Talk:Piano Sonata No. 12 (Mozart)

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Gobbledygook
"a classic example of a fake-out of an essential expositional closure half-cadence postmedial caesura extending the secondary theme zone and deferring the essential expositional closure to the next perfect authentic cadence." Not having the original book (nor am I willing to pay $72 to get it), I have to ask, is this really what it says? Initially I suspected vandalism, but this is essentially the text as originally typed. To 99% of the readers of this article, this passage gets across precisely nothing except "we know more about music theory than you do"; even to me, a musician but not an expert in theory, it gets across something only by a lot of difficult labor. I am not saying encyclopedia articles should be dumbed-down, but they should be useful to non-experts. Is there no music theory expert out there who can express this in a way that actually imparts information to the reader? If not, does it not say a lot about our expertise if we can't explain things in a way that even a generally knowledgeable person can understand? 192.251.134.5 (talk) 12:34, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Structure of second movement
I would not say the slow movement is in ABA form. Where is the B? It is a simple form with two themes, repeated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.110.168.51 (talk) 02:54, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You're right. Zaslaw confirms.  Modified the description. Thanks.DavidRF (talk) 04:27, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Inconsistent date/place and movement descriptions
The Mozart Project website at the page http://www.mozartproject.org/compositions/ko_81_85.html says that the piece was conceived between 1781 and 1783 in either Munich or Vienna (along with K.330 and K.331). Therefore, the information on this page is inconsistent.

Also, I don't see why there should be a description for the first two movements but nothing for the third.

ICE77 (talk) 04:47, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
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 * Mozart; Piano Sonata No. 12, I. Allegro.ogg (discussion)
 * Mozart; Piano Sonata No. 12, II. Adagio.ogg (discussion)
 * Mozart; Piano Sonata No. 12, III. Allegro assai.ogg (discussion)

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 * Mozart; Piano Sonata No. 12, I. Allegro.ogg
 * Mozart; Piano Sonata No. 12, II. Adagio.ogg
 * Mozart; Piano Sonata No. 12, III. Allegro assai.ogg

"Sonatina form"
"The second movement is in B-flat major in an elaborately ornamented sonatina form."

What the heck does that mean? I have a Doctorate in music, taught music courses at the college level for a couple of decades and have never heard of a "sonatina form" applied to one movement. Furthermore, the link to "sonatina" does not mention the form of a single movement, only the form of an entire sonatina. I'm guessing the implication is that this movement is in the form described in Sonatina as follows:

"The first (or only) movement is generally in an abbreviated sonata form, with little or no development of the themes...[T]he exposition is followed immediately by a brief bridge passage to modulate back to the home key for the recapitulation."

This is not described in the article as "sonatina form," though, and the movement sounds like a fairly simple 2-part A-B-A1-B1-coda song form to me. The fact that B1 is in the tonic doesn't make it a quasi-sonata form. The way I see it, the rhetoric of the sonata form requires some kind of contrasting/development section, however mild or truncated.

In addition, there's no citation for this sentence. So what should we do about that? Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:01, 16 June 2022 (UTC)