:22, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No. It's not police brutality, it smacks of recentism, and just doesn't seem notable enough. --Matt 07:10, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

A link to the Wikinews article should be put in External Links.--76.182.88.254 19:32, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Is that you Inetpup? I hope not. No mention of Gotbaum's death should be made in the article, whether it be in the main article or as an external link to the news story. Should we include every heart attack, drug overdose or suicide that happens in an airport? Thousands of people die in airports each year. Graham Wellington 14:08, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * No, it wasn't me. I haven't touched this article since our argument.  And I have no desire to have another argument over this issue.  Did you check their IP address location 76.182.88.254? --Inetpup 05:22, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

That was me, I don't have an account and only help with Wikipedia rarely although I want to get more involved eventually. (My roommate has thousands of edits and I get tips from her.) I think that a WikiNews link should have been added to the external links. This was not one of thousands of deaths a year, but had national attention and a particular focus on this airport. It would be informative and would help improve this article for readers who want to learn more about this aiport and what has happened there in its history. There was also TONS of coverage on the story in New York City, the nation's biggest media market. There usually aren't WikiNews articles or major media coverage in NYC of heart attacks and drug overdoses in the airport... it's pretty clear there's a difference here.76.182.88.254 21:05, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Just to throw in my two cents, I agree that this incident should NOT be included in the article. The incident might have been newsworthy, but the fact that it happened at Phoenix Sky Harbor is of minor note. She wasn't famous and there is no foul play (at least, from what we know so far). Tanthalas39 00:39, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

ATA Photo
Why does this keep getting deleted from the article. This photo has been in the article for over a year and keeps being deleted for no reason. Sox 23 16:14, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Accidents
I am aware of two major accidents that occured at Sky Harbor, the first was a business jet that crash landed and ended up in a firey mess in the 24th street employee parking lot. I believe that one was in 1992... was also on an episode of "COPS". The second was an America West Airbus A320, within the last ten years, that left the runway after landing and lost it's nose gear. Airplane was N635AW. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.104.211.31 (talk) 01:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Without knowing what the author means by "major", I would be hesitant to change what is there. I suspect the author meant fatalities from the destruction of an aircraft. However, if not, the incidents you describe are noteworthy along with the fatality of a mentally challenged individual that had "ran" onto the runway. There are probably more, but let's clarify the definition first. Inomyabcs (talk) 07:25, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Southwest hub
While I was not the original IP user who made the change, I decided to look into it based on the Vandalism report. Southwest (the corporation) is based out of Phoenix. Phoenix is number three in number of daily flights for Southwest, and Southwest has more gates in Phoenix than anywhere else. Yes, Southwest doesn't technically operate on a hub and spoke model, but the term hub is fuzzy; to an airline insider Southwest doesn't qualify, but my impression has been that most people, when speaking of a hub, simply mean any airport where the single airline either:

1. Constitutes a larger percentage of the total flights than all other airlines (or most other airlines in the case of shared hubs)

2. Focuses a large percentage of their own flights (for smaller airlines where they don't have the numbers to meet the first criteria, but nevertheless focus their resources on a small number of airports)

