Talk:Phytolacca americana

Rewrite
Substantial rewrite of the stub. More to come. Karen S Vaughan 05:35, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

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Content removed for discussion
I have removed the content below from the article because I think it is inconsistent with Wikipedia policy. It relies heavily on primary sources and/or unreliable sources. Medical claims should use peer-reviewed secondary sources. See WP:MEDRS and Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine. Deli nk (talk) 14:28, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Historically used for syphilis, diphtheria, conjunctivitis, cancer, adenitis and emesis or as a purgative. Used topically for scabies. Heroic and toxic class herb which requires professional training.

Physiologically, phytolacca acts upon the skin, the glandular structures, especially those of the buccal cavity, throat, sexual system, and very markedly upon the mammary glands. It further acts upon the fibrous and serous tissues, and mucous membranes of the digestive and urinary tracts. Phytolacca is alterative, anodyne, anti-inflammatory,antiviral, anti-cancer, expectorant, emetic, cathartic, narcotic, hypnotic,insecticide and purgative.

Tincture of the Root: Alterative, for lymphatic disorders including breast lumps and skin conditions (especially when accompanied by a poultice on the lesions.) Also for arthritis, rheumatism, conjunctivitis, tonsillitis, infectious disease, edema, and cancer.

Root poultice: the root roasted in ashes and mashed is used as a poultice for breast abscesses. Also used for rheumatic pains, and swellings.

Root wash: used for sprains or swellings.

Root infused oil: The freshly dried root can be steeped in oil for breast abscesses and is often used in cancer protocols.

Berries: eaten without biting into the toxic seeds for arthritis. One is taken the first day, two the second, up to 7 and back down to one. The berries can also be soaked in water and the water drunk for rheumatism and arthritis. Juice has been topically applied for cancer, hemorrhoids and tremors.

Leaves: Cathartic and purgative.

Ash from plant: Potassium rich, used in cancer salves.

Anti-cancer: The anticancer effects appear to work primarily based upon anti-tumor and anti-inflammatory properties, along with immune stimulant functions. Additional support for fighting cancer may come from antiplasmodial or cytotoxic fractions of the phytolacca toxin. And, although it has not been confirmed as a cause or factor of cancers, the antimicrobial, antiviral and antithelmetic properties of certain constituents might also play a part in anticancer activity. Further there are aromatase inhibitors and antioxidant properties that may affect cancer. Anti-cancer, antileukemic or anti-tumor constituents include: ascorbic acid, astragalin, beta carotene, caryophylline, isoquercitin, oleanolic acid, riboflavin, tannin and thiamine. Of the constituents known to fight cancer, oleanolic acid appears to be the most significant with its anticarcinomic; anticomplement, antihepatotoxic; antiinflammatory, antileukemic; antileukotriene, antinephritic, antioxidant, antiperoxidant, antiPGE2, antiplasmodial, antisarcomic; antiseptic, antiTGFbeta, antitumor (Breast, Colon, Kidney, Lung, Pancreas); antiviral, aromataseinhibitor; cancer-preventive; hepatoprotective; immunomodulator;leucocytogenic; NF-κB-Inhibitor; phagocytotic; and prostaglandin-synthesisinhibitor properties.

Anti-inflammatory constituents include saponins in poke root and triterpenes in the berries: alpha spinasterol, ascorbic acid, calcium oxalate, caryophylline, isoquercitin, jialigonic acid, and oleanolic acid.

Immune stimulant constituents include astragalin, ascorbic acid, beta carotene, phosphorus and oleanolic acid.

Antiviral: PAP, oleanolic acid, ascorbic acid, tannin, mitogen.

In addition: Betanin and oleanolic acid are antiperoxidative and the vitamins plus caryophylline and oleanolic acid are antioxidant. Astragalin, isoquercitin and caryophylline are aldose-reductase-inhibitors.

Anti-AIDS: Pokeweed antiviral protein (a Single Chain Ribosome Inactivating Protein or SCRIP) is being considered as a potent inhibitor of human immunodeficiency for AIDS. There are also three different well-known pokeweed antiviral protein (PAP)isoforms from leaves of Phytolacca americana (PAP-I from spring leaves, PAPII from early summer leaves, and PAP-III from late summer leaves) that cause concentration-dependent depurination of genomic HIV-1 RNA.


