Talk:Pinki Virani

Editing request from the subject of the article
The article's subject has posted requests for change on her user talk page (User talk:Pinki Virani). I will copy and paste her request below so it will be seen by all interested editors. please add your future requests for edits here on this page and not on your own user talk page. --bonadea contributions talk 07:34, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Attn Ms Bonadea & All Wiki Editors
Thanks Ms Bonadea for your reply. Tried yesterday to upload all the points at once [am, obviously, a bit challenged in this department and it did not work :-)]. Will try and do this one correction at a time. There are 5, so it will take 5 days. Am sure Wiki will appreciate that my work is not one-dimensional -- I am not just a bestselling Author [in itself a huge achievement], as is obvious -- and Wiki will be equally interested in conveying the facts. Correction 1 with explanation for why so.

Pinki Virani (born 30 January 1959) is an Indian writer, journalist, human-rights activist and author who has won critical acclaim for her books Once Was Bombay; Aruna's Story: The True Story Of A Rape & Its Aftermath; Bitter Chocolate: Child Sexual Abuse in India (which won the National Award), Deaf Heaven[1] and Politics Of The Womb -- The Perils Of Ivf, Surrogacy & Modified Babies (which is a global-first in international book publishing)[2]. The activist-author has also been a part of two of India’s landmark laws: POCSO (protection of children from sexual abuse) and Passive Euthanasia.

Explanation for above: have given full names of the books even though she does not just write books. Proof of the Passive Euthanasia Law is already attached by Wiki on this page in the form of the Supreme Court judgement. That the author-activist has contributed towards the POCSO Act passed in 2012 is very well-known and acknowledged. Google any interview with her on the subject of child sexual abuse from 2010 to 2012 and you will see. Furthermore, the whole thing is documented in the 25th [silver] edition of the book “Bitter Chocolate” which was updated. Nevertheless, here is the latest link. Please the relevant question under proposed regulatory mechanisms and the answer.

That Politics Of The Womb is a global-first in international publishing is [a] in the catalogue of the publishers, Penguin Random House [b] on the back-cover of the book [c] on all the press releases, posters, bookmarks [d] on the facebook page of both, the publishers and the book itself [e] on Twitter everywhere, including announced by the publishers [f] within the article you have linked as #2.]

Pinki Virani (talk) 06:01, 2 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Just a very brief response: Wikipedia relies on secondary sources, especially for information such as whether a person has had an influence on legislation. Interviews with the person him- or herself are never sufficient for that. Secondly, the phrase "global first in international publishing" is an empty marketing phrase, suitable for press releases and posters but not for Wikipedia. Press releases, posters, publisher catalogues, Facebook and Twitter are all primary sources, thus not useful for Wikipedia's purposes, and we cannot use the publisher's words - their object is to sell, ours is to inform.


 * Before posting any further requests, please familiarise yourself with Wikipedia's policy on neutrality and that onverifiability. Thank you. --bonadea contributions talk 07:52, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Secondary source on Global-First
Pinki Virani (born 30 January 1959) is an Indian writer, journalist, human-rights activist and author who has won critical acclaim for her books Once Was Bombay; Aruna's Story: The True Story Of A Rape & Its Aftermath; Bitter Chocolate: Child Sexual Abuse in India (which won the National Award), Deaf Heaven[1] and Politics Of The Womb -- The Perils Of Ivf, Surrogacy & Modified Babies (which is a global-first in international book publishing)[2]. The activist-author has also been a part of two of India’s landmark laws: POCSO (protection of children from sexual abuse) and Passive Euthanasia.

[Explanation for above: have given full names of the books even though she does not just write books. Proof of the Passive Euthanasia Law is already attached by Wiki on this page in the form of the Supreme Court judgement. That the author-activist has contributed towards the POCSO Act passed in 2012 is very well-known and acknowledged. Google any interview with her on the subject of child sexual abuse from 2010 to 2012 and you will see. Furthermore, the whole thing is documented in the 25th [silver] edition of the book “Bitter Chocolate” which was updated. Nevertheless, here is the latest link. Please the relevant question under proposed regulatory mechanisms and the answer.

That Politics Of The Womb is a global-first is also given as secondary source, which appears to be overlooked by some Wiki editors. It is within the article you have linked as #2.