If you don't want to keep the change, that's okay, but trying to block the user for "vandalism" without even having a discussion on why he made the change is going too far. -ShadowRangerRIT (talk) 19:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. I believe an airline hub is exactly what you said it was and Southwest is the airport's 2nd largest operator and Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport is the 3rd largest departure point for Southwest Airlines. I take that as they do occupy a hub there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZHoover123 (talk • contribs) 02:30, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hub and focus city are airline-centered concepts. It doesn't matter what an airline's ranking is at one airport. Long-time discussion on Southwest's page has determined Southwest has no hub. HkCaGu (talk) 02:59, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * But Southwest Airlines does have a focus city at (PHX) according to the Wikipedia page for Southwest Airlines and to Southwest's web site. So I think under the airport's information table there should be an option to fill in if an airline has a focus city there too, not just a hub. --ZHoover123 (talk) 03:11, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess this is the first can of worms opened by having a "hub" field in airport articles. It was designed to transfer information from airline articles as a cross-reference. There's really no "obligation" to discuss it here. And this latest IP is like a previous one who also frequented PHX who would be talked to so many times but would never communicate with anyone. In both cases, it's everybody versus one IP (an obvious consensus). After a number of warnings, what else are we supposed to do? HkCaGu (talk) 20:17, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed, on examining the history further, it is likely this guy just got his dynamic IP reassigned and continued the same changes. The definition of vandalism is a little fuzzy around the edges, like when a person is making good faith changes to the point of excess.  You might try reporting the page on the edit warring page/user IP (including the note on the similar IP having made the edits going back weeks before). If he gets blocked due to violating the edit war policies, at least it will clearly be for the right reason. -ShadowRangerRIT (talk) 20:34, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Found another, possibly better report location (since this isn't really an edit war so much as it is a single disruptive "reverter"): Three Revert Rule notice board. -ShadowRangerRIT (talk) 20:40, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that this IP was the samas the IP who continue to add NRT to US Airways. It was also discussed that NRT should not be listed here once a start date is confirmed. Also, he fails to discuss this one. I think this discussion needs to go the Southwest Airlines talk page on whether or not Southwest operate on a hub-spoke system. 74.183.173.237 (talk) 02:20, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I saw this listed at Third opinion. If it is not a hub per the sources it should not be listed in the info box as such. However, Template:Infobox Airport/doc could be updated to include similar terms. It looks like PHX is a focus city and not a hub. I could be incorrect and it could instead be a secondary hub but this should also be sourced. Take this opportunity to fill out the prose completely and get that template updated. Nothing wrong with having a few extra lines of data for readers who prefer browsing through the infoboxes. You could instead add a footnote but that might look sloppy.Cptnono (talk) 06:38, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that'll work....whatever change is made is okay with me. We'll leave it as a focus city for now until the article is unprotected. Until then, we need an employee from Southwest Airlines to decide whether or not if PHX is a hub. 74.183.173.237 (talk) 21:26, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * According to Wikipedia (unsourced though) Southwest does not use hubs. Even if they did, we would need a documented source saying PHX is one.Cptnono (talk) 00:10, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, i found the information from Southwest's website in their company as seen here http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/press/factsheet.html#About%20the%20Company it describes itself as a "point to point" carrier. But I'm not sure if its the same as a hub operation. 74.183.173.237 (talk) 02:40, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Does not look like it is. Airline hub explains it OK.Cptnono (talk) 10:08, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

A discussion was also started here at WP:AIRPORTS. Please put your thoughts on that page as well. Snoozlepet (talk) 03:37, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Options

