Talk:Pizza delivery/Archive 2

Deliverymens' "nefarious activities"
''Pizza deliverymen have also been involved in more nefarious activities. In Amsterdam, a 20-year old man of Moroccan descent conducted terrorism-related surveillance of the city's red-light district from his delivery scooter.''

As a delivery person myself I find this implicating and rude. Not to mention irrelevant to describe the job; it's like saying "Some secretaries steal customers' credit card numbers" and putting that in the secretary article.

Hotbags and unions
heya, I just added a section on the hotbags, and tagged some stuff onto history about the pizza unions. If anyone has pics of the 3 types of bags, I'd appreciate them, otherwise, if i remember, I'll take some pics at my shop (we have all 3 types). This is the first non AfD, RfA, CSD, or rvv edit i've done, so, as always, any feedback anyone can provide is greatly appreciated! -- Vile  Rage  ( Reply  |   C  |  Spam Me!  *   ) 03:19, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Donatos uses a mag induction hotbag now. Can someone verify for Dominos? KC9CQJ 05:10, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Why does the article say that heated bags can keep pizza hot for "30–45 minutes"? If the bag is kept hot by an external energy source, shouldn't it be able to keep the pizza hot, but not necessarily edible, indefinitely? &mdash;QuicksilverT @ 16:47, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Technically possible if you stick pizzas into a bag that's on the heating rack in the store. But the bags are taken off the rack and put in the driver's car, where they do not stay hot indefinitely, so after a period of about 30-45 minutes the pizza will no longer be hot. Keppa 21:30, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * What about those powered by the car's cigarette lighter? 204.191.121.132 08:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There are externally powered bags, such as those that plug into cigarette lighters. I replaced the existing hotbags section since it had been tagged as unreferenced (no references at all) since June. I found one reference, but it didn't support all the info that was in this section, so the replacement has much less info. The previous info was more detailed and useful, but it needed a reliable source, and for such an industry-specific topic, that seems a bit scarce on the web. -Agyle 17:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Terminology
"Pizza delivery person" sounds a bit cumbersome. Maybe "Pizza driver"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tlogmer (talk • contribs)


 * Yea, that or 'Delivery Driver' ;] -- негідний  лють  ( Reply  08:35, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * That may be a cultural issue. In the U.S., pizza delivery person, while cumbersome, is a widely used term. The shift to gender neutral alternatives from terms like deliveryman or delivery guy seems more common in the U.S. than elsewhere. Delivery guy is probably used more colloquially, when it's referring to a male. Driver is probably even more commonly used, but that's specific to areas where deliveries are made by drivers. I presume that in Manhattan, for example, where deliveries are more common by other means, they wouldn't use "driver." -Agyle 18:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Time Guarantees
The following text does not belong under "time guarantees" ''The pizzas are generally transported in pizza boxes, square cardboard boxes that are large enough to hold a pizza but flat enough to be stacked, often prominently displaying the logo of the pizzeria. These boxes are carried in specially designed square bags designed to retain heat. ''

That said, we have a Pappa John's, Pizza Hut and Dominoe's Pizza here. They all tend to inflate their prep\delivery time considerably. Last time I ordered from PJs, they told me it would be about 40 minutes for delivery. I got my pizza in half that time. PrometheusX303 03:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


 * That's because there are many different factors involved in time quotes. You might have gotten a veteran driver that knows all the shortcuts, or you might have caught the store in a lull, something like that.  Delivery times are based upon the manager's gut feeling, not necessarily based upon something objective like order measurement.  KC9CQJ 17:04, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It depends on who you talk to. Some workers will read a computer generated time to you, some will say the same time every time, some will try to "feel" for it based on how busy it is and some will ask someone else. Also, you might order a pizza when the phones are ringing off the hook, and suddenly business slows to a crawl. There were less things for the in-store staff to do so your order was completed sooner. I like to add about 5-10 minutes to any estimate, because customers tend to call back the instant the quote is exceeded and exaggerate how long it's been (not realizing that the computer logged the time of their order.) Keppa 02:27, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I added an example of a pizza place that has a time guarantee and added i citation. lee378 —Preceding comment was added at 20:24, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

How drivers are paid
The article didn't say how much one should tip. Do you think this information should be included? There's no mention of why people do the job. You could add that it's not usually teenagers. You must be at least 18 years old. The average driver is 28 and works to support a family, rent, and pay tuition.

