Talk:Piano Sonata No. 5 (Beethoven)

Little Patethique nickname"
"Indeed, this sonata has been christened 'The Little Pathétique'"

By f%$*$#ing WHO?!?!?!?! -- (Special:Contributions/149.4.111.77)


 * OKAY, SERIOUSLY?! There is no citation. It is completely subjective. The comments, in general, are so general they could be said about ANY Sonata (not even just by Beethoven). And yet, when it gets removed it just arbitrarily gets called "vandalism." Does anyone actually fucking read??? -- (Special:Contributions/4.172.204.214)


 * I'm inclined to side with the anons here. I've never seen this nickname.  If its a real nickname, then someone should have used it.  There are many books on the Beethoven sonatas available for citing.  Wikipedia is the #1 google hit for this topic now, and we owe it to people to back up the facts here with citations.  Yes, there are similarities between the C minor works but they don't apply to just these two sonatas.  The slow movement of the 5th symphony is also in A flat. DavidRF (talk) 16:36, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to take out the other "Citations needed" though, because the descriptive phrases used, while they might have been original content (which I suspect it is), it's content which the citation would be completely useless to non-musicians... indeed, I can flip open the sheet music for both pieces of music, analyze it, and come to the same conclusion. I'm not sure how we're meant to treat this, however. If that content is not useful nor follows the guidelines here, then I would say the entire section gets nixed, since the comparison isn't a historical one, but rather something one can impute if one is a pianist. Buoren (talk) 10:12, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Screw it. There's no way to really add citations for something which would be considered "duh" for musicians and completely useless for others. I'm just nixing the whole section because in order to make it not subjective, by necessity the descriptions become as vague as to be utterly useless in layman terms. I've made some changes to take cultural considerations (after all, Beethoven was a Western composer with Western ideas of the major=happy, minor=sad biases) out of the equation in the previous edit, but after rereading it's just not useful to someone trying to make a comparison between the Pathetique and the Tempest. ...which is what the real nickname is, but I was taught this by my piano teacher in 1991. Before the internet. Right about here I jumped the shark and confused the two. I'm only actually familiar with the first movement so I can only actually comment on what the previous author said about it. But my opinion that the whole section should be nixed still stands...

Buoren (talk) 10:21, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Piano Sonata No. 1 (Beethoven) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 13:15, 30 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Note the date of the foregoing notice. The discussion, now long closed, concerned whether to move the sonata articles to new titles incorporating opus numbers. The conclusion was not to do so. Drhoehl (talk) 23:16, 12 March 2012 (UTC)