Talk:Pieter Pourbus

Copyright violation
User:Emigré55 has added a large amount of copyrighted material to this article from Pieter Pourbus, Master painter of Gouda, 2018, Catalogue of the exhibition Feb.17 - June 17 2108 at Museum Gouda, ISBN 9789072660121. On p. 84 of this publication, it is stated: "all rights reserved". For examples, this edit is an apparent word-for-word copy of pp. 31–32; this edit, pp. 11–20; this edit, pp. 20–26; and this edit, pp. 26–27. I reverted the article to the version before this editor began making changes on 7 March 2020 with edit summary "remove what appears to be a copy-paste job", a change which the user promptly reverted. Since so much of the article is affected and very few edits by other editors have been made, I feel it is best to revert to that version again. --Robert.Allen (talk) 22:08, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Copyright granted today by the copyright holder
The following email was sent today at my request to the Wikifoundation, as requested:
 * "Geachte heer Allen,
 * Hierbij bevestig ik dat ik, Marc de Beyer, directeur Museum Gouda, de maker en / of enige eigenaar ben van het exclusieve copyright van de publicatie Pourbus, meester-schilder uit Gouda (Pourbus, Master painter of Gouda)
 * zoals hier gebruikt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Emigr%C3%A955?markasread=186487124&markasreadwiki=enwiki#Copyright_violation_at_Pieter_Pourbus, en ik heb de wettelijke bevoegdheid om het copyright van dat werk vrij te geven.
 * Ik ga ermee akkoord om de bovengenoemde inhoud te publiceren onder de gratis licentie: Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported en GNU Free Documentation License (niet-versie, zonder invariante secties, front-coverteksten of back-coverteksten).
 * Ik erken dat ik hiermee iedereen het recht verleen om het werk al dan niet in een commercieel product te gebruiken en het aan te passen aan hun behoeften, op voorwaarde dat ze zich houden aan de voorwaarden van de licentie en andere toepasselijke wetten.
 * Ik ben me ervan bewust dat deze overeenkomst niet beperkt is tot Wikipedia of gerelateerde sites.
 * Ik ben me ervan bewust dat ik altijd het copyright van mijn werk behoud en het recht behoudt om te worden toegewezen in overeenstemming met de gekozen licentie. Wijzigingen die anderen in het werk aanbrengen, zullen niet door mij worden geclaimd.
 * Ik erken dat ik deze overeenkomst niet kan intrekken en dat de inhoud al dan niet permanent op een Wikimedia-project wordt bewaard.
 * Met vriendelijke groet,
 * Marc de Beyer
 * Directeur
 * 0182 331000
 * Museum Gouda
 * Achter de Kerk 14"

which translates as follows:
 * "Dear Mr. Allen,
 * I hereby confirm that I, Marc de Beyer, director Museum Gouda, am the maker and / or sole owner of the exclusive copyright of the publication Pourbus, master painter from Gouda (Pourbus, Master painter of Gouda) as used here: :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Emigr%C3%A955?markasread=186487124&markasreadwiki=enwiki#Copyright_violation_at_Pieter_Pourbus, and I have legal authority to release the copyright of that work.
 * I agree to publish the above content under the free license: Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported and GNU Free Documentation License (non-version, without invariant sections, front cover texts or back cover texts).
 * I acknowledge that I hereby grant anyone the right to use the work in a commercial product or not and adapt it to their needs, provided they comply with the terms of the license and other applicable laws.
 * I am aware that this agreement is not limited to Wikipedia or related sites.
 * I am aware that I always retain the copyright of my work and the right to be assigned in accordance with the chosen license. Changes that others make to the work will not be claimed by me.
 * I acknowledge that I cannot revoke this agreement and that the content may or may not be permanently stored on a Wikimedia project."

I will of course continue to edit the article to eliminate any controversial issue, and in particular rewrite sections which might be too close to the originally cited articles of this catalogue, which is the most complete and comprehensive source to date for this painter, who was the most important painter of Bruges during the 16th century.

--Emigré55 (talk) 11:37, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Additional confirmation of copyright granted, after request of Robert ALLEN
The following email was sent today by the copyright holder to Robert Allen, in order to confirm that there is no copyright violation:
 * ''"Dear Allen,
 * The publication that is quoted from on the Pourbus-wiki site is a publically available, scholarly publication.
 * ''I have never ever before had to grant permission to quoting from a widely available publication.
 * Especially not if the author refers to the book and the specific text parts, as was the case.
 * So please, let the author quote our publication in the normal way.
 * Many thanks,
 * Marc de Beyer
 * Director
 * Museum Gouda"''

--Emigré55 (talk) 08:15, 23 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, this email is insufficient, since it does not grant the required license. If the museum director has indeed granted a suitable license by sending that information directly to Wikipedia, then, it is my understanding that someone from OTRS will post a notice of it here. --Robert.Allen (talk) 17:03, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I will also leave a response at Copyright problems/2020 April 16. --Robert.Allen (talk) 10:37, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Further information on copyright granted to Wikipedia on April 16th
(Copy of the entry witten here) Contrary to the above statement (of Robert Allen), Museum Gouda granted copyright permission according to Wikipedia requirements. This permission was sent to wiki@wikimedia.org by the director of the museum in 2 emails: I took the time to include this second permission in the talk page of the article on the same day at 16:37. I forwarded the second email to permissions-en@wikimedia.org on April 21, 2020 at 18:18, after having received the following request: ''please make sure the copyright holder sends an email to permissions-en@wikimedia.org, preferably using this template. --MrClog (talk) 09:11, 20 April 2020 (UTC)''(see above) My email was received as evidenced by the following reference in the header if the automatic response: [Ticket#2020042110009381] Confirmation of receipt (Re: Pieter Pourbus - Pub [...]) I find it very unfortunate, to say the least, that Robert Allen : As to allegations that the present text does not meet copy requirements, I have already stated, and repeat here, that the text is under new editing now, which can also be seen by numerous new amendments brought since the page was reinstated. This work is time consuming, and as I seem to be the only contributor so far for this, I ask time to complete this task. I wish to conclude that this article is an important article on this painter, which is the most important painter of his time in the city of Bruges, which in its turn is known world wide. This article replaced a very poor and very short entry on this painter, and now offers to all readers the most complete information and iconography on this painter, according to the most recent and most complete source. --Emigré55 (talk) 11:29, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * the first email concerns the painting "Annunciation", and is dated April 16,2020 at 11:19.
 * the second email concerns the text of the exhibition catalogue, is dated April 16,2020 at 11:20, and sent to wiki@wikimedia.org (I was cc'd in this email).
 * did not check first on the talk page of this article,
 * did not send any email to me, at any stage of the controverse he raised, and still is raising, simply to alert me beforehand,
 * did not merely answer to me, whereas I also had the courtesy, and took the time, to write to him 3 times on the subject on his talk page, and again today at 8:15.

Guild(s?)
Qoute from the article. "Pourbus was also a very active member of the Bruges Guild of Sculptors and Saddlers." Yet, Guild_of_Saint_Luke states that Saint Luke in Bruge was the guild of painters and other artists, as well as of saddlers. This would mean that Pourbus wasn't "also" member of "Bruges Guild of Sculptors and Saddlers", but that it is one and the same guild. Also, the article doesn't say Pourbus was a sculptor or a saddler, so why would then be part of such guild? I believe there is a mistake introduced here. Eissink (talk) 22:10, 31 August 2020 (UTC).