 * Expand the lead and prose w/ info about Southwest (this should be done anyways)
 * Create an infobox in the article with the focus city parameter instead of using a Wikipedia wide template. The source is and some tips and a fun essay can be found here.Cptnono (talk) 10:19, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * There is already a discussion started at WP:AIRPORTS regarding this but it just going to cause more edit wars. Snoozlepet (talk) 03:28, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * They have discussed in general before and I started a discussion that was largely ignored for sometime. The primary concern is that people will start bickering at other airport articles. I don't care what people bicker about. If it isn't sourced it gets removed and if it is sourced then there should be no worries. A large enough percentage of carriers to not use a spoke and weheel system but instead use a point to point with a focus on certain cities. It is really simple. For this article, something needs to be done. Addiing focus city in the hub's field looks silly so that is not an option. It needs to be its own paremeter and/or expanded upon in the prose.Cptnono (talk) 03:35, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion
How about we put Southwest Airlines in the hub parameter but instead put Focus City in parenthesis next to it. Southwest does have "hub-like" operations but they do not classify their airports as hubs. Also, Southwest does use the "focus city" airports as connections. However, the only thing we need to find out if Southwest Airlines uses hubs or not. That's probably the question/dispute is mainly about (in my opinion). Snoozlepet (talk) 19:22, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've been against that since it might look silly and because I was trying to keep people at the airport project from going nuts. I do believe the infobox policies are not being followed (it is supposed to be dynamic and strict consistency is not expected) so really could care less what they want at this point if the discussion is going to be ignored since people don't want to deal with possible deiscussions on other pages in the future. The aesthetic part of it doesn't matter if others disagree so I'll see if there actually is a source available.Cptnono (talk) 02:07, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Not a focus city (sources)
Per the above suggestion I started poking around. Sources say Chicago Midway and Denver are for sure focus cities. Not one RS I found could verify that Phoenix is. There are a few nonreliable sources that look like they could have adding Wikipeida like content (mirrors or just user contributed). Without valid sources this conversation should be over.Cptnono (talk) 03:11, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * So, if its not a focus city then is it a hub?? Snoozlepet (talk) 03:32, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * They don't use a hub system but a point to point system. They have alot of planes go in and out. I think they also have offices in the city but that doesn't mean it is a focus city. I also believe (need to double check) that it is #3 for them. It is not OK for us to asusme it is a focus city (that is what the Airport Project is crying about) so we have to keep inline with Wikipeida's verifiability guideline. If a source says it I think we should include but from what i have seen they specifically say other cities are focus cities without mentioning this one.Cptnono (talk) 05:24, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Service begin/end/resume dates
I notice a lot of service entries list begin/end/resume dates. Problem is, they don't say what year. If it's a recurring period of service, it should say either seasonal or specify the season(s) (I'd avoid specifying literal date ranges; they change too often and are too verbose). If it's a one time change, these should be marked with years (ideally in ISO format, e.g. 2009-11-02), so after the switch editors know they can remove either the whole entry (for end) or only the date tag (for begin/resume). I suspect some of these begin/end/resume notices are years out of date, but because no one included the year or a source, it would require a search of the revision history to figure it out (and that's assuming they meant a one-time change, not a recurring seasonal route offering). I'm considering removing every existing entry with an end date and removing the begin/resume tags to get a clean slate. After all, worst case scenario the article is wrong for a couple months, but becomes right as the various dates pass. Do other editors agree? -ShadowRangerRIT (talk) 18:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

AirTran & American Service From Phoenix

 * Someone, I don't know who keeps chaning Milwaukee as a seasonal destination for AirTran. Yes, it is seasonal but does not begin until November 19. Also, American Airlines service to Miami is NOT seasonal, it is clearly booked as year-round nonstop destination on aa.com and doesn't resume until November 19. Whoever this is, please stop and change it so people are reading the correct information because you have the page blocked.--ZH 02:52, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Edit request
Hi, I only as that Template:Major US Airports be added at the bottom. Major US Airports Thanks,  Ishwasafishclick here!!! 20:03, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ Skier Dude  ( talk ) 02:42, 23 October 2009 (UTC)`

Another edit request, US Airways Express service to Wichita ends November 1. Thanks! Snoozlepet (talk) 05:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * So what do you want me to do? Remove Wichita from the list completely? Or something else? &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:33, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Actaully, it needs to be "Wichita [ends November 1]" with the "ends November 1" with brackets beside it. Snoozlepet (talk) 13:45, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

And Colorado Springs is ending in 2010 for mesa airlines —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.125.234.52 (talk) 10:31, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

editprotected Remove Midwest Airlines and Midwest Connect as they ended today. Also, remove Wichita from US Airways Express as it ended November 1. Snoozlepet (talk) 21:11, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 12:51, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Also, remove "begins November 3" from Frontier Airlines to Milwaukee as service began yesterday. Also, remove "begins November 1" from Southwest Airlines to Milwaukee as service as begun. Snoozlepet (talk) 01:17, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ Skomorokh,  barbarian  15:08, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