In the process of the delivery, you could mention the kitchen occupies most of the delivery time, yet most people falsely assume and blame the driver for that. The cooks were backed up and spent 50 minutes on the order. The driver spent 10 minutes. That's why it took a total of 60 minutes. At least it should be mentioned that a pizza had to be made and sent through the oven. It's not all the driver.

-- --Thepizzaguy 08:22, 29 January 2006 (UTC) webmaster@tipthepizzaguy.com


 * It's usually but not always true that you must be 18. "Five buck pizza" here in Utah hires 17-year-olds. Also, at Domino's it's not technically an age limit; you have to have had your driver's license for at least two years. Keppa 01:57, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Tipping
The article said "however, in most instances no tip is given." I've changed that to "some" instances, as I myself deliver pizza, and a vast majority of orders result in a tip. Is this peculiar to Domino's or the U.S.? Keppa 00:32, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Tipping in general is less common in Europe, where minimum wage is a lot higher. When I worked as a pizza driver, I got tipped basically every delivery. Tlogmer (Talk / Contributions) 02:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

The whole sections on payment and tipping are rubbish and need a complete rewrite, citing current sources. I would think having subsections on different countries and/or companies might be helpful. I work as a delivery driver currently, and off and on for the past 13 years, so I'd be more that happy to attempt a rewrite (using current and newer sources)--Moss Ryder (talk) 08:23, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Delivery charges, tipping
Added a subject about the delivery charge. I really don't want people to confuse it with the tip. If you want more news sources, look at tipthepizzaguy.com. In the tipping section, added a note about the suggested amount for the tip. We really shouldn't leave people clueless and guessing, or they might tip $1 all the time. I was going to add that tipping $1 was a misnomer, but that might be pushing things too far. --Thepizzaguy 09:27, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

The section as it is now seems very driver-centric and doesn't really read with an encyclopedic tone in my opinion. I'd clean it up a bit if I had time. I might go back later today and do it, but for now, I'm just going to tag it as NPOV.

--Alyssa3467 23:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Fact: drivers were given an allowance for fuel/maint. before delivery charges Fact: the store chooses to impose a delivery charge, not the drivers

Does anyone really think that the store imposed a delivery charge so that drivers would get $1.50($2.25, whatever)per run in addition to what the store was already paying them? Of course not, the store keeps the delivery charge.

This is not true, I worked for Pizza Hut a couple of years ago and the delivery charge is not kept by the store, but in fact it is more of a way for the store to pay the drivers more without paying tax on it.

(A)How much did your pizza hut pay its drivers per run before the delivery charge? (B)How much is their delivery charge now? (C)How much do they pay per run now? B + A - C = How much of the delivery charge your store is keeping. (here's mine) 2.00 + .75 - 1.25 = My store keeps 1.50 of the 2.00 delivery charge.

Result:
 * 1) 1 I get .50 cents per run more to buy 1/7th a gallon of gas. At $3.50 per gallon. (spent)
 * 2) 2 My boss adds $1.50 per run to his gross recipts.
 * 3) 3 Everyone tips worse because they assume I'm already getting a 2.00 delivery charge.

Stop propagating this myth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.162.216.85 (talk • contribs) 23:41, 18 January 2007

Here is the reference to the delivery charge being the sole property of the employer. Read carefully!

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs15.htm

63.215.27.175 04:49, 19 January 2007 (UTC)LoneStar

The part about the delivery charge used for food and labor costs should explictly mention Domino's and Papa John's. We have sources from both companies. I added a news source for Domino's. The history of the delivery charge needed more detail and I added that, mostly from the USA Today article. The 1999 article is partly available online but to read the rest requires a subscription. I hope someone will find the complete article -- I tried. The available portion establishes enough for our purposes, I think. --Thepizzaguy 06:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I rearranged the structure to have the history of the delivery charge go first. Then, I did some minor editing to the rest to allow the whole section to flow better. I think it should be noted that mileage rates were not invented by the delivery charge, so they must be viewed separately. --Thepizzaguy 13:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know much about wikipedia usage, but I have been a dominos delivery driver in 2 different cities. In one, the delivery charge was $2.00 and the mileage is $1 per delivery, in the other mileage is $1.20 per delivery. Not a big deal, but the numbers in the article are incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.180.237.141 (talk) 21:57, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

American centric
This article is very American centric. It focuses entirely on pizza delivery in the United States. I think some effort should be made to include pizza delivery in European countries as well. RaF 16 June 2006

I have added some aspects about pizza delivery in European countries. Something went wrong saving the edit. The edits made under the IP address 84.84.155.128 are mine as well.

