Talk:Piano Quartet (Schumann)/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 08:48, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Happy to review this article.

Lead section / infobox

 * 1842 doesn’t lead where you expect it to. I would put the article it is linked to in a ‘See also' section.


 * Link chamber music; hymn; staccato; scale (Scale (music)).


 * just weeks earlier – 'weeks earlier' is sufficient.


 * Who was Mathieu Wielhorsky? (amend to something like ‘the Russian cellist Mathieu Wielhorsky’).


 * his wife Clara – needs to be amended to 'Schumann’s wife Clara', for the sake of clarity.


 * Presumably figural should be linked to Figure (music); and trio sections to Minuet.


 * Link Liepzig (in the infobox).


 * premiered by her – strictly speaking this could be considered incorrect, as she was accompanied by other players.


 * I’m unclear what coherent on a large scale means here.


 * moves around a scale – which scale is being referred to here?


 * It’s not obvious why one of the most beautiful cello themes is with quote marks.


 * Today, it is recognized as the culmination of virtually all previous exploration – I would add ‘up to that time’ or something similar, to make it clear to readers that other piano quartets developed the genre after Schumann’s work was written.


 * I would use (this, p. 5) to identify the instruments played by the quartet at the premiere (in both the infobox and the main text of the article).

More to follow. Amitchell125 (talk) 15:13, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

4.1 Sources

 * Consider linking Knopf (Alfred A. Knopf).


 * The following url links are available:
 * 1) Chernaik - https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Schumann/wtliDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover
 * 2) Daverio (1997) - https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Robert_Schumann/NcDnCwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover
 * 3) Daverio (2002) - https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Crossing_Paths/_0Op5iSV28kC?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover
 * 4) Geck - https://archive.org/details/robertschumannli0000geck/page/n5/mode/2up
 * 5) Keller - https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Chamber_Music/6OCOvvu0O1wC?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover
 * 6) Krebs https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Fantasy_Pieces/ASroCwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover
 * 7) Murray -  https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Chamber_Music/8D59CAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover
 * 8) Jensen - https://archive.org/details/schumann0000jens/page/n3/mode/2up
 * 9) Smallman - https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Piano_Quartet_and_Quintet/7TzEBCIO8sgC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=smallman+The+Piano+Quartet+and+Quintet:+Style,+Structure,+and+Scoring&printsec=frontcover


 * Murray needs a location (for consistency).

More to follow. AM

1 Background

 * Red link Piano quartet in C minor. Imo it needs to be added to the template ‘Chamber music by Robert Schumann’.
 * Not sure if the Piano Quartet in C minor is notable in its own; it was never performed publicly in Schumann's lifetime, was only recently published, and is almost never performed. intforce (talk) 13:32, 4 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Link Liepzig; Fantasiestücke, Op. 12; impresario.


 * I’m unclear what to his reception of Schubert means here.


 * I would amend his second piano trio to 'Schubert’s second piano trio', for the sake of clarification.


 * it was his most notable accomplishment – it needs to be clear we are talking about Schumann, and not Schubert.


 * Red link any compositions by Schumann not already linked.


 * Amend one-hundred thaler to '100 thalers' (linked).


 * a "remarkably polished work for someone who was as yet without formal training in composition" is followed by 2 citations—it needs to clearer whose words are being quoted.


 * the work remained unpublished – as 4 different works are mentioned in this paragraph, I would amend this to ‘Schumann’s E♭ major quartet remained unpublished’.


 * substantial chamber music – substantial in quantity or size?


 * Consider linking Clara Schumann In the image caption.


 * dubbed his "chamber music year" – by who, and from when?


 * in September and October – the prose appear to say that the work was completed over the 2 months, I would make it clearer that it took months to write. Ditto in October and November.


 * Schumann's – amend to Schumanns’.


 * in a private recital – imo ‘at a private recital’ is better.


 * The public premiere, as I believe premieres are not held in private, public can removed.


 * Include the instruments each performer played (as in the infobox).


 * Refs 7 and 8 should be swapped round.


 * According to this, the picture of Clara, dated 1840, was made before she was married, so the caption should read 'Clara Wieck'.


 * Ref 2 (Dav 1997) doesn’t appear to mention Schubert’s 2nd piano trio on p. 246.


 * Ref 7a doesn’t appear to mention who the work was dedicated to.

More comments to follow. The list of comments seems to be getting very long, but many points are minor, and anyway the review gives me a good excuse to listen to hours of Schumann's chamber music, as if I needed one. Amitchell125 (talk) 18:51, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

1.1 Relationship to the Piano Quintet

 * Who are John Daverio, Ulrich Leisinger and James Keller?


 * Link E♭ major (E-flat major); consider linking strings (String quartet).


 * the addition of a viola adds density to the ensemble's middle range – readers unfamiliar with the terms 'density' and 'middle range' might need some help here.


 * There are 10 quoted phrases in this small section, which is too many. Most can be edited out by paraphrasing the sources instead of quoting them.

