Talk:Pinch harmonic

Pinch Harmonic

 *  moved from - of all places - WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals. No, I don't know why it was posted there either. Grutness...wha?  13:05, 26 December 2005 (UTC) 

Right now, the article for Pinch harmonic doesn't give any specific instructions on how pinch harmonics is accomplished by a guitarist. --24.20.181.127 07:46, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

First, Wikipedia is not a collection of instruction manuals. Secondly, the introduction does explain that the "nail or thumb slightly catches the string after it is picked, creating a high pitched sound in any position" and the strangely title section Pinch harmonic further describes that "A pinch harmonic is produced by rubbing your picking thumb against the string as you pick it." Hyacinth 13:33, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Where's any mention of Roy Buchanan? 70.231.235.33 13:01, 9 September 2007 (UTC)Richard in SF

There are recordings of Chet Atkins and Les Paul doing pinch harmonics from way before 1962, and even they were probably not the first to discover pinch harmonics, so attributing them to Roy Buchanan is totally inaccurate (as great of a guitar player as he was). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.165.54.33 (talk) 19:05, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

this guy who is speaking above is not right ,He doesn't know what he says, yes!, the inventor of the pinch harmonics was and will be Mr Roy Buchanan, what both Chet Atkins and Les Paul doing, was artificial harmonics, please put the example before talking about ,  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kinghawaii (talk • contribs) 22:47, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Horribly substandard language
This page deserves to be tagged as substandard. The language is too informal. For example, it uses the second person to address the reader ("you should..."). 165.123.140.215 16:45, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I am not a native speaker of English and I notice that the language is still crap nonetheless. I mean who uses sencences like "Overtones ... will share the nodes of the lower overtone, so won't be muted"? --White rotten rabbit (talk) 18:13, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Lists of examples
The once helpful list of examples has turned into an "insert your favorite artist here" monster list. It would probably be easier to just list the artists who don't use pinch harmonics. If this isn't going to be limited to a few representative artists and songs (which is probably impossible to do, given how subjective such a list would have to be), I think we should at least alphabetize the lists to give some order to them and not make it appear as though some artists are more deserving of recognition as pinch harmonicists than others.-Jefu 06:57, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I think maybe it just needs to go. I see no particular purpose for it, and thinning the list would be pretty subjective. It really is just an "insert your favorite artist here" thing, unless the artist has been noted particularly for being very technically proficient and using pinch harmonics in a significant, innovative, or notable way (e.g. Satriani). That might be a reasonable alternative to the list we have now, which is horrible. Cheeser1 22:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I cleaned out alot of them. There should not be 30 (relatively) obscure metal bands on the list, nor should the list be very long. I realize my choices are to some extent arbitary (and like anything anyone does, biased), but I tried to leave only the more notable ones on the list (e.g. Satriani). I hope others agree, and I'll be trying to maintain the list, keeping it relevant, small, and cleaned up. Cheeser1 20:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the list should be kept short, however I feel that there should be more bands of different genres, and ones who used pinch harmonics more prominently in their music, and are known for it. The list can be a little longer than it is in order to provide a more broad coverage. I added a Dragonforce song, but it was reverted. They have very highly regarded guitarists who use pinch harmonics prominently in many of their songs, thus I feel they deserve a place on the list. Pantera do too, though I don't really know enough about them to pick the best examples, just that Darrel used them a lot, and the few Pantera things I've heard confirm that. Finally, if there is a whole section of the article for their use in death metal, perhaps one or two of the "pioneering" bands should be listed, but I very much dislike death metal, so I couldn't list one - perhaps someone else can. I'll re-add Dragonforce with a more well known / better example. SouperAwesome 08:14, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Not being funny. But why the hell is Kerry King not on this list? For those of you wondering who Kerry King is, he's one of the best thrash metal players to ever walk the earth, and his solo's are trademark examples of squealing pinch harmonics. If you want an idea of a Kerry King solo listen to the solo to Anthem (we are the fire) by Trivium... Its a blatant rip of Kerry's style 81.158.72.206 13:42, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's cos the list is reserved for well known songs that people will have heard and recognise, not some obscure guy nobody's ever heard of, regardless of how good at they may be.--User:KX36 17:47, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Techniques - Pinch Harmonics (rewritten)
I have rewritten this section; standardising terminology, rephrasing things, adding punctuation, adding information and generally improving it in every way :-D. I have also removed the section about Billy Gibbons and Brian May using coins as plectrums to enhance their pinch harmonics; they do it purely for image. Coins make very bad plectrums, they don't have pointy tips and they dont have any give in them, meaning they're harder to use and wear down strings incredibly quickly (weakening them often to the point of snapping).--KX36 18:53, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I like the rewrite, but it still needs sourcing (as does most of this article). I don't know if I'm going to tag it as unsourced, sicne it does have some external links that may qualify as sources, but it would be good for us to source it a bit better at some point. Cheeser1 20:05, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * "For example, to produce a pinch harmonic one octave higher than the fundamental of a string stopped at the third fret of a guitar, the string must be plucked halfway between the third fret and the bridge (i.e., the 15th fret, as fret spacing is logarithmic). Other overtones of the same fundamental note may be produced in the same way at other nodes along the string." -- This is wrong. What matters is where you touch the string after plucking it to dampen the fundamental, not where you pluck it. Philgoetz (talk) 01:42, 25 May 2013 (UTC)