PHX Cargo Operations
I was wondering if someone could list Cargo Airlines offering service at Sky Harbor. It seems to me most other major U.S. Airports have a list of Cargo Airlines and destinations. I would do it but I'm not quite sure where to find them. Help? --ZH 22:17, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Cargo routes are not easily verifiable, especially since goods don't care how they get there as long as they get there. Unless you can find the airport listing a cargo schedule, only cargo carriers (with dedicated cargo flights) can be listed. HkCaGu (talk) 02:54, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, I e-mailed Sky Harbor to see if there's any possible way of a reply with the Cargo Airline(s)/destination(s) list so we'll see. Thank you --ATController 03:37, 25 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZHoover123 (talk • contribs)
 * I got them! Go ahead and check it out here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Sky_Harbor_International_Airport#Cargo_Operations --ATController 03:44, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Southwest Focus City
I know this has been a very controversial topic here but in Sky Harbor's info box, I would like to list Southwest Airlines as a focus city, not a hub, but a focus city but I can't get it to appear on the article's page...help anyone? --ATController 04:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * "Focus City" is not currently a parameter for the infobox and adding it just going to cause more edit wars. Snoozlepet (talk) 06:50, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well how could I possibly make it a parameter and try to discuss it with other people? ATController 00:38, 11 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZHoover123 (talk • contribs)
 * It has been brought up many times at the Airport Project and even was the subject of a stupid edit war that locked this page for awhile. I was a proponent for it until I realized that we don't have any sources saying it is a focus city. If you can provide some sources saying it is I would be more than happy to chime in with you.Cptnono (talk) 00:57, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * How about: http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/press/factsheet.html#TopTenAirports or even Southwest's Wikipedia page says so: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines ATController 03:14, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Unless Wikipedia's mention is sourced I could care less what it says. Focus city doesn't pop up with a ctl+f search at the SW primary source. Is it really in there? If you are using the figures in the top ten airports without it saying it is a focus city you are using WP:SYNTH. My last search was through It looks like Chicago is listed. This is verified in press releases if I recall correctly. A press release should work and be acceptable as a primary source if one is out there. Cptnono (talk) 03:18, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, Chicago was listen as well as Phoenix, Baltimore, and Las Vegas. ATController 22:15, 11 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZHoover123 (talk • contribs)
 * Can you point to where it says Phoenix is a focus city?Cptnono (talk) 23:27, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * 3rd paragraph. It states Phoenix is Southwest's 2nd largest city or something along those lines. ATController 22:40, 12 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZHoover123 (talk • contribs)
 * If it doesn't say "focus city" there will be 0 chance of the Airport Project even considering inclusion. One of their biggest gripes was possibility of people trying to include the info indiscriminately. See WP:SYNTH.Cptnono (talk) 01:13, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok forget that, I e-mailed Southwest Airlines and Sky Harbor Airport so I will se what they both say. ATController 03:06, 13 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZHoover123 (talk • contribs)
 * That still won't be sufficient since it will not be verifiable for the reader (I'm not saying I don't believe you or them if they say "yes" just that that is the wasy it will work here). I would like to know what they say, though. If they say it is a focus city, then it would be reasoning to step up the look for a source.Cptnono (talk) 04:08, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Will do! Both Sky Harbor and Southwest Airlines said they would reply within 5-7 business days. ATController 18:53, 13 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZHoover123 (talk • contribs)
 * Southwest Airlines says they will get back to me within 45 days :/ so I'm not sure when I'll know. Just check back here every so often. Sorry I didn't realize it would take so long. ATController 00:30, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Asia Service
The article claims that US Air's Tokyo route "would be the first nonstop route between Phoenix and Asia." This is not true. America West offered scheduled service to Nagoya in 1989. 98.218.140.193 (talk) 17:19, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Midwest/Frontier
Midwest's service to Milwaukee is operated by Frontier Airlines. Frontier doesn't offer that route alone, it is within a codeshare with Midwest. If you go onto www.midwestairlines.com and check a flight status between PHX-MKE, it tells you clear as day the green dot means operated by Frontier! ATController 22:44, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Article Quality
This seems to be one of the worst written major airport articles. The overall quality of writing is abysmal, with bits of it barely resembling English, and makes for a very painful read. Also, a lot of the links are factually wrong (eg: London Heathrow International Airport does not exist!). I have attempted to address some of the issues plaguing it - anyone else willing to take a shot at it? Thanks, Jasepl (talk) 03:15, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok so maybe the specific London Heathrow International Airport doesn't exist, but it'll revert to Heathrow International Airport or whatever the article's title is. ATController 05:28, 5 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZHoover123 (talk • contribs)


