Talk:PlayStation 3/Archive 13

System Failure?
Has anyone figured out about the Playstation 3's system failures? There seems to be problems when turning on the system, as it shows a blinking red light, and makes 3 beeps. 72.83.118.187 00:43, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * HELL YES! Mine got deleted! Renegadeviking 13:13 11/24/06

XMB
Shouldn't the text "XMB Cross Bar" under the screenshot of the XMB interface be changed to "XMB Cross Media Bar" as XMB means Cross Media Bar? --213.66.62.73 21:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Correct
Nice catch. I edited it to say Cross Media Bar now. TeamOverload 18:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

criticism
previous discussion is archived .

Should this be included in the criticism section? --86.141.107.165 10:07, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * No, Sony is exercising their right to limit grey market imports. "Lik sang" got angry, and posted some humorous comments about how the court ruling in Sony's favor was the end of the world as we know it, and the empire had won. It's actually sort of funny; I think it might still be on their site. They also had a comment system where they would allow any of their fans to make anti-Sony comments, but censored any moderated or comments that weren't hyped or anti-Sony. Their shutdown was also mysterious because they announced they were driven into bankruptcy before they had actually paid any fines. My guess is they don't have any investors or their callous reactions would be much more limited. --gatoatigrado 08:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It should be noted that not only have Lik-sang not paid any of the damages that were awarded to Sony, they did not even show up in court to represent themselves. They had zero legal fees, which makes their bankruptcy claims even more suspicious. My personal theory is that Lik-sang is hoping to stir up enough anti-Sony sentiment to entice Sony to back down and drop the issue, allowing Lik-sang to continue to operate. 129.128.233.48 08:05, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It should also be noted that the wii will be better than the ps3. It has equal capabilities: The news and weather channels, internet browsing, playing with people all around the world, putting music and videos on to memory cards and sticks, watching films, but has more. For instance, the new, innovative wireless style playing is a landmark in greg cannon gaming, making all games on the wii more interactive, engrossing, and above all, funner than those on the ps3. Also, the virtual console. This is an extra channel on the wii, where gamers can download old classics from Nintendo consoles N64 or before for a small fee, (around £5 for NES/SNES games, and around £10 for N64 games); also, these games will be digitally remastered, and for bigger titles, given extra controls that involve the wireless sensors on the wii remote. The issue of graphics is a big factor. Many will cite the graphics of the ps3 as an advantage over the wii. This may be, but these days, graphics in video games have become so good that it is impossible to distinguish between sony and nintendo graphics standards, the graphics, in general, are so good, that it does not make a difference to the gameplay. This is just what we expect from next generation consoles. Finally, a factor which still manages to turn away potential next genration console buyers from the wii: money. Above, I have displayed how the wii offers more than ps3, but for around half the money. Sony have put the price on the ps3: £350. The Wii on the other hand, is a much more modest sum of money: £180. So, the wii is better value above all. I beg of you, don't waste your money: buy a wii, not a ps3


 * Hmm, you come here to promote the wii yet all of your points are far from valid. PS3 may offer it's old titles for download it WILL play its old titles, PS3 will have an internet browser that will be free, PS3 can read compact flash devices like SD cards on the 60 gb model and also had a ps1/ps2 memory card reader available to transfer saves to the virtual memory cards on the PS3. PS3 has wireless controllers with motion detection as its standard. In most cases, the PS3 actually offers more, or if you count all of the stuff that the 360 has, Xbox can offer more than the both of them, for now atleast. If the graphics are so good as it is, then why would microsoft and sony put better hardware in their machines ? There must be a difference because two massive companies would not allow their consoles to be sold so cheaply with no profit on the hardware itself. How can you say that the Wii is funner ? How long have you owned one ? Atleast wait for the damn thing to be released before posting opinionated, biased, unfactual comments.--64.231.254.95 00:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with the previous comment on the advantages of the ps3: the one previous to that simply making ludicrous, untrue comments, but you say that the internet browser is free, and that the ps7 controller has motion sensors as standard like they are advantages or equals to the wii. In fact, the wii also has a free internet browser, and, although the ps3 controller may have motion sensors "as standard", these have been removed as Nintendo sued them for stealing an idea that was already patented.


 * RE Lik-sang bankruptcy. While that amount of money might not seem like very much, an importer moving goods from one high cost market to another (Japan/HK to the UK) usually makes less than the 10% profit that a retailer can expect to make on a poor day. Lik-Sang would probably have to ship several million dollars in sales to make enough money to pay Sony. And another million more in order to have enough profit to be viable. By my estimates, Lik-sang would need to be able to over three million dollars Net sales in order to pay the fine and stay viable.


 * perfectblue 12:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget that Wii has no Blu-Ray support.

US$?
previous discussion is archived .

I am "removing" vat taxes using the linear scalar User:Dpmarshall did for the Nintendo Wii. If this is inaccurate, please change it and tell me why here. Thanks. --gatoatigrado 08:11, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * never mind. the rounding is a bit too much; repeating it will probably cause more error. useful pages. . . unfortunately wikipedia does not have a reference page. --gatoatigrado 08:25, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * apparent vat's from what I can find. Mexico 0.15, Eurozone 0.15, United Kingdom 0.17, Switzerland 0.076, Norway 0.24, Denmark 0.25, Sweden 0.25, Finland 0.22, Australia 0.1, New Zealand 0.125. The results vary a small amount from the Wii page, but I suspect they calculated the US equivalent from the exact currency conversion, then rounded both numbers. please correct any inaccuracies. --gatoatigrado 08:47, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * UK: 0.175, actually.

