Talk:Phosphite anion

Question
I always hear about phosphorous in relationship to water pollution. Could somebody write about this substances role in water pollution and it's environmental impact?


 * You probably mean phosphates. There is a big difference between phosphorus (P), phosphorous (HPO32-), and phosphate (PO43-).


 * See phosphate and eutrophication for the details, but in a nutshell, algae consume phosphates and oxygen to produce energy. If large amounts of phosphates are introduced into a body of water, the algae population increases exponentially and rapidly consumes the oxygen dissolved in the water. When this happens, every organism that depends on dissolved oxygen dies out and the lake loses its ability to sustain life.


 * P.S. Could you please sign your posts with " ~ " in the future?


 * Darrien 07:34, 2005 Apr 29 (UTC)


 * As the phosphite article mentions briefly, salts of phosphorous acid are being considered for fertilizers, apparently because they are more soluble than, say, ammonium phosphate.--Smokefoot 22:23, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with the formula. Phosphite ion should be PO33&minus;. I do not buy the explanation that Phosphorous acid is a diprotic acid, since the hydrogen bonded directly to the central phosphorus atom is not ionizable because oxygen is much more electronegative than phosphorus, so it would make sense for all the hydrogens to bind to the oxygens.
 * I agree, the dianion is initially a little surprising to many, but check a first-year chem book, and if that does not work, read further - say Greenwood and Earnshaw, which underpins a lot of the inorganic pages.--Smokefoot 12:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I am a turfgrass manager dealing with many variety of organic and synthetic fertilizers. People are beginning to talk about the use of Phosphite materials vs Phosphate(or the usual Phosphorous in fertilizer N-P-K formulations.) Regular phosphate fertilizers come in the form of P2O5 while the new phosphite fertilizers are '''H3PO3. ''' Can anyone help me in explaining what is the main distinction between the two compounds are. I am trying to understand the role of each as it affects the nutritional role and nutrient availability to plant cell health. Basicly why one is better or worse than the other?

Thanks

--Hotlunch2000 (talk) 20:14, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The formula of the phosphite ion
The naming of phosphorus oxoanions (oxyanions historically) and acids is a mess. While we might not like it the ion is HPO32− not PO33-. I am not even sure if the PO33- ion is known. The more rational naming of IUPAC will probably never be adopted- so we just have to live with the confusing naming we have inherited from our predecessors. I guess the confusion is "compounded" by the naming of P(OR)3 as phosphites. --Axiosaurus (talk) 18:13, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * As a by the by- just to add to the confusion - IUPAC actually would name the PO33− ion phosphite and HPO32− phosphonate- as they recommend the name phosphonic acid for HPO(OH)2.--Axiosaurus (talk) 11:29, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This article is about phosphonate... my chemistry class teaches that the Phosphite ion is PO33-. JudelFoir (talk) 23:07, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I've made a picture to show the structure of HPO32−. It's from a real crystal structure (ref given on image description page), so no-one can argue that H should be bonded to O. I've also made a 2D pic of the structure, showing two possible resonance forms. I'm not sure if either of these are any use in the article, but if they are, go ahead and insert them.


 * [[Image:Phosphite-ion-from-xtal-3D-balls.png|100px|Ball-and-stick model of the phosphite ion]] [[Image:Phosphite-ion-resonance-2D.png|300px]]

Ben (talk) 14:00, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I suggest examination of the formula for phosphite from an authoritative source, CAS Registry Number 14901-63-4. PO33−, according to the American Chemical Society. Ppetrel

HPO32− is not phosphite. It is phosphonate. Please verify for yourself phosphonic acid HPO(OH)2 CAS Registry No. 13598-36-2, is the diprotic acid from which phosphonate, HPO32− derives. Ppetrel

—Preceding undated comment added 11:48, 8 February 2010 (UTC).

As life's first energy source
Pyrophosphite

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100612/sc_livescience/newtheoryforlifesfirstenergysource —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.14.106 (talk) 23:48, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Digging deeper into the articles, it appears they are talking about pyrophosphate, a well known molecule in intermediary metabolism. It is an inorganic analog of ATP. The title of the reference cited says pyrophosphite, but in the article itself the substance being talked about as life's first energy source is repeatedly called pyrophosphate, so I think the "ite" in the title is a misprint.CharlesHBennett (talk) 18:20, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Phosphite fertilizer/pesticide?
I have introduced some cautions in the main phosphite article section on Plant Use, because I was unable to find the one cited source in my local library, and several of the statements appear ambiguous or dubious. Inorganic phosphATES are well known fertilizers, and organophoshATE  esters are well known insecticides, but I was unable to find any online sources for phosphITES (inorganic or organic) as either fertilizers or fungicides. Could someone with more expertise or agricultural library access please help clarify this section? CharlesHBennett (talk) 20:09, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Did a little more research myself which seems to have clarified the situation, and revised the article appropriately. Inorganic phosphites are used as pesticides against oomycetes, and may have other beneficial effects, but they are converted to phosphate too slowly to serve as a plant's main phosphorus source. So it appears that advertising them as fertilizers was in part motivated by regulatory and public-relations considerations.CharlesHBennett (talk) 22:39, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Changes to lede
I have removed some incorrect references- Loubs work was not about salts of PO33- ion but about salts containing HPO32- and H2PO3-  so there is no evidence for the structure of the elusive PO33- ion. Greenwood does not mention this ion at all so I have removed the reference supporting the oxidation state of +3. Axiosaurus (talk) 16:59, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Revision of lede, headiing changes etc
i have rewritten some of this to try to help resolve the confusion caused by the conflict between the IUPAC name phosphite, which is now being more widely used and the legacy use of the name which still continues particularly in agrichemicals field. I believe that UK A level refers to HPO32- as phosphite but I haven't got a reference for that. I have also added a brief comparison to arsenite and sulfite and a structure picture of HPO32- courtesy of Ben. The user box is mess. I cannot find a reliable CAS# for either the IUPAC phosphite or the legacy phosphite ions

Axiosaurus (talk) 15:39, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Image - this is a phosphite ester.
The image is one of the phosphite ester rather than the IUPAC phosphite PO33- (non existant) ion or the real HPO32- (IUPAC phosphonate) ion often called phosphite. Is the image appropriate.Axiosaurus (talk) 07:56, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * As described in Phosphite. --Smokefoot (talk) 12:41, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * If someone removes the image, I suggest you leave behind a comment in there. Since it's eponymous, another GF editor might come along and add it, like I did. -DePiep (talk) 15:27, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Something like this then? Theres also an image of the resonance forms, should anyone wish for it. Project Osprey (talk) 15:15, 9 July 2014 (UTC)



Removed paragraph
"Salts containing

cannot be isolated from aqueous solutions of phosphorous acid. Only salts containing or  are produced. There are reports of a salt Na3PO3 in older literature and the use of sodium metal to remove the third hydrogen in H3PO3 is mentioned in a textbook. However, if is produced in aqueous solution or dissolved it would form  or  immediately. Na3PO3 is referred to in many textbooks on Internet sources, often as part of an exercise in naming inorganic compounds, but also as a misprint of the formula for the phosphate salt, Na3PO4." seemed like negative info, so I took it out. --Smokefoot (talk) 23:05, 6 July 2017 (UTC)