Talk:Place of articulation

suggestions
hi. i think that this article could be organized better. although it is following the "places" of articulation as traditionally thought of, it could be laid out in a more logical way more in accord with actual articulation. so, specifically, i suggest the following:


 * notion of passive & active articulators
 * detailed discussion of the "places" used on tongue (an active articulator), lips, top of oral cavity
 * mention general regions (i.e. oral cavity, nasal cavity, etc.)
 * include diagrams showing the artic. places

something like this, anyway. peace – ishwar  (speak)  04:52, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)

Alveolus
The following passage appears in the text:

Alveolar: between the front of the tongue and the ridge behind the gums (the alveolus)

The alveolus wikilink lead to a disambiguation page, on which appears Dental alveolus; however, the usage here appears to be distinct from that described in "dental alveolus". Should an additional term be added to the Alveolus disambiguation page as a third anatomical feature? Courtland 01:19, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Should be alveolar ridge. &mdash; kwami 02:20, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Suggested improvements

 * The phrase "articulatory gesture" does not occur here. It should, because SOWL uses it as a synonym for "place of articulation", and it describes the concept better.


 * The lead section is too long. All but the first paragraph should be moved to the body of the article.


 * The lead section needs a disclaimer along these lines: "The terminology in this article has been developed to precisely describe consonants in all of the world's spoken languages. Language textbooks often use these terms less precisely, or with slightly different meanings. No known language distinguishes all of the places of articulation described here; less precision is needed to distinguish the sounds of a particular language (especially if you have a teacher to demonstrate the sounds for you or it is your native language)."


 * The first section of the article should be a bulleted list of the 5 classes of active articulators (with 3 subitems for coronal). With a brief description of each, such as "·Coronal consonants ·Laminal consonants are made by moving the blade of the tongue to the upper lip, the upper teeth, or the roof of the mouth. The blade is the first few millimeters of the upper surface of the tongue." The list is followed by a note on the continuum of possible active articulators, and a note on coarticulation and on the impossibility of coarticulation within each of the 5 classes.


 * The next section should be a list of the passive articulators, similarly wikilinked and annotated.


 * Then we can have the table of places of articulation.


 * The list of places where obstruction can occur is redundant. So is the section on nasals and laterals.

I am not bold enough to make these changes myself, for I have never studied linguistics formally and someone would have to come by and fix my work. — Solo Owl (talk) 19:00, 16 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Some good suggestions. The article has just been rewritten to make some of them superfluous, but several are still relevant. I think I've addressed your points. — kwami (talk) 14:50, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

new picture
I drew a new diagramm on this topic, you might want to consider using it here: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tavin (talk • contribs) 23:41, 15 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Several places of articulation are missing from it. --JorisvS (talk) 17:48, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Acute and grave
I have just added a note to the Talk section of Grave and acute following a comment by someone else that the grave/acute pair of features seems irrelevant to phonetic classification. I suggest that if there is a wish to include grave and acute in the present WP article then there really ought to be some justification given for including these old terms in what purports to be a present-day articulatory account of consonant classification. RoachPeter (talk) 16:57, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Examples
Not enough examples. For example, the Castillian lateral consonant. Give us a word, an example. Not all of us are linguistic majors

Are there inappropriate redirects to this article?
Voice production and Voice organ both redirect to this present article Place of articulation. From what it says in the lead, this present article seems to be only about the production of consonants, and this is only part of the what the human voice produces. Would Human voice (or perhaps some other article) be a better place to redirect Voice production and Voice organ to? FrankSier (talk) 15:50, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Suggestion: this article is modified to agree with Manner of articulation
The lead of this article at present seems to say that it only relates to the production of consonants (and not vowels). Speech_production uses this term in relation to speech as a whole; and Manner of articulation states that the term is mainly used in relation to consonants but also relates to vowels. I suggest that Place of articulation is modified to be consistent with what is said in Manner of articulation. (Note also: what happens in relation to this issue may affect what is decided for the previous section I started "Are there inappropriate redirects to this article?"; I wrote that before I noticed the present issue.) FrankSier (talk) 16:14, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Mention of South Asian Consonant Order
Sanskrit, and many other derived (or related) consonant lists are traditionally ordered in groups that are back to front, and then from acute to grave. 20040302 (talk) 09:32, 19 October 2022 (UTC)