Talk:Pillbox (military)

construction
They're not always made of concrete. Some are made of wood, metal, or sandbags.TheFlarbar (talk) 14:42, 15 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Your source for this statement? For example a Sangar is not a pill box. -- PBS (talk) 19:01, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

I researched this today, albeit only for pillboxes in Southern England. Almost all were made from concrete. It looks like the military's building instructions stated "concrete" as the best component (see http://pillboxes-suffolk.webeden.co.uk/#/pillbox-construction/4556138817). However, as you might expect some were not made from concrete. Some were made either of brick (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLRf4hVf1x8 or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKWdhMCeHyA) or other substances that were close at hand such as stone (Google "John's PSG Somerset Pillbox Walk"). I'm not sure what the one in the main picture of this page is made from either! Of course, I guess there's a chance that those not made from concrete were not directly built by the military...? mattwinner 15:07, 12 February 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattwinner (talk • contribs)

By definition a pillbox is hardened and usually made of poured concrete, or in some cases in the UK concrete filled sandbags. Anything else would be called a strongpoint or infantry post. The external appearance of UK pillboxes can be misleading, the brick one mentioned above is concrete poured between brick wall shuttering. Brick was used because wood for shuttering was in very short supply in 1940. Local stone was used as shuttering in some locations for the same reason and to aid with camouflage. Stthomse (talk) 15:51, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

The images show Pillboxes made of Bricks and different sorts of stone. So the intial claim Pillboxes are concrete ... is clearly wrong.--WerWil (talk) 18:42, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

To reiterate my previous comment the external appearance of pillboxes is misleading in terms of their construction. The external material is just shuttering for the concrete pour. Bricks, wood, corrugated iron and local stone were commonly used externally and internally with concrete being poured between them, usually with some rebar. The standard concrete thickness specified by the FW3 plans is 1.5ft for bulletproof protection an 3.5ft for shell proof protection. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stthomse (talk • contribs) 11:47, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Medium sized shells
"nearby explosion of even medium (240mm)" Am I getting this totally wrong, or 240mm is quite a heavy artillery? Like an entry level of "as heavy as it gets" class of artillery. In a WWI period for field guns light guns where around 37-50 mm, typical field gun was three inch, six inch was heavy artillery and 8 inch and above is special type that would be attached to the Army level or higher. Considering that 203 mm shell would make a crater 5-7 m in diameter and more that 2 meters deep, being knocked over by 240 mm shell explosion would hardly be a weakness.Artur Zinatullin (talk) 10:28, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Images
Might delete some images. I find they're too much for me. Maybe some talking is needed? SpacedShark (talk) 00:20, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Maginot Line
I think that this sentence: "The exception were the concrete blockhouses, gun turrets, pillboxes and cupolas which were placed above ground to allow the garrison of the Maginot line to engage an attacking enemy." should be changed to be more inclusive to other fortifications made of metal. In the article on the Maginot Line, I found this: Armoured cloches There are several kinds of armoured cloches. Cloches are non-retractable turrets. The word cloche is a French term meaning bell due to its shape. All cloches were made of alloy steel.

The most widespread are the GFM cloches, where GFM means Guetteur fusil-mitrailleur (machine-gun sentry). They are composed of three to four openings, called crenels or embrasures. These crenels may be equipped as follows: light machine-guns, direct vision blocks, binoculars blocks or 50 mm (2.0 in) mortars. Sometimes, the cloche is topped by a periscope. There are 1,118 GFM cloches on the line. Almost every block, casemate and shelter is topped by one or two GFM cloches. The JM cloches (jumelage de mitrailleuses or "twin machine-guns") are the same as the GFM cloches except that they have one opening equipped with a pair of machine-guns. There are 174 JM cloches on the line. There are 72 AM cloches (armes mixtes or "mixed weapons") on the line, equipped with a pair of machine guns and a 25 mm (1.0 in) anti-tank gun. Some GFM cloches were transformed into AM cloches in 1934. (The aforementioned total does not include these modified cloches.) There are 75 LG cloches (lance-grenade or "grenade launcher") on the line. Those cloches are almost completely covered by concrete, with only a small hole to launch grenades through for local defence. There are 20 VP cloches (vision périscopique or "periscopic vision") on the line. These cloches could be equipped with several different periscopes. Like the LG cloches, they were almost completely covered by concrete. The VDP cloches (vision directe et périscopique or "direct and periscopic vision") are similar to the VP cloches, but have two or three openings to provide a direct view. Consequently, they were not covered by concrete.

They all linked to this source: ISBN 2-908182-97-1.

This might come up against the issue of using other articles as sources, but I think that this might be damning enough. Any suggestions? SpacedShark (talk) 00:54, 23 February 2022 (UTC)