Greetings, RaF 17 June 2006


 * Still very Americo-centric, though. In particular, I'd be interested to know when pizza delivery first kicked off in the UK. There's a Douglas Adams novel written, and set, in the late-80s UK, where one of the main characters (American) "enjoys getting angry when she can't get pizza delivered in London." WikiReaderer 05:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

the very concept of pizza is american centric —Preceding unsigned comment added by A plague of rainbows (talk • contribs) 15:29, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Before anyone chimes in to say that pizza is Italian, please take note. While pizza was originally from Italy, an authentic Italian pizza bears little resemblance to what you get from, say, Domino's or Pizza Hut.  Frotz (talk) 19:50, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Most Efficient Way
I proprose de removal of this phrase in the first line of the article. "It is done in the most efficient manner possible. ". Since I think every job is considered to be done in the most efficient way. --200.55.113.244 19:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You're right. I removed the phrase. Keppa 20:46, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree; everybody with a job is paid for the time they serve, not necessarily for how efficiently they do it. As a delivery driver myself, my personal income goes up the more efficient I am for several reasons, both because I can physically do more deliveries in the same amount of time and because my customers see that they've gotten their delivery within a certain duration, and order from us again because of my service. User:LafinJack

Japan
This edit may have changed the meaning of one of the affected passages....

"Tipping is nearly unheard of in Japanese pizza delivery, mainly because tipping is not a part of the culture. Pizza deliveries are also only very rarely done in operator owned vehicles."

becomes

"Tipping is nearly unheard of in Japanese pizza delivery, mainly because tipping is not a part of the culture. Pizza deliveries in Japan are usually done in company-owned vehicles."

Both versions are problematic.

I'm not sure if the original was intended to suggest that deliveries were very rarely done, and then usually in operator-owned vehicles, or that pizza deliveries in Japan are common, but rarely done in operator-owned vehicles, which is how I interpreted the sentence. I'm also not sure which is true. If Pizza deliveries in Japan are, in fact, usually done in company-owned vehicles, then the fact is, in any case, rather unremarkable. (And anyway, deliveries aren't "done", they're made. There.) I've removed the sentence, for now. TheMadBaron 12:41, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Pizza box
The term "pizza box" is used in the board design and means a box 1U 19"x1.75" I think that it is not correct to redirect Pizza_box to this article

POV re: reckless habits
Removed the following:

Because pizza deliverymen's income usually depends critically, either explicitly or implicitly, on the number of deliveries they perform, they have a strong incentive to complete deliveries as quickly as possible, potentially jeopardizing their own safety or that of others. This is particularly true in large congested cities where they usually drive motorscooters or light motorbikes, which provide little protection for a rider. In Paris, for example, pizza deliverymen are notorious for their reckless driving habits and are often involved in traffic accidents.

It's uncited, and seems highly POV to me. ReddShadoe 18:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Article overhaul
I either removed or labeled (with Fact and Unreferenced templates) most of the unsourced statements in this article. What remains is anemic and doesn't flow well, compared to the full unsourced article, but it is clearer which information is reliably sourced and which isn't. Hopefully the remaining unsourced information will be sourced or removed, and newly added information will be more reliably sourced. I also filled in a lot of missing citation info for unadorned URLs (e.g. article titles, dates, authors, and publishers), found sources for some of the previously unsourced info, and reworked existing material to be supportable by the exiting citations. -Agyle 23:29, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Robbery and murder
Someone removed the following sentence:

"Pizza delivery presents hazards such as robbery and murder. [ Chan, Sewell. (1996-07-10.) 'Pizza Redlining: Green Says 'Go,' Red Says Tough Neighborhood.' The Wall Street Journal Online. Retrieved on 2007-09-18. ]"