Pinki Virani (talk) 07:30, 4 October 2016 (UTC)


 * This is a late reply, but the article has been off my radar for a while: That a journalist chooses to pick up a phrasing from the publisher does not make it an encyclopedic fact, and we still have no idea what they mean by "global first". It has to be the first something, we don't know what that is, and not even the publishers bother to mention it - that's what I meant by its being an empty phrase. --bonadea contributions talk 09:12, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Influence on legislation
Please note that in order to include the information that a person has had an influence on legislation, there has to be very strong support by independent reliable sources. An interview where the person makes the claim is not such a source, a statement by an individual journalist or columnist also does not count, and a Wikipedia editor cannot draw the conclusion themselves - that would be original research. This is in reference to this edit which has since been reverted. --bonadea contributions talk 08:03, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Works: Politics of the Womb
I made an edit to this entry, and then realized that maybe I should have discussed it on the talk page first. The previous entry implied that the book argues against all forms of IVF and surrogacy - this is misleading. I added text to clarify that book argues against commercial surrogacy and repeated IVF only. --Ngkabra (talk) 13:00, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Your edit makes sense to me. In general, the principle to follow is Bold, Revert, Discuss - you make an edit (boldly), and if somebody reverts it, it's time to discuss on the talk page. Of course, if you're not sure whether your edit is useful in the first place you can discuss it beforehand, but otherwise it's usually fine to go ahead and make improvements. Since what you added is discussed in the sources, and it is, as you say, a clarification of something that might otherwise be misleading, I see no problems with it. --bonadea contributions talk 13:09, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the detailed response and guidance. I'm being extra careful because of a COI (declared above). Would appreciate your continued patience with this. Ngkabra (talk) 13:49, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Aruna Shanbaug case
I wish to add some more detail to this section to clarify a few things - 1. that withdrawal of life support in Aruna's case was rejected because the "next friend" (KEM Hospital staff) did not want it withdrawn, 2. However If KEM Hospital staff changed their mind, they could withdraw life support with the support of the High Court. and 3. The Court's appreciation of Pinki Virani, as part of the judgement.

Specifically, I wish to replace the last sentence & quote (starting with "The Supreme Court made it's decision on 7 March 2017...") with the following:



On 7th March 2011, the Supreme Court made its decision, in which it issued a set of broad guidelines legalizing passive euthanasia in India. These guidelines for passive euthanesia— i.e. the decision to withdraw treatment, nutrition, or water—establish that the decision to discontinue life support must be taken by parents, spouse, or other close relatives, or in the absence of them, by a "next friend". This decision requires approval from the concerned High Court.

In its judgement, the court declined to recognize Virani as the "next friend" of Aruna Shanbaug, and instead treated the KEM hospital staff as the "next friend."

We do not mean to decry or disparage what Ms. Pinky Virani has done. Rather, we wish  to   express   our   appreciation   of   the splendid social spirit she has shown. We have seen on the internet that she has been espousing many social causes, and we hold her in high esteem. All that we wish to say is that however much her interest in Aruna Shanbaug  may   be   it   cannot   match   the involvement of the KEM hospital staff who have been taking care of Aruna day and night for 38 years.

Since the KEM Hospital staff wished that Aruna Shanbaug be allowed to live, Virani's petition to withdraw life support was declined. However, the court further stipulated that the KEM hospital staff, with the approval of the Bombay High Court, had the option of withdrawing life support if they changed their mind:

"However, assuming that the KEM hospital staff at some future time changes its mind, in our opinion in such a situation the KEM hospital would have to apply to the Bombay High Court for approval  of  the  decision to  withdraw life support."

As a part of the judgement, the Supreme Court also expressed appreciation for Virani's work:

"We also wish to express our appreciation of Ms. Pinki Virani who filed this petition. Although we have dismissed the petition for the reasons given above, we regard her as a public spirited person who filed   the   petition   for   a   cause   she   bona   fide regarded as correct and ethical.   We hold her in high esteem."

Please let me know if anyone has any objections to any of this. Ngkabra (talk) 13:30, 1 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Ok, going ahead with these changes for now Ngkabra (talk) 10:20, 3 May 2017 (UTC)