 * Out of 9 references, one appears unreliable and two are primary sources. This seems quite easy to fix. Nadiatalent (talk) 17:12, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Which do you find unreliable? Here are a few of my concerns to start with:  1) Most of the "Anti-cancer" section is speculative at best - and the only reference is a primary source that describes in vitro effects, and not any kind of medicinal use. 2) The anti-AIDS section cites a primary source relating to isolated proteins, which appears not to mention anti-AIDS effects at all.  3) Reference 8 is a dead link. 4) The ars-grin.gov reference is used five times, and I don't see how it can be used to support article content because the link goes to a page with no information.  5) cancersalves.com, a "Sacred Medicine Sanctuary" selling "Herbal Cancer Treatments", is not appropriate for Wikipedia. 6) Much of the content is misleading in the sense that it suggests that the herb is currently used in medicine (for example, the phrase "is often used in cancer protocols").  Deli nk (talk) 16:20, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The cancersalves.com web site I haven't been able to access, but the name suggests that it is for-profit and perhaps therefore dubious, so I entirely agree with you there. Dr Duke's web site probably is good, though I'm having trouble accessing it. I've seen the printed book from which his database derives and it is a very serious documenting of ethnobotanical data. Also, the USDA ARS GRIN web site endorses it, and they take a responsible attitude.

PFAF.org is a good web site, but they keep frustratingly moving it around. The new web address is here. The dead links problem is particularly bad on this page. I agree that the text needs changing to removed the fanciful parts, but perhaps not total removal if those or other papers contain something relevant. The 1979 article cited for AIDS which was discovered in 1981 is bizarre, but perhaps there is a missing article that cites it. If you search for the phrase "Pokeweed antiviral protein (a Single Chain Ribosome Inactivating Protein or SCRIP) is being considered as a potent inhibitor of human immunodeficiency for AIDS" in google, a whole bunch of pages turn up. Perhaps there is a copyright issue here as well. Trying the same search in scholar.google.com produces just one paper pdf here. So what I'm saying is that this is certainly icky, but perhaps not in the "using herbs to treat illness is all in your imagination" way. Nadiatalent (talk) 12:47, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I hope I'm not implying that I believe in the general claim that "using herbs to treat illness is all in your imagination". What I do believe is that much of what was written in this article as medical uses for this herb is in reality little more than preliminary research with no known relevance to human health.
 * I just took a look at the International Journal of Research in Pharmaceutical and Biomedical Sciences article you linked above and I have to say that it is an astonishingly poor example of scientific writing ... bad grammar, incomplete sentences, and misspellings throughout. I can even find multiple claims that are clearly untrue (for example, "a possible CURE for Childhood Leukemia called (B43-PAP) is found in the common Pokeweed", when B43-PAP is actually a synthetic construct).  In addition to the phrase that you have already noted (which appears in the history of this article before the exact same words were published in the IJRPBS article), I think there are more examples in there of word-for-word plagiarism from online sources.  Shameful, really.  Deli nk (talk) 18:00, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, I'm glad you had time to check into that. Indeed, it is disgraceful. The journal has only existed since 2010. My spam email gets quite a lot of messages from people who claim to be starting an international peer-reviewed journal (but enough said about that before I defame somebody). Nadiatalent (talk) 21:20, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Based on your comments, I'd support adding back a summary of traditional ethnobotanical uses that can be supported by content at pfaf.org or Dr Duke's website. Deli nk (talk) 18:10, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Good idea. I won't have much time to work on wikipedia for a few weeks, but will check my watch list in case you work on this, and will supply comments, if any seem appropriate. Did you notice, by the way, that the 1979 article mentioned in vitro and in vivo? Nadiatalent (talk) 21:20, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The 1979 paper does not describe any in vivo work, but it does refer to an in vivo study reported in a Pediatrics paper titled "Peripheral blood plasmacytosis following systemic exposure to Phytolacca americana (pokeweed)". I don't have access to the full text, or even the abstract, but "peripheral blood plasmacytosis" doesn't seem to be a beneficial effect. I'll try to search the pfaf.org and Dr Duke's websites for support for the ethnobotanical uses.  Deli nk (talk) 14:34, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Material removed from Pokeweed article
The article which was previously titled "Pokeweed" was a mixture of information about the genus Phytolacca as a whole and information about Pokeweed in the sense of Phytolacca americana. If this material belongs anywhere, it belongs in this article, although it's not well sourced. I've removed it from the Phytolacca article (leaving a short summary relating to this one species) and left the original material below for anyone who cares to work on it.


