Talk:Pilot (Fringe)

Cast List
Why does it keep getting deleted? It would seem to me to be nifty and useful for the article, as the first episode of the series, to list and describe the cast, not unlike appears in other tv episodic articles. - Hexhand (talk) 17:20, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, cast lists are usually reserved for the television article's main page. Within an episode article, the cast is generally within the plot description, like Pilot (House).  Not that I removed the cast list here, I just thought I might comment.  Cliff smith  talk  17:56, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No, you make a valid point, Cliff, and I appreciate you taking the time to bring your concerns here. I took some time to look around at a lot of other "Pilot" episode articles, and the majority of them don't list cast in bulletpoint fashion. Most expand upon them either in Production or in its own subsection, in the terms of a quick characterization and the actor's take on portrayal (cited of course). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hexhand (talk • contribs) 18:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup
Some general things that need to be done to the article:


 * 1) The plot needs to be tightened up, it contains some extraneous details (e.g. quoting dialogue, specific scene details). It should be a summary of what is happening. Look at this sentence--"While she races back to the hospital, Scott awakens and suffocates kills the twin brother, also in the same hospital before attempting to escape He is chased by Dunham and eventually crashes, overturning his vehicle."--Not the best use of the English language. The section needs serious work. Secondly, it should be titled "Plot", as you aren't providing a brief description of what is going on, but summarizing all of the events of the pilot. Synopses are shorter that general plot summaries, and usually don't contain spoilers.
 * 2) List and link all of the actors' names in the plot section, next to their respective roles. This includes anyone whose character name is listed in the plot (not matter how small).
 * 3) That promotional image needs to come out of the plot section. It can go in the infobox for the article.
 * 4) Merge all those one-sentence paragraphs in the "Production" section. One should not have one-sentence paragraphs, as it is unprofessional writing.
 * 5) Bump that Nielsen ratings info down into the "Reception" section, as the fact that 9 million people watched the show from start to finish (or at least kept their TVs on the show) indicates how the public received the show.
 * 6) The reception section needs cleanup. There is too much direct quoting going on. Wikipedia should not be a mirror for other sites, we should be paraphrasing these critics. This one--"Tim Goodman, of the San Francisco calls the pilot "bloated" and "good but not great". Wondering whether Torv can handle the weight and emotional range of dramatic portrayal, and that Noble's portrayal of Dr.Bishop is "insufferably campy", Goodman recommended that the series could be improved by Noble "dialing back" his portrayal and allowing Torv's character to bloom without romantic involvement."--is a good example of what you should do. Everyone else seems mostly to be in the format of, "Critic X said, 'blah blah blah'." You might also want to think about re-reading those reviews and finding more substance to put in the article. Simple saying, "Critic X thought it sucked", does nothing for the reader. Context is everything. Try making sure you get good, strong sentences (or even compound sentences) out of these reviews. Not those simple statements that are currently there.

I was thrilled to see reviews from reputable sources (e.g. not TV Squad or BuddyTV and their hack, fan writers).  BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  12:32, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow, what an awesome assessment, Bignole! That was exactly what we needed. :) Speaking for myself, I will address your concerns right away. Feel free to contribute as you will. :) - Hexhand (talk) 14:36, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Quick note, since this seems to be becoming a back and forth issue. Per WP:LEAD, we should not link bolded indentifiers in the lead sentence.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  18:01, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Images
I've cropped a couple of screen captures from the pilot and uploaded them to PhotoBucket. The link to them is located here. As it appears that the promotional image for the series might have some fiar use problems (probably decorative or #6)I am going to upload at least one of these captures to Wikipedia, to be used in the infobox or body of the article, but would want to get some input as to which image other folks think best demonstrates the article. Thoughts? - Hexhand (talk) 14:45, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * All images (even screenshots) must meet the fair use criteria, and have critical commentary. Posters are one of the few things allowed in the infobox that don't need direct commentary, as they are usually created to embody the entirety of what they are promoting. Whereas, find a "screenshot" that represents the entire article is somewhat subjective and would require commentary detailing why that image is necessary.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  14:52, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't the argument versus the promo image be that the image doesn't specifically identify the subject of the article, but rather the series itself? I've uploaded an image of Torv as Dunham in the sensory deprivation tank, as it is something specific to the episode. A more poetic sould than I could intimate that it represents her immersion into fringe science, but I would never say that, as it would be utter OR :P. - Hexhand (talk) 15:08, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Request for project input
This is getting us no where. I've posted at the TV project for additional opinions per the dispute resolution process (since its 3 of us disagreeing, 3O wasn't an appropriate option). -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 19:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Could you provide a link to that post? - Hexhand (talk) 20:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Still waitingon that link, AnmaFinotera. Would you mind terribly taking a moment and posting it, please? - Hexhand (talk) 22:40, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * AnmaFinotera's post.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  22:46, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. - Hexhand (talk) 23:09, 17 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I have neither watched this episode nor read this article (don't want to spoil the fun until it airs in my country) but what about putting the Massive Dynamics EL into a footnote and leave it out of the EL section? That would/could give the right amount of weight to it and please both parties. (Ignore this comment if I am talking rubbish.) – sgeureka t•c 20:29, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It isn't a bad idea, Sgeureka. What do others think? - Hexhand (talk) 20:39, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't agree. A footnote is something that either explains a point that can't be or is too complicated to be explained inline. The website does no such thing. I fail to understand how the link expands the article's information production, viewer perception etc. of the episode. As for expansion on plot, the website provides no details on any of the storylines in the plot. It simply is a marketing gimmick. LeaveSleaves (talk) 03:55, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Even though it is a marketing gimmick (like a website, as used in Blair Witch, etc.), that doesn't negate its usefulness, and the fact that it is initiated immediately in the series. Such was not done with Lost. That the viral marketing (as well as the rest of the bag of tricks) was initiated from the get-go suggests that it is deserving of mention. - Hexhand (talk) 15:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * My thinking was that I'd prefer to external-link to this website in the article text, but when I did just this in one of my FACs a year ago (also a non-EL-section-worthy external link that had relevance for a sentence), it was pointed out to me that the only option to include that EL in the article was to use a footnote. I am just passing on this solution, and have no invested interest in the Fringe EL otherwise. – sgeureka t•c 17:45, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have a link to that article, so we can see an example of you are suggesting? - Hexhand (talk) 18:22, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

The external website of the "company"
OH boy I just clicked on that and it took me to a website and may have been infected with a virus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wtin (talk • contribs) 03:58, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

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