 * That has nothing to do with my observation; this remains an awfully written article. As for "revert" - double redirects are to be avoided, that's a basic Wikipedia standard. Same reason why I removed "Munich International Airport" (since it doesn't exist either).
 * By the way (and I've asked this before but got no answer) are you ATCOntroller? Or Zhoover? Or both? Neither? Jasepl (talk) 05:58, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It's ATControllerATController 13:18, 5 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZHoover123 (talk • contribs)

Destination Map
Whoever knows how to update Sky Harbor's destination map I think should update it because it currently says as of March 2008. If we could see if there's one a little more recent, that would be awesome! ATController 22:41, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

"Not noteworthy"
Although Wikipeida is not an indiscriminate collection of information, its articles are required to be thorough to have a higher assessment rating. Furthermore, notability guidelines that discuss what is and what is not appropriate for independent articles do not impact individual article's content. Do I need to throw in all of the related Wikilinks? In the spirit of not edit warring on this page anymore (seriously, an outsider would think this is about a war or a genre of punk) how about we figure out what should be included in the recent edit by Hoover. More detail the better as long as it is sourced.Cptnono (talk) 15:28, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for opening the discussion. Notability is probably not the best criteria for the recent edit war. It's more a content issue. What three editors (active elsewhere in WP:AIRPORT articles agree is that the list of airlines is already contained in the airline and destination table. Terminal listing should not contain every airline, and therefore includes only notable carriers (like those who occupy concourses exclusively). Lounges are notable, but not exact locations. These have been the consensus in other airports. If one can't show arguments for PHX to be excepted, then commonality is needed. We can't possibly debate notability in every single airport. HkCaGu (talk) 15:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * So is this something better brought up at the project page? I have to say that I am not at all impressed with it.
 * In regards to this article, (consistency is important but until they receive more GA and FA class articles for actual airports while caring less about what is perceived as a burdensome workload rather than individual articles I really don't care too much) prose is preferred over lists on Wikipeida. There should be no worries if the prose can be expanded in a way that does not read like a wall of text.
 * And I've given Hoover a hard time for what looked like edit warring. Maybe we should be embracing an editor who wants to expand content. Keep it in check to make sure it is verifiable and inline with weight requirements. Other than that, thank him for bettering an article. Cptnono (talk) 15:51, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Southwest HUB
Ok people, Chicago Midway Airport's article says clear as day HUB FOR SOUTHWEST AIRLINES in the airport's infobox.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Midway_International_Airport So is this acceptable to place in Sky Harbor's infobox as well? Or at least as a focus city? I e-mailed SW Airlines and asked them if they considered Sky Harbor to be a "focus city" and they said yes. Work w/ me here...ZHoover123 02:20, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Discussion of the infobox at WP:AIRPORT had determined not to have a field for focus cities. It had been determined to be too much information. MDW's article does not mean a thing. The SWA article still only has focus cities. HkCaGu (talk) 03:17, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I have removed Southwest from the hub infobox at Midway Airport since hub is not the same thing as focus cities. 74.183.173.237 (talk) 06:16, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Got it!ZHoover123 13:13, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Compass and Mesaba Airlines
Delta Air Lines AND Delta Connection operated by Compass Airlines (North America) AND Delta Connection operated my Mesaba Airlines all offer nonstop service to Memphis. Delta uses an Airbus A319, Compass uses an Embraer 175, and Mesaba uses a Canadair Regional Jet 900. For reference, check http://www.delta.com/schedules/travel/reservations/flight_sched/index.jsp ZHoover123 21:40, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