2.1 Sostenuto assai – Allegro ma non troppo

 * Link Beethoven; dominant seventh (Dominant seventh chord); subject (Subject (music)); tonic (Tonic (music); coda (Coda (music)); themes (Theme (arts)).


 * the dominant G minor – presumably 'dominant' (Dominant (music)) and 'G minor' need to be linked separately.


 * A minor point, but I believe bars 13 and 17 should have staccato dots above the notes.


 * To verify the excellent images you produced using Dorico, the source for each one needs to be added to its own WikiCommons page.


 * What is a 'chordal texture'?


 * What do abbreviations such as 'mm. 13f' stand for?

2.2 Scherzo: Molto vivace – Trio I – Trio II

 * The link for Scherzo is a general link about scherzos, i.e. it doesn’t lead to where you expect it to and should be removed.
 * Needs clarification; scherzo links to the article on the musical scherzo, which also covers scherzos as movements of larger works. intforce (talk) 10:46, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
 * You're right, it's fine as it is. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:34, 5 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Link Molto vivace (Tempo); staccato; keys (Key (music)).


 * The remarks made in the first sentence sound subjective (how do you define exuberance in music?). It might be a good idea to say whose ideas these are.


 * Who was Heine (his full name and occupation are both needed here)?


 * a "thoroughly Schumannesque series of sustained, syncopated chords in contrasting registers" – could this not be paraphrased? (I find WP:QUOTE very useful when tiptoeing through this minefield).

2.3 Andante cantabile

 * In the coda - unlink coda, as it has already been linked at the top of the section.


 * Who was Basil Smallman?


 * "surpassing lyricism", deeply romantic and song-like – whose opinion is this?


 * It has been called the highlight of the work, featuring "one of the most beautiful cello themes" of the Romantic period – by whom?


 * There are imo too many musical illustrations provided for this movement. The first variation is surely too similar to the cello’s theme to warrant being included here, and I would consider limiting the total number included to illustrate the movement to two.


 * Link transpositions (Transposition (music)).


 * General points to make about the article from WP:MOSMUSIC: 1. “Large images giving segments of music or depicting features of music should be displayed in thumbnails on the left or center of the page at 550px for visibility.”; 2. “Use an informative and concise caption and alternative text for each image.”;3. Generic movement titles (such as tempo markings or terms like minuet and trio) are capitalized with a single initial capital—that is, only the first word is capitalized—and are not italicized.
 * Amend final fourteen measures to ‘final 14 measures’,


 * with a luscious cello solo – who says it is luscious?

More to follow. AM

2.4 Finale: Vivace

 * Link exposition (Exposition (music)); development (Musical development);  A♭ major (A-flat major); recapitulation (Recapitulation (music)).


 * The finale – check the article for consistency in the way the movements are named (capital case or small case).

More to follow. Amitchell125 (talk) 07:24, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

3 Reception and legacy

 * Remove the duplicate links romantic (Romantic music) and Brahms.


 * Amend the public premiere to ‘the premiere’.


 * Remove on 8 December 1844 (already stated in the text).


 * Smallman notes should read ‘Smallman noted’, as the person has died. Ditto calls, recognizes.


 * Delete Nonetheless (see MOS:OP-ED).


 * a hundred years – ‘100 years’ (or ‘a century’).


 * after Schumann needs to be more specific – does it mean after his death, after he stopped composing chamber music, or after he stopped composing altogether?


 * Rephrase large keyboard ensembles, which is vague and so can be misread to mean different things to different readers.


 * considerable importance – why considerable?


 * of various backgrounds is redundant and should be edited out.


 * Amend particularly those to 'particularly those composers'.

5 External links and final remarks

 * I would remove the YouTube link, as the work already has a similar external audio link within the text.


 * As Schumann wrote more than one piano quartet, shouldn’t the title of the article be amended?
 * Technically yes, but this quartet is known as the Piano Quartet, as the earlier C minor quartet is virtually unknown and probably not notable in its own. They are also not called Piano Quartet No. 1 and 2. intforce (talk) 12:14, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Understood. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:41, 5 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Perhaps in a Further Reading section, I would consider including Brown’s article Study, Copy, and Conquer: Schumann’s 1842 Chamber Music and the Recasting of Classical Sonata Form; it explores the quartet in some depth.


 * The first edition of the quartet can be found here, courtesy of the Brahms-Institut. The page contains additional information that could be added to the article (e.g. the location of the original manuscript, and the fact that Schumann’s sketches for the work are now lost).

On hold
Hi, I'm placing the article on hold for a week until 12 April, to allow time for the above comments to be addressed. Please contact me if you want to discuss anything. Amitchell125 (talk) 11:29, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Passing the article
Passing now, many thanks for all your work, and for producing a highly readable and informative article. I'm off to practise my viola now, the quavers in the scherzo are really fast when you try to play them! Amitchell125 (talk) 13:44, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for the review! intforce (talk) 13:58, 5 April 2021 (UTC)