Talk:Piaggio P.108

Operational history question
The operational history section mentions that: "The first action was almost a disaster: out of five aircraft, one was forced to abandon this mission while the other four bombed with 66 x 100 kg and 6 x 250 kg bombs, but three of them were forced to land in Spain, short of fuel, and two crashed."
 * This statement is a bit ambiguous and needs to be rewritten, but I don't know if the two aircraft that crashed were part of the three that ran out of fuel, or whether it was the first aircraft that had to abandon the mission and the final aircraft that wasn't forced to land in Spain that are being referred to; or perhaps some other combination! Can anyone help? --Red Sunset 18:06, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

As citation needed, other Bzuk'best i suppose.

So, let's start: the drawings of P.108s shows a ratio of fuselage of 1,4/16,5 so given the fact it was almost 23m long, it's obvious that it had a fuselage 1,9m around wide. Sorry, but it is well know: it's mathematic, also in the Bzuk conceptions of Wiki it still works.

Second: just tell me how hell the citation needed are needed to a claim of 'that an medium caliber weapon cannot destroy a battleship'. Even ipotizing a gross ignorance, by Gods, how is supposed a shell pierce three armoured decks and then explode in the ammo magazines? Just to laugh a bit. Do you understand WHY germans stopped to mount big guns in their ships and started with missiles such Fritz-X? NO? And so, don't mixed with this article, sorry.

Third: if the main innovation of P.108 was their wing armament, fact cited by all the source i have and needless to say, a simple fact that no other aircraft had them, what's the point to ask citation neerded? Just to trolling? --Stefanomencarelli 15:07, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

P.108A
I've pruned some of the more in-depth related information and comparisons to the gun fitted to the C-130 as I don't think that it was really needed here, and the article as a whole has become quite lengthy and would benefit from further reductions. Too much related information detracts from the flow of the article, most of which in any case can be accessed via the wikilinks. --Red Sunset 19:56, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Answers
[edit] P.108 help needed a-Hi Stefano, after your block I could use your help on some P.108 matters:

The number of P.108Cs completed is given as 16 in both the introduction and the "variants" section which appears to be the correct figure, yet there is mention later in the article of just two being completed and subsequently falling into German hands. Can you explain this? Both P.108C and T were probably 16, but nobody knows. 2 C were completed at armistice, 11 T were on charge in 1944: perhaps were the 6 C ordered and lather modiphied and 5 build as T but there is no sureness how many were built of both the types. Not many, however, because also P.108T was ordered in not more than 9. To add mess, the last the 6 P.108B srs III ordered were or destroyed or transformed in C. The total P.108B known was 12 srs I and 12 srs II. A damned great mess for so few machines. I wrote an history in wich all they were downed over Schweinfurt in 1943, and all the time i research about this aircraft i have enjoy to have written this fiction. I don't really like P.108s.

b-Were the 12 or more P108Ts produced additional to the conversions of P.108Cs? 6 C and 9 T ordered, claimed by Nico Sgarlato in the monography, but the german asked all the stuff italian industries can produce, so the total is unclear.

c-What information do you have on the P.108M Modificato? Niente. perhaps it was P.108Bis/P.133, ordered, guess, in 12 examples and lather reduced to 6. No one completed.

d-Finally, there are several "citation needed" tags that require attention to tidy things up, and since you provided much of the article's information, you are best placed to do this as you have the sources of reference.

Cneeded 1: Sgarlato (but they were 60, apparently),Cneeded 2: Pedriali, Cneeded 3: Sgarlato (is it so hard to understand that a cleaner nose allows more speed??),cneeded 4: i don't take it seriuosly: if the dorsal turrets were shot off, the aircraft lost its couvers against enemy threats from behind and above simplt because there were not other weapons (i must post a draw to explain this arrangement). Is it so difficult to understand this? cneeded 6: Sgarlato, cneeded 7 Sgarlato (but in the article there are information about the improving of reliabilitty of the bombers, so still is it difficult understand how after 4 years of service the reliability improved?), cneeded 8 and 9: since i already wrote that the total was around 24B, 2-6C and 5-9 T it's obvious that there were not as total, 163 (still an old dumb statement made by some anglo-saxon authors). Some cneeded are good, but others are a clear insult about the human intelligence, don't you agree?--Stefanomencarelli 19:11, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Much obliged --Red Sunset 18:08, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Me too.--Stefanomencarelli 19:11, 29 August 2007 (UTC)--Stefanomencarelli 16:44, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

original source
unlucky i've not book on 108 but a copy of italian air force HQ internal publication, w/o date but i think early '43. this are the data for 108 first serie max speed 419.5 km/h at 3,900 meters (weight 25,500 kg) ceiling (pratical) 8,050 meters (weight 25,500 kg) time to 4,000 meters 15' 51'' (weight 25,500) range 3,520 km (cruise 320 km/h at 4,000 meters, at take off weight 29,885 kg) normal take off weight 29,885 kg (9,700 kg fuel, 500 kg oil, 1000 kg bombs) lenght 22,92 m, Wingspan 32 m, height 6 m, wing area 135 msq 2 .30 Scotti in later position, 2x2 .50 Safat on engine turrets, 1 .50 Safat in nose turret, 1 .50 Safat in ventral turret. max bomb bay load: 38x50kg or 34x100 kg or 7x250or500 kg bombs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.234.224.199 (talk) 18:52, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

A bit of copyediting and gnoming

 * Just for info colleagues. I am trimming and attempting some copyediting and general gnoming. A good article, but could lose some "flab" :) Happy to discuss any changes that others wish to comment on. Simon Irondome (talk) 00:28, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

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