Talk:Platypus/Archive 1

[Untitled sections]
Shouldn't we have just the smaller picture here with a link to the larger one?

Yes, but it takes more than 10 seconds to do it. I was in the middle of doing that when I got an "edit conflict". Battle of the dueling keyboards! :-) --Alan Millar


 * Sorry about that, that was probably me. But it was vitally important that I link 1800s and 1939 right then and there! :) -BD


 * Sorry. I just figured it out looking at it, and so had to try it to see if I was right.  :-)  --KQ

--- Hmmm. Maybe I should go out to the Healsville Sanctuary and try to get a better photo. That drawing is very misleading. In fact, most 19th and early-20th centuary drawings of Australian wildlife are pretty inaccurate (and make it look uglier than it is).

The picture is better than none, perhaps. I like the idea of having the text first and then the picture. --LMS


 * Without dissing the considerable efforts of the person to track down a copyright-free illustration of a platypus, it really is *very* misleading. By all means keep it, but a better picture would be kinda nice. --Robert Merkel

I think the platypus has a poisonous claw - is that true? There's nothing in the article about it. 207.189.98.44 20:12, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

In the article, it says that the platypus is listed as vulnerable, but on the right bar, it says that the platypus is secure. Are these referring to different things, or is one not correct? Bamos 17:13, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

"The platypus conservation status, as listed on the endangered species list by the Australia and New Zealand Environmental Conservation Council, is 'secure but faces future threat'. Most information sources list the platypus as 'common but vulnerable'." from earlham.edu. So it is "Secure and facing future threat" and "common but vulnerable"... I guess this means that it is common now but the whole species is vulnerable to certain changes. I'll try to reword main article accordingly. --/Mat 19:05, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The statement on the platypus being the only mammal to have electroreception is false. All monotremes (the other being the Echnida) have electroreception. However, it is much more pronounced in the platypus.

(Reference: Electroreception in monotremes J Exp Biol, 202 (10), 1447-1454 May 1999)

Why on the Platypus page does it mention that they look like beavers? I noticed on the beaver page it doesn't say they look like playtpusses. It seems a blantant North Hemisphere bias to me. Saying they look like beavers adds nothing to article, but I feel uncomfortable removing information from an article myself (being a newbie)

True or false: Approximately half of all American dictionaries accept "Platypi". 66.32.148.182 01:15, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

All I know is, Platypi is the logical Latin plural. American dictionaries usually prefer the logical English plural, like bureaus rather than the proper plural bureaux.


 * But platypus is from Greek, not Latin! The Greek plural would be platypodes. Gdr 14:29, 2004 Jul 26 (UTC)


 * Platypodes is not a valid plural construction in English. Platypi is plain wrong, for the reasons given above. Scientists cannot seem to agree on whether to use platypuses (Tom Grant et al.) or platypus (Melody Serena et al.). Personally, I prefer the former, simply because it is less ambiguous.

This is from an editor who made some changes. I have altered some passages slightly to make them flow more smoothly. Also, I've inserted links (tribosphenic molar). A reorganisation of the sections (adding anatomy and behaviour headings). The formatting has been made universal: all family, species, genus, etc. names are made in italics, with no bold. Hopefully, this will work to the benefit of the article.--66.220.117.134 06:39, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

I haven't the time to make well-written and well-referenced changes to the page now, but still feel that I need to make a couple of comments... The statement that the metabolic rate of the platypus is low is plain wrong; the animal is known to eat copious amounts of food, around 20 percent of its body weight per day. (Reference: The Platypus - A Unique Mammal by Tom Grant, UNSW Press, 1995). The book by Tom Grant is undoubtedly one of the most trusted souces of reliable information about the platypus, and it is a shame it is not mentioned in the reference section.

Furthermore, the platypus is not strictly nocturnal, but is commonly biurnal (active during mornings and evenings), or even active during daytime. This varies greatly among populations and individual animals.

The section which mentions water pollution as a threat to the platypus could be expanded considerably. Interaction with foxes and humans is probably the most important local threat to the species. The Australian Platypus Conservancy is a good source of information on these topics.