 * There's a lot of good stuff below, so I do hope somebody carefully puts some of it back in.
 * --editeur24 (talk) 05:20, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Note: I've reduced the original sections to subsections to fit it within one section here. Peter coxhead (talk) 17:13, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Uses
All parts of pokeweed are toxic including the raw aboveground leaves sprouting in the early spring. The poisonous principles are found in highest concentrations in the rootstock, less in the mature leaves and stems, and least in the ripe fruit (green fruit are slightly more toxic). Young leaves, if collected before acquiring a red color, are edible if boiled for 5 minutes, rinsed, and reboiled. Berries are toxic when raw but cooked juice is edible (the seeds remain toxic after cooking). However, it may be difficult to identify exactly when leaves have no red color whatsoever; an incorrect picking may result in a poisoning. In a traditional Cherokee recipe for fried poke stalks, young stalks are harvested while still tender, peeled to remove most of the toxin, washed, then cut into pieces and fried like okra with cornmeal.

Young pokeweed leaves can be boiled three times to reduce the toxin, discarding the water after each boiling. The result is known as poke salit, or poke salad, and is occasionally available commercially. Many authorities advise against eating pokeweed even after thrice boiling, as traces of the toxin may still remain. It should never be eaten uncooked. For many decades, poke salad has been a staple of southern U.S. cuisine, despite campaigns by doctors who believed pokeweed remained toxic even after being boiled. The lingering cultural significance of Poke salad can be found in the 1969 hit song "Polk Salad Annie," written and performed by Tony Joe White, and famously covered by Elvis Presley, as well as other bands including the El Orbits of Houston, Texas. Pokeberry juice is added to other juices for jelly by those who believe it can relieve the pain of arthritis. There are currently four known poke sallet festivals held annually. They are in Gainesboro, Tennessee; Blanchard, Louisiana; Harlan, Kentucky; and, Arab, Alabama.

Since pioneer times, pokeweed has been used as a folk remedy to treat many ailments. It can be applied topically or taken internally. Topical treatments have been used for acne and other ailments. Internal treatments include tonsillitis, swollen glands and weight loss. Dried berries were ingested whole as a treatment for boils, taken 1 berry per day for 7 days. Grated pokeroot was used by Native Americans as a poultice to treat inflammations and rashes of the breast. Independent researchers are investigating phytolacca's use in treating AIDS and cancer patients. Especially to those who have not been properly trained in its use, pokeweed should be considered dangerous and possibly deadly.

Ingestion of poisonous parts of the plant may cause severe stomach cramping, nausea with persistent diarrhea and vomiting, sometimes bloody, slow and difficult breathing, weakness, spasms, hypertension, severe convulsions, and death. However, consuming fewer than 10 uncooked berries is generally harmless to adults. Several investigators have reported deaths in children following the ingestion of uncooked berries or pokeberry juice. Severe poisonings have been reported in adults who ingested mature pokeweed leaves and following the ingestion of tea brewed from one-half teaspoonful of powdered pokeroot.

Pokeweed berries yield a red ink or dye, which was once used by aboriginal Americans to decorate their horses. Many letters written home during the American Civil War were written in pokeberry ink; the writing in these surviving letters appears brown. The red juice has also been used to symbolize blood, as in the anti-slavery protest of Benjamin Lay. A rich brown dye can be made by soaking fabrics in fermenting berries in a hollowed-out pumpkin.

Some pokeweeds are also grown as ornamental plants, mainly for their attractive berries; a number of cultivars have been selected for larger fruit panicles.

Pokeweeds are used as food plants by the larvae of some Lepidoptera species including Giant Leopard Moth.

Toxicity
Toxic constituents have been identified including the alkaloid phytolaccine (and the alkaloid phytolaccotoxin), as well as a glycoprotein.

Clinical signs
 *  In humans:

The eating of limited quantities of poke, perhaps of the shoots, may cause retching or vomiting after two hours or more. These signs may be followed by dyspnea, perspiration, spasms, severe purging, prostration, tremors, watery diarrhea and vomiting (sometimes bloody) and, sometimes, convulsions. In severe poisonings, symptoms are weakness, excessive yawning, slowed breathing, fast heartbeat, dizziness, and possibly seizures, coma and death.
 * In horses:

Colic, diarrhea, respiratory failure.


 * In swine:

Unsteadiness, inability to rise, retching. Jerking movements of the legs. Below-normal temperature.
 * In cattle:

Same general signs plus a decrease in milk production.