**Destination Map**
For the second time, could someone who knows how please update Sky Harbor's destination map. Cities needed to be added and/or removed to provide the most current information such as Montego Bay, Jamaica ZHoover123 16:14, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Terminal 2?
I just read the terminal 2 section, and it states that it "has 12 gates (numbered 1-13 and two additional lettered gates C & D)". Am I missing something, or is this a mistake? The numbers provided equal out to 15, not 12. Furthermore, I just flew out of gate 12, and didn't see a gate 13 anywhere in the terminal. Does anybody know the correct answer? Scott Sturges  talk - contribs 04:04, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * According to the map of T2 provided on the Sky Harbor website, it shows gates 1-13 in the main wing and gates C-D on the side wing. Haven't been there myself in for a few years.  Cant wait for it to get torn down, its a crap hole.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cygnusloop99 (talk • contribs) 04:24, 6 April 2010 (UTC) ,oops Cygnusloop99 (talk) 04:25, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, ok. I see the 1-13, but that doesn't explain the phrase 12 gates, it doesn't add up. I'm just wondering if there is a reason for the current number listed. Scott Sturges  talk - contribs 06:30, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Gate numbers don't have to be consecutive, but listing individual gate numbers isn't encyclopedic. HkCaGu (talk) 06:44, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I noticed that too when someone re-edited the "Terminal 2" section. But I didn't say anything because apparently I was "doing it wrong" and was being shot down for trying to improve the article. But yes, you are right the numbers do not add up consecutively. It's actually gates 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, & 13 in the terminal's central wing and gates C & D in the east wing. ZHoover123 03:05, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

US Airways International Destinations
Pleas keep US Airways' international destinations separated from their domestic destinations. I know they are all at the same terminal, but it distinguishes them and just looks better in general. There are other airports that format it this way even if all the flights are at the same terminal. ZHoover123 01:27, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Please, this "looks better" thing needs to be discussed in WP:AIRPORT and not be editor-subjective. If there aren't any separate departure area for international flights, we don't list separately. Arrival handling is noted with notes of whatever. HkCaGu (talk) 17:35, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok well isn't one of the whole points of Wikipedia to make things look eye appealing and easy to read for everyone and anyone? Yes. Sometimes setup of certain pages looks like crap. And it seems everytime someone's there to help improve Wikipedia, you're there to shoot them down.ZHoover123 04:49, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Delta Connection
Ok, just so there's no confusion, Delta Connection carriers make frequent changes. Service to Memphis on Compass Airlines and Mesaba Airlines is seasonal. Compass and Mesaba rotate with each other as far as this route. Compass serves this route during winter months, and Mesaba serves it during the summer months; along with the mainline. On the other hand, service to Salt Lake City on Mesaba begins June 10 all together. Please use: for reference. Sorry for the confusion :/ ZHoover123 00:31, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Aeromexico Connect
Aeromexico Connect has one daily flight to HMO from PHX. Please refer to: http://phxskyharbor.innosked.com/(S(zapmtmeoh0cjq245ns4hxza3))/default.aspx - and plug in the destination and click "nonstops" and it'll tell you Aeromexico* and the "*" means operated by Aeromexico Connect...utilizes an ERJ. ZHoover123 21:23, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Aeromexico & Aeromexico Connect
Using this link:, type in: MEXICO CITY ( MEX ) in the bar that reads "Type a city name", then click "Flight Options" (dates don't matter). The schedule shows that Aeromexico Connect has one daily flight (#465 - an ERJ) M, Tues, W, Th, F, & Sat. On the return, there is an Aeromexico Mainline flight (#464 - a Boeing 737-700) that operates daily. Both flights operate from Phoenix to Mexico City via Hermosillo & vice versa. ZHoover123 05:05, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * That link is obviously wrong, or at best, incomplete. How can any airline fly in a plane on some of the days and fly out a different type of plane every day? The fact is that (as I found in my downloaded SkyTeam TravelDesk) AM Connect flies PHX-HMO on an ERJ every day. HMO-MEX is the same flight number, but it is mainline AM using a B737. HkCaGu (talk) 05:49, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh...that's where I was seeing the 737. Ok just thought I'd take a stab at it but now it makes sense. ZHoover123 13:32, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Aeromexico & Aeromexico Connect AGAIN
Ok...finally Aeroméxico fixed their website. It is now easier to read and their destinations/flights & frequecies make much more sense! Now if you'll look here:, it clearly states that Aeroméxico has one nonstop flight Mon-Wed PHX-MEX utilizing a 737 and Aeroméxico Connect has one nonstop Mon-Tue PHX-MEX utilizing an ERJ. On top of that, there's also one daily Aeroméxico Connect flight PHX-HMO utilizing an ERJ as well. ZHoover123 02:40, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * No, the same flight number (464) can't arrive twice on the same day at the same time using two different types of equipment. AM's website simply can't display two equipment types for one flight number. Look at it again. Only AM Connect's ERJ serves PHX from HMO, arrives 1245 and departs 1345. MEX-HMO is a mainline 737. HkCaGu (talk) 04:35, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Coordinate error
The following coordinate fixes are needed for 12S is to be replaced with 12N