 * It may be implied that 'plucking' the string in this context is with proper pinch harmonic technique (since having discrete movements of plucking then dampening the string would not result in a 'proper' pinch harmonic). That said, the section in question should be modified for clarity. Perhaps also cite the fret placement. The silence (talk) 01:08, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Clean up
This article needs clean up. Alot of sentences are mashed together incoherently, the wording is poor, there are no sources, and it's getting a bit out of control. Wikipedia isn't a database of lists, nor is it a how-to guide. We need to keep that in mind. I've cut the lists. Anyone who uses the technique notably can be included in the body of the article. If you can't put somebody's name in there without a good reason as to why they are notably associated with pinch harmonics, they do not belong in this article. The other things that need to be done are: (1) Cut out unnecessary how-to material (this may have been cut at some point - I forget), (2) reorganize article structure based on remaining content, (3) reword poorly written parts (the whole thing?) and (4) properly source claims that need sourcing. --Cheeser1 04:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I will be doing as much of this as I can find the time for. I appreciate other people's input, of course, and would love to see some of this work taken off my hands. --Cheeser1 04:16, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Sound to Signature
I don't think 'signature' is completely accurate here, yet I think it is stronger than 'sound'.

NantucketNoon 02:06, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Random artists thrown into the text
Throughout the entire text of the article, there are many guitarists, groups, and genres mentioned. They don't seem to be a complete listing, or even a listing of particularly notable guitarists/bands/genres -- and there are a lot of glaring omissions (like Leslie West's early 1970s work in Mountain which was full of the stuff). I'm not sure how to best clean it up though - does anyone else have any ideas? Luminifer (talk) 02:29, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Deleted Marcus Fenix from the list of guitarists. To my knowledge, there is no guitarist named Marcus Fenix, google comes up with no results and wikipedia does not have an article for him. Only Marcus Fenix I know of is from the Gears of War series. 173.54.225.181 (talk) 00:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Name?
I always knew these as pick harmonics, not pinch harmonics - in fact, the way I play them involves no pinching at all. A quick google shows that both names are valid, but it seems like 'pick harmonic' is actually more common. Any thoughts? Luminifer (talk) 04:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Pinch harmonic is a bit of a misnomer, but talk to 99% of electric guitarists, and they'll call it a pinch harmonic.173.54.225.181 (talk) 00:05, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I ask because I've never actually heard someone in person call it that. Luminifer (talk) 05:21, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the IP address man, pinch harmonic is the informal term used by guitarists, and a new player looking for information on the technique would be done a service by being instructed to call it by the name 'pinch'. The physical technique somewhat resembles a pinch (or, at least, 'pinching' the string in two at the correct point to divide the vibrations by a ratio, if you get what I mean). No, it is not literally pinched, but many guitar terms are illogically named (tremolo/vibrato for instance)

Or, hard evidence, as the technique is refered to as 'pinch' by the following notable websites: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/guitar_techniques/pinch_harmonics.html http://www.cyberfret.com/techniques/harmonics/pinch/index.php http://www.expertvillage.com/video/1692_metal-pinch-harmonics.htm http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/pinch-harmonics/

Contrast with a google search for 'pick harmonics', while predictably turning up results, does not list many popular guitar instruction websites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.89.156.222 (talk) 14:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Merge with artifical harmonic
I suggest this article be merged with that for Artificial harmonic - most of the information is the same, and this article has a lot more detail which applies to both articles. Luminifer (talk) 15:22, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Removal of material
Someone has just removed much material from this page. Some tags were removed (as "unnecessary" with no explanation). Some material was also removed with the excuse that it was original research, but then was replaced by other original research. Can someone please either remove all original research, reinstate the article, or explain how this change is actually an improvement? Luminifer (talk) 05:21, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Frets
The technique is possible on any fretted stringed instrument