Their edit comment said "The cited article is about how some pizza deliverers _fear_ robbery or murder." The cited article includes statements about actual job hazards, including "Nationwide, several pizza deliverers have been murdered on the job in the past few years," and "There is no question that pizza deliverers are frequently assaulted, robbed and sometimes killed on the job." The Washington Post is a reputable source, and other sources say pizza delivery as an unusually robbery- and murder-prone occupation in the U.S. If there is a serious dispute about this, I'd like to see a reliable source that contradicts it. -Agyle 19:58, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with you though I can't attest to your claims. The quote as it stands is supported by the quotations you've provided here, but the the Wall Street Journal is a pay-per-view site.  Registration costs money.  Do you have a subscription to the WSJ?  Thanks.  ~a (user • talk • contribs) 18:22, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I can get to it by searching for it in news.google.com, then clicking on the link. Here is a google search that brings up the article. I'm not sure what criteria wsj.com uses; accessibility may depend on locality, browser cookie settings, javascript settings, or other factors. -Agyle 19:18, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Intro
I'm sorry, but does anyone find the second sentence of the intro to be absolutely ridiculous? The first sentence is all well and good, but the second sentence (Pizza delivery presents hazards such as robbery and murder) is absolutely ludicrous. While I agree that they are subjected to those hazards, it is not the first thing I think of when I think pizza deliveryman. Let's look at a job that is the most hazardous job in America, the lumberjack. Does it mention danger or hazards in the opening blurb at all? No! Because it's not significantly relevant to the main scope of the article. Maybe if there were more than two sentences in the opening blurb it wouldn't be as ridiculous. But to have that as one of the only two sentences in the opening of the article is absolutely insane. KDR 16:08, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with you. Though I don't think it's as ridiculous/ludicrous/insane as you do.  The "Hazards" section is sufficient, and that's as strongly as I would have put it.  I propose we delete the sentence.  However, then the opening paragraph seems a little too short.  Thoughts?  ~a (user • talk • contribs) 17:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * How about..."Pizza is good. (citation needed)"? Sounds like Wikipedia at its finest.  KDR (talk) 16:52, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree also. Just walking down the street presents hazards such as robbery and murder. Phoenix1985 (talk) 16:42, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * In fact, I removed it. If people feel excessively strongly that it's needed, they can put it back :P Phoenix1985 (talk) 16:55, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

These hazards are well-documented by the FBI. The American Union of Pizza Delivery Drivers has a lot of material on this. The previous attempt at unionization started primarily because of violence against drivers. Frotz (talk) 00:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Citations needed and weasel words needing attention
I have fixed the weasel wording or language that was in the "The process" section and have removed the tag stating this article uses weasel words. Just to clarify, using the phrase 'some pizzerias' to clarify that not all pizzerias have a certain trait is not using weasel words. I added a lot of citations also and for the paragraph about delivering to unsafe neighborhoods, I added an example and citation. I also gave the paragraph its own heading and moved it to the bottom. lee378 —Preceding comment was added at 20:35, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Citations in History
I can not find where the submitter of the information from the section "History" got their information. Citations are needed for the information in this section and because it is the second section of the article, i think it brings down the ethos of the whole article when it is one of the first things that readers see. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lee378 (talk • contribs) 20:51, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
If it is necessary demonstrate the impact this has had on society and culture, then do so without creating this kind of section. A bunch of trivial pieces of information about every time pizza delivery is mentioned in a book, movie, game, etc don't actually do that. Instead find some citations which talk about its impact on culture and write a prose section about it. Not a giant unending list.--Crossmr (talk) 03:32, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Proper format for citation?
I added some information about Domino's new "thirty minutes" campaign, but I don't know how to properly cite a TV commercial. Reyemile (talk) 21:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

"Pizza Boxes" section, paragraphs 2 and 3
Upon reading these paragraphs, I am left rather confused by the wording and context. The third paragraph of the section, in particular, appears to be referring to a particular pizza company rather than pizza delivery in general. One of the paragraphs states that "In Australia [...] a pizza box was round with a lip on the sides." As an Australian, I can state that this was certainly not true for all Australian pizza boxes within the time period stated, in fact I personally have never encountered a round pizza box. The style, lack of context, and lack of citations or links in the two paragraphs seems to suggest that they were pasted from some external site. I'm deleting these paragraphs for now, as they do not appear to add to the article in any meaningful way. See changes in history: --TerrorBite (talk) 13:53, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

This article is a pile of poop
What the heck is the sentence about "Drivers make $20 an hour... which is not enough" supposed to mean??? How is $20/hr for delivering pizzas not sufficient? 68.38.20.164 (talk) 21:38, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Proposal for adding other food service delivery
I believe that the other food services, most prominently Chinese food (in America), should also have their own pages, or somehow incorporated into this page. Feedback is desired as to whether they should be separate articles, or how to incorporate them into this article. Absentia (talk) 18:10, 3 November 2008 (UTC)