S is for Southern hemisphere N is for Northern Hemisphere You may check this at this site http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/toolbox/geography/geoutm.html

—Ddurgaprasad (talk) 03:07, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't find the error you refer to anywhere in this article.... Sailsbystars (talk) 03:14, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Alaska moving terminals
Does anyone know WHEN Alaska Airlines is supposed to transfer operations to terminal 3? I can't find anything on their website nor Sky Harbor's to back that up. ZHoover123 (talk)

Unsourced Material
This article has been tagged for needing citations since early 2011. That's over two years. Feel free to reinsert the below material with appropriate references. Doniago (talk) 16:43, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Frontier/Republic
In the airlines and destinations section there are two entries for Frontier - as "Frontier Airlines" and also as "Frontier Airlines operated by Republic Airlines." The second entry is no longer accurate. Republic has sold Frontier and no Republic aircraft fly any Frontier routes.Marinerpacific (talk) 10:00, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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Archiving?
Any objections to turning on archiving for any thread over five years old? I'll give it at least a week before I make any changes. Thanks! DonIago (talk) 17:37, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

U.S. Flag Icon on Top Destination Chart
All other airports have the flags of the U.S. states within their Top destination charts yet the ones here keep being removed! If the one here keeps being removed then it would only make sense to remove them from all other pages to keep all the airport pages somewhat cohesive, if not then leave it as is! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8800:5981:4D80:FCED:FD5D:CBD7:7BFF (talk) 22:53, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Crash of 3150Y
There is no 26R at PHX. When talking about RWY 26, its just 26.

The only RWYS with directional designations are 7R/25L or 7L/25R. 2600:8800:2300:6C00:3974:3634:C3C1:575 (talk) 18:26, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Suitability of incidents and accidents on this page
A few days ago I removed one of the entries here (QF7) as it completely fails to meet any of the inclusion criteria defined at WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT for such detail

Accidents and incidents
Accidents or incidents should only be included in airport articles if they took place at or near the airport and:
 * The accident was fatal or caused injury to either the aircraft occupants or persons on the ground.
 * The accident involved hull loss or serious damage to the aircraft or airport.
 * The accident invoked a change in procedures, regulations or process that had a wide effect on other airports or airlines or the aircraft industry.

This change was reverted by an editor that appears to continue to insist on my talk page that this consensus does not exist, so I am bringing this here.

Further to the question above - the only listed incident here that perhaps has any encyclopedic merit from my reading of them is the March 13 1990 entry. Maungapohatu (talk) 05:48, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Parallel runways at PHX with different numbers
Why do parallel runways have different numbers? They're all pointing in the same direction. --24.80.199.58 (talk) 11:18, 18 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Unless this is specific to this airport, you might better ask this question at Runway. DonIago (talk) 02:17, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * It is specific to this airport. No other airport of which I am aware has done this. --24.80.199.58 (talk) 06:13, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but the article I linked you to specifically mentions parallel runways. DonIago (talk) 07:50, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I didn't expect that a general article about runways would have something specific about this airport's runways, or the several others that show my ignorance of how many other airports have done this. Shows you how much a non-ATP pilot who doesn't fly into those major airports knows! Thanks. --24.80.199.58 (talk) 23:44, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Happy to help! DonIago (talk) 01:58, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Duplicate Tables - Airline market share
can you explain why you have added and continually restore a second "Airline market share" table covering almost exactly the same time period as the existing one. This is an encyclodedia and only one is necessary, I don't much care which, but the annual one may prevent someone trying to unhelpfully update it every month. Also "Top airline" is meaningless as a heading We already have a heading Market Share which should suffice in this instance. Please see WP:BRD which contains some good advice about a nice way to conduct yourself when people revert your work. Maungapohatu (talk) 02:31, 27 May 2024 (UTC)