The genetics of this remarkable species is a fascinating topic, and should be discussed more in depth. For example, Tasmanian platypuses have been found to differ genetically from mainland platypuses by as much as 5 percent (humans and chimpanzees also differ by about 5 percent). This difference may partly explain the susceptibility of Tasmanian platypuses - but not mainland ones - to the fungal infection ulcerative mycosis, caused by Mucor amphibiorum, which is a common cause of platypus mortality in Tasmania.

Regarding pictures, there should definitly be some accurate photographs on the platypus page. The 19th century drawing is not accurate or sufficient. I might have some pictures somewhere that I took myself a few years ago; e-mail me if you feel like putting them up on the web. -- Peter Modin (peter_modin AT hotmail.com)


 * Your are correct about the platypus metabolism. It is high rather than low and so the article needs correction. I have just added info about how much time it spends foraging and how much of its own weight it needs to eat each day. - Shiftchange 01:46, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

New information
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200410/s1226827.htm This article references new information about platypus sex. Apparantly they have 5 chromosomes to determine it. On another note, this is the first I've contributed anything to wikipedia, so I didn't make the direct changes myself.

My, what a wonderful article!!! I used the info from the platypus to do a bio report and got an A! Wikipedia really does work! ---Christina — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chedcat (talk • contribs) 15:16, 14 November 2004 (UTC)

Lack of references
Hi this article no longer meets the criteria for a featured article because it does not cite its sources. Please help fix this so that all featured articles can meet the same standards. Best would be the most trusted resources in the field being added, some print resources especially, but also online references are better than none. Those sources would likely help with good material to further improve the article anyway. - Taxman 23:00, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
 * I have added three printed sources and three websites. Hope it helps. One of the websites,  would be very useful for expanding the article.  Also, according to the disclaimer and copyright information, Wikipedia may be able to use some of the images on this site, as the only good image we have is probably a copyright infringement ('Apart from any use permitted by the [Australian Copyright Act 1968], the State of Tasmania grants users of this site a licence (within the meaning of the Act) to download, print and otherwise reproduce the information for non-commercial purposes only.').   &bull;  &rarr;  I&ntilde;g&oacute;lemo  &larr;&bull;  03:10, 2004 Nov 11 (UTC)

On the plural once again
During the discussion above, we have come to several conclusions regarding the plural of platypus:
 * The logical Latin plural is platypi
 * Since platypus isn't Latin, platypi is not a real world
 * The Greek plural of platypus is &pi;&lambda;&alpha;&tau;&upsilon;&pi;&omega;&delta;&epsilon;&sigma; (platypodes)
 * Platypodes is an invalid plural in English, since there is no precedent for Greek plurals
 * Scientists are divided between
 * platypuses
 * and platypus
 * At least two Wikipedia users (me and the anon who posted the response) prefer the former, since it is less ambiguous.

In my opinion, this issue of plural needs to be addressed somewhere in the article. If no one objects, I'm going to add it somewhere in the front, like at the end of the intro section. Also, if the proper Greek spelling of platypodes could be confirmed, that would be great. &rarr;I&ntilde;g&#333;lemo&larr;  talk  donate  23:06, 2005 Feb 9 (UTC)


 * My dictionaries give the following for the plural:


 * platypuses (Collins, The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language)
 * platypuses and (surprisingly) platypi (Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, Encarta World Dictionary)
 * no mention of a plural (The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary; Longman Modern English Dictionary, Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary) JoJan 06:55, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, your conclusions are inaccurate in two ways. First, platypus is a Latin borrowing from Greek, although apparently of the third declension, so platypi remains incorrect. Second, there is a limited precedent for plurals in -odes to be found in antipodes, as well as various other Greek plurals such as criteria for criterion.