Why does it require frets? 151.200.47.86 (talk) 16:16, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect Information
"It is important to note that as only one fundamental sounds..." Wrong, wrong, wrong. There's only ever a maximum of one fundamental for any fretted note. A full-on pinch gets rid of it in favor of one of the overtones and a small mix of its upper friends, so the total number of sounding fundamentals during this procedure is usually zero, unless sort of a half-pinch is executed, which just de-emphasizes the amount of fundamental heard in favor of the overtones. Note: doing the latter consistently is a bit more difficult than a full pinch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.152.225.21 (talk) 09:01, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Bias on thumbs and redundant data from the Guitar Harmonics page
I changed the guitar harmonics page, rewording it so its not saying you must use your thumb, I suggest the same here, but this page and that have the same data otherwise, and seems a bit redundant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The reddish (talk • contribs) 15:31, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

frets
"...possible on any fretted stringed instrument..." There's need for frets, don't ask for sources... a.sorel 92.144.12.110 (talk) 11:09, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Nonsense. I play fretless bass (fingerstyle, too) and have no problem pulling out a harmonic overtone. Weeb Dingle (talk) 07:51, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
 * To clarify — with fingerstyle bass, it's actually similar to guitar. Finger motion is pretty much as when you snap your fingers. The thumb becomes the damping point, while the second finger is the "plectrum." I think I swiped this trick from an old Tim Bogert column in Guitar Player. Weeb Dingle (talk) 03:55, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

notable, or not
I've played fretted instruments since like 1973, and was already a huge fan of Joe Walsh and Leslie West before that new Billy Gibbons guy was ever heard on the radio, specifically "Francine".

Gibbons was hardly first to use the trick, BUT he inarguably made it a big part of his style (in solos and fills). Guitar players for YEARS told me to my face that Gibbons was using some sort of electronic effect to get that overtone ring, and many would stick to that argument even after I demonstrated how to do it!

Though I'm hardly a credible source for reference, I'd happily argue that it was Gibbons alone who made this trick a part of the modern guitar technique, and all who came after are merely followers.

As I've said elsewhere, if anyone can do it, or everyone does it, then it's NOT notable, and therefore the article should be removed. There's no sharply defined history, no date of discover, no sole clear inventor. Nobody owns the copyright. Therefore, EVERY name added to the list of "users" is another nail in the coffin.

And tossing in generous dollops of fanboy nonsense about "how it's properly done" is only better in the sense that the nails are somewhat smaller. Weeb Dingle (talk) 04:13, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

stuff I'm deleting
Begin with By using string bending, a whammy bar, a wah-wah pedal, or other effects, electric guitarists are able to modulate the pitch, frequency, and timbre of pinch harmonics, resulting in a variety of sounds. That gratuitous statement pretty much sums up ALL guitar-playing: By using string bending, a whammy bar, a wah-wah pedal, or other effects, electric guitarists are able to modulate the pitch, frequency, and timbre of the instrument, resulting in a variety of sounds. It goes away now.

Then Pinch harmonics are used extensively in death metal. Groovy; an excellent case for eliminating any subsequent "here's yet another guy who does it" statements. Ditto for The technique is also used commonly in other subgenres of heavy metal.

Assertion counts for nothing in WP: Another prime example of this technique being utilized by Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead can be heard in "Loser" from their May 8, 1977 show. With no citation, it's conjecture, therefore gone. More will follow. Weeb Dingle (talk) 04:28, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Getting rid of remaining whammy bar references as needless jargon, not to mention making guitar players sound even more like chuckleheads. Weeb Dingle (talk) 04:37, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Nope: Joe Satriani's signature "Satch Scream" etc. Nope; would need a source for the term, AND that it's "signature" somehow, AND that it's indeed used on the cited song, AND then the remainder of the statement runs afoul of WP:NOHOWTO. Weeb Dingle (talk) 05:05, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

questionable "info"
Every time I scan this article, something leaps out and tries to bite me. For instance, The outcome of this is that if a node is directly over a pickup, it won't sound through that pickup. The vast majority of inflection points are indeed quite narrow, but these repeat down the string, so where a string is stopped is immaterial so long as it rings. And pickups by comparison are massive, so "directly over a pickup" claims a precision that doesn't exist. Weeb Dingle (talk) 05:27, 2 May 2017 (UTC)