Material for a rewrite
Starting a new section since the previous one is so large. It is weird how we seem to have such non-overlapping access to different materials. For what it's worth, here is the citation and abstract for the peripheral blood paper:

"Mitogenic properties of extracts from Phytolacca americana (pokeweed, scoke, inkberry) for human peripheral blood cells in vitro have been reported from this laboratory. Subsequently, the appearance of leukocytes typical of early and late members of the plasmacytic series was described in the peripheral bloods of two of the authors (P.F. and B.E.B.), who received accidental systemic exposure to the mitogen. Effects of phytomitogens on human cells in vivo are not established, although a number of investigators have administered phytohemagglutinin from Phaseolus vulgaris to patients with aplastic anemia, hoping that the 'transformed' lymphocytes might possess hematopoietic potentialities and repopulate the marrow with useful cells. Interpretations of such studies have been complicated by the small numbers of patients studied, the natural course of this group of anemias, simultaneous use of other therapy, and other variables.More information has been accumulated about the effects of phytomitogens on peripheral blood cells in vitro. The process of 'transformation' or blastogenesis of lymphocytes, whether induced by plant extracts or specific antigenic stimuli, appears to involve an immune mechanism, although morphologic differentiation toward the plasmacytic series is not seen in the in vitro environment.Recently, we have had the opportunity to study serial blood films from children who received systemic exposure to pokeberry, either through proven oral ingestion (berries recovered from vomitus), or by exposure of fresh cuts and abrasions to pokeberry juice in the course of handling the berries. In each of these instances large cells morphologically typical of plasmablasts and proplasmacytes, and mature plasma cells were found in the peripheral blood films for periods up to 2 weeks following exposure. Mitotic cells were present in the peripheral blood during the first 10 days after exposure (Fig. 1 and 2)."

Nadiatalent (talk) 16:00, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Notes triggered from Phytolacca article work

 * A large chunk of this article appears to be a copy/paste from a footnoted document... possibly just a bad internal copy/paste... but I always worry about copyvio when I see that.
 * The food bit is repeated repeatedly
 * The description of food use in the Phytolacca article appears to me to be better wording.Unfriend13 (talk) 21:23, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

NO information for effects when smoked
If smoking Phytolacca conduces to any psychotropic effect it would explain proposals for its extermination by antipsychotropic fanatics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.28.16 (talk) 16:56, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * What reason is there to think that smoking this plant has any psychotropic effect? And who are these antipsychotropic fanatics that are proposing to exterminate it?  Deli nk (talk) 17:08, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I have never heard of anyone proposing smoking pokeweed (and I have been alive since 1948, grew up in the Appalachians, and survived the 1960s). Efforts at extermination are motivated by the toxicity of pokeweed to mammals including human children. In full disclosure, I exterminated a patch of pokeweed I found growing on my property because neighbor children might find the berries tempting. "If smoking Phytolacca conduces to any psychotropic effect it would explain proposals for its extermination by antipsychotropic fanatics" sounds like a parody of a propsychotropic fanatic who sees narcs behind every bush. Have we been trolled here? -- Naaman Brown (talk) 09:47, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Photo
The photo at the lower left, showing flowers in bud only, is almost certainly not Phytolacca americana. It appears to be one of the other species. P. acinosa, or perhaps P. polyandra? 160.111.254.17 (talk) 19:56, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Also, the third photo in the gallery showing fruit is certainly not P. americana. (In fact it is identified as P. acinosa in the source.) 160.111.254.17 (talk) 19:16, 29 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I've removed the images in question. Plantdrew (talk) 05:14, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Berries as pie
Hi all, I am looking for sources on eating pokeberries as pie or jam after proper preparation. It does not seem to be nearly as widely recorded as the use of the greens, but pokeberry pie is widespread in the rural South. I've had relatives be surprised to learn that it is considered poisonous. Has anyone come across any references? - 65.29.170.66 (talk) 16:15, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't know of any myself, but it would be the basis for a good addition to the article. It sound appallingly dangerous, but maybe it's perfectly safe. It could be that the seeds are poisonous but the juice is not, for example, as with cherries. The juice would add a lot of color to a pie filling (any flavor?) editeur24 (talk) 16:23, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Keep it or destroy
Didn’t know what this was until I sent in a photo. 159.250.211.88 (talk) 21:15, 10 June 2024 (UTC)