 * The Name section talks about the correct plural. By whose authority is one plural correct over another? An encyclopedia should not be prescriptive in word spellings, definitions or plurals, but simply describe how words are used by speakers. Since Websters, Encarta etc give platypi as a plural, I think it would be better to say who uses which plural and how common they are. Ashmoo 03:50, 4 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The Latin word for foot is pes, pedis so the plural would but pedes. Since platypus is a Latinized Greek word, the plural should indeed be platypi if we take a Latin plural or platypodes if we use a Greek plural. The debate here is the same as with the plural of octopus, whose plural is acceptable as either octopi or octopuses (or octopus). However octopuses is the most common form, hence the plural of Platypus should be Platypuses. - Hannaphrael 27.12.05


 * Can you cite an example of the word platypi ever being used in Latin? I would think platypus would be a third-declension noun with stem playtpod-, so platypus, platypodis... the nominative plural would be platypodes, just like Greek. —Keenan Pepper 16:24, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Either way, we are talking about the English word platypus, not a Latin word, so the Latin rules are irrelevant. Etymology is not destiny as they say. Sure, the word was formed by looking at Latin words, but the word is now an English word not a Latin word. But again, the encyc. is not here to tell people how they should spell words, but just report how words are spelt in the real world. Ashmoo 23:14, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Sure, I'll drink to that. So many words are etymological accidents anyway... —Keenan Pepper 01:56, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * On the other hand, if you're going to say something is correct Latin in the article, you'd better have a source for it. I don't think platypus is a neuter noun, I think it's masculine like octopus, so the plural should be platypodes, not platypoda. I can't find a source for platypodes though, so I'm waiting to see if someone has a source for platypoda. Don't get me wrong, it's fine to have a bogus word like platypi in the article if people use it in English, but not to say something's correct Latin if it isn't. —Keenan Pepper 02:16, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Agreed. We can't say what declension it is, so we shouldn't reference declension rules.  I'm taking that out. Julescubtree 22:44, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Platypus is not a Latin word, but Latinized, and having been given a Latin masculine ending it is 2nd declension so platypi is the correct Latin. Having seen the edited article; platypoda is not a possible plural anyway since podes is the plural of pous so I am unsure why that is in there having not seen that even come up previously in the discussion, the Greek plural would be platypodes but it isn't a Greek word! However I think that the issue does look better in the article now. - Hannaphrael 02.01.06


 * Again, I'll believe it when you find a reputable Latin author who uses it as a 2nd declension noun. Many 3rd declension nouns also end in -us (corpus, genus, tempus...) so there's no reason to assume it's 2nd declension. —Keenan Pepper 01:08, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


 * That's what I'm trying to say, no Latin author will have EVER used the word because it wasn't a Latin word (having been invented in 1799 ), it is similar to hippopotamus which is also Latinized Greek, whose plurals are accepted as hippopotamuses or hippopotami. If it were to be 3rd declension it would more logically be platypes-pedis. Could we not also argue that it is 4th declension like manus?
 * I think an edit to the plural issue would be satisfactory like this:


 * 'There is no universally accepted plural for platypus, with platypuses or simply platypus generally being used; platypi is also used colloquially.'


 * This would remove the two things I currently dislike, the platypoda and the statment that scientists generally use. Comments? - Hannaphrael 02.01.06

List of venomous mammals
There is sense in having a list of venomous mammals if there is only ONE of them??? It seems quite useless to me. --Pinzo 00:06, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Actually, there are at least four types of venomous mammals, including the male platypus, water shrew, short-tailed shrew, and the solenodon. A small, extinct mammal called Bisonalveus browni is also thought to have had a poisonous bite.

 

- mavra_chang

Trevor Dunn
This bit of information seems to be irrelevant to an encyclopedic article on Platypuses and rather seems to be fancruft for a band. I'm deleting it. 68.212.44.159 21:54, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I have reverted the page again. This little snippet of trivia is about Trevor Dunn, and not about the platypus. I have edited the Trevor Dunn page to put this information there. Please don't add this trivia back here without consideration. It just doesn't belong here. Zeimusu | Talk page 14:23, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

I'll add my vote to its irrevelancy. People don't go to a encyc. article on the platypus to find out which musicians are fascinated by them. If he had put out an album 'The Natural History of the Platypus' where all the songs were about Platypuses, maybe. But just being interested in them & moderately famous isn't enough. Ashmoo 02:18, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Physiology and anatomy conclusion
It can also fly? What, like on an airplane?

-i have heard that the platypus makes a sound similar to a dog barking, albeit a small dog. can anyopne confirm or deny? if anyone has a recording, that would be a great addition to an already great entry.

--I agree with the above: an audio file of a platypus would be great. I've always wondered what they actually do sound like. When I was younger, I asked my stepfather. He jokingly replied, "platypus, platypus, platypus."

Range
Doesn't this statement from the article: "and is no longer found in the main part of the Murray-Darling Basin, probably because of the declining water quality brought about by extensive land clearing and irrigation schemes."

Contradict this statement further down in the article: "Although not found in the west-flowing rivers of northern Queensland, it inhabits the upper reaches of rivers flowing to the west and north of the dividing ranges in the south of the state and in New South Wales and Victoria."

From personal experience only (no hard research here) I feel the latter statement is more correct as I have personally witnessed platypus in the Murrumbidgee River. Any thoughts?--Zig c 01:58, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Olympic Mascot
i saw that every sydney olympic mascot says the wrong name relation.

My sister have an official toy (by macdonalds happy meal) from the mascots and it says there (and in other places) that the name of the platypus is Syd, not Olly as it said before.

http://www.canoe.ca/2000GamesGallerySep12/pre_sep12g.html

puggle
Maybe I didn't read it properly but I couldn't find any reference in the text to the name of a young platypus - namely "puggle". The WP page for puggle lists this as the name of echidna and platypus young. It is mentioned on echidna but not here (as far as I can see). Usually I would have added it myself but given that it is a feature article I thought that it is more likely that I'm just missing it. Could someone else check this please? Witty lama 02:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
 * And you were right to not add it: A baby platypus is not called a puggle, which seems to be a common misconception. There is no official name for a baby platypus, but a common suggested name is "platypup". - UtherSRG (talk) 02:30, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe I'm just too much of a descriptivist when it comes to language, but if their is no 'official' name for a young platypus but it is commonly called a 'puggle', then that makes 'puggle' the name for a young platypus. The English language has no 'official' body, so actual usage is the final decider. As worst you could say 'although puggle is commonly used to refer to a young platypus, biologists do not use the term'. Ashmoo 03:34, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Current range of platypus includes South Australia
In Conservation Status, perhaps there could be mention that while they were eradicated from South Australia, an introduced population does indeed live (and thrive) in South Australia at western kangaroo island. References are also made to a reintroduction in the Adelaide Hills.

Warrawong Sanctuary in S. Aust. succesfully breeds platypus ref: http://www.esl.com.au/plat.htm

user Otodus 00:17 8 April 2006

Platypus vs bird beak
The text that says the platypus snout is not like the bird's beak is misleading. While they are indeed quite different, the platypus snout does open up. See this pic: [] Ashmoo 03:30, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Evolution
I chopped these sentences out of the Mammalian evolution section as they seemed ambiguous and I didn't know how to resolve them.

''In summary, the Platypus is one of the closest relatives of ancestral mammals, but not itself a link in the chain of mammalian evolution. ''

How is 'closest relative' measured? And what does 'link in the chain of m.e.' mean?

''Fossil evidence has shown that the Platypus ancestors were alive during the Cretaceous period, but it is not known exactly how the platypus has come to the creature it is today. ''

The ancestors of every living creature alive today existed during the Cretaceous. Is the sentence trying to say that there were animals alive during the Cretaceous that shared features with the Platypus that are not shared by any other mammal? Or something else? Ashmoo 03:45, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Predators

 * I was just wondering, does the Platypus have any Natural Predators?
 * There seems to be nothing motioned about it in the article, so does that mean it has no predators?, it mentioned that the females seal up their burrows to keep the young safe, but safe from what?
 * If it has no natural predators than that in itself should be mentioned.
 * --Hibernian 16:08, 24 May 2006 (UTC)