I don't know VAT that well, someone tell me if this is a good assumption. It gives about the same value as price / vat though (I think only one value changed when rounding to the nearest $10).

"vat" here is actually "1 + vat".
 * retail price = retailer purchase price * vat + retailer profit
 * consumer price (not shown) = retailer purchase price * vat + retailer profit * vat
 * adjusted retail price (goal) = retailer purchase price + retailer profit
 * = (retail price - retailer profit) / vat + retailer profit

the formula I am using in a spreadsheet is =(B2-10)/(1+$E2)+10. I think the retail profit will be around $10, based on ars technica's revealing of Wii and Xbox 360 prices, and their logical assumption with its expensive hardware, the PlayStation 3 will be a "pull" marketing strategy. for rounding =ROUND(G2/10, 0) * 10. $10 is an easier increment to read. --gatoatigrado 09:23, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * 'By Americans for Americans'? 'Typical knee-jerk foriegner reactions'?  I think that is a slightly racist view to take.  And by the way, did you notice the resemblance between 'England' and 'English'?  LighthouseJ, I think you want to careful with your opinions before my British knee-jerk reactions get triggered.
 * Hear hear. What a 'jerk' LighthouseJ was. Hippo X 21:21, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

As for the conversions being the USD, I think it makes sense as many of the world's largest businesses are based in the currency. OnionHead 19:48, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

PS3 Linux Nintendo Emulation
Here is someone running a nintendo emulator on a PS3 running linux. It looks pretty sweet! 

PS3 image
previous discussion is archived .

Although I sincerely despise Mr Voluntarist's ad hominem attacks, I think the point about the detail in the other image is good. I cropped the image, and then enhanced it a bit. I uploaded it to my website. Feel free to upload it to Wikipedia if you think either one is better. I do like the colors and extreme black in the current image. . . --gatoatigrado 02:53, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * um, anyone? --gatoatigrado 20:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Those images are not as good - makes it look like chrome not black - too much reflection. Keep current? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.100.250.178 (talk • contribs) 14:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps asking sony themselves and linking to wikipedia for images would be a good idea, almost all of these images have a mass amount of glare and unlegible signature name. A picture like the xbox360 one should be posted because of the background and clearness of light. Something, maybe like this image from sonys official presentation : http://www.us.playstation.com/PS3/default.html Or an image from playb3yond ?

The silver PS3, much maligned but nobody could replace it with a copyright free image, now people are playing the console will we still be stuck with a prototype image that everyone wanted to get rid of?. Anyone got a digital camera and a PS3, long shot I know.--Notagoodname 01:48, 16 November 2006 (UTC) FyiFoff 23:48, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

PS3 colors
Is there any information about when the silver and chrome PS3 will be out? And did the 100,000 units in Japan all come in black as well? FyiFoff FyiFoff 23:48, 19 November 2006 (UTC) The silver abd chrome trim is only for the 60gb

20GB PS3 UK price
Where does this £375 figure come from? I've only heard "£350 or less" and even then the euro price is £335. Should it be changed?New*allusion 19:02, 10 October 2006 (GMT)


 * I have also not heard anything about it being £375 and feel it should be removed until it is actually confirmed. Wilester 13:03, 19 October 2006 (GMT)


 * I on the other hand have "heard" that the PS3 will retail for a minimum of £400, due to the blu-ray technology and its capability to play both movies and games on this media it is considered a "bargain" as the cheapest blu-ray player available retails at £800 and that only plays movies. A pretty pointless discussion until Sony even confirm their next release date will actually result in a release, let alone the launch price. Caseh 11:02, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * SCEE previously stated that the 60GB unit would cost £425, while at E3 the 20GB and 60GB units were set at 499 and 599 Euros in the Eurozone, respectively. They've not set a price for the 20GB unit and it's not clear that it'll be appearing in Europe at all, particularly considering the ratio of 20GB:60GB units that have been sold in Japan.Sockatume 20:30, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Yellow Dog Linux
It should be noted the current version of Yellow Dog 5.0 for the PS3 does not currently support the PS3's 3D graphic chip.

previous discussion is archived .

free download
http://arstechnica.com/articles/columns/linux/linux-20061018.ars/2

This is only correct for hardware accelerated operations. The GPU is completely programmable through the X11 fb lib, you just need to know how to do it. The access to the gfx chip is completely available, as would be for a normal PS3 game developer.

Next day street value
i've heard that street value (ebay and such) for the ps3 for the day after it comes out is going to be $5,000 and up much like the 360 was, i've also heard that the wii will go to $3,000 because of limited supplies in the US, can anyone confirm or shoot this down? Cubanaso 21:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I saw a $6000 PS3 on ebay but probably because there will be a bigger PS3 shortage because they are only shipping 400,000 units GrimRepr39 01:03, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

At least 1 PS3 went for $9100USD on ebay to an american customer.

About the nintendo Wii thing, this is false. As Nintendo has constantly said that there will be enough Wii's for the pre-orders AND enough to just walk in and grab one Zabrak 05:27, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Possibly the last ps3 on ebay would hit that high (5k-6k) If this goes the same way the 360 did, then you are looking at an average sale of 1700-2350. There were, perhaps, 20 or so that reached 3k and over. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.48.33.98 (talk • contribs) 16:51, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Three days after launch and PS3 prices on eBay have now fallen to less than double retail. $1200 might seem a lot for something with an MSRB of $600, but given that the xbox 360 stayed above double retail for at least six well - well past Christmas - and launched with a larger number of units US, one might take this as an indication of low demand for the PS3. Regarding the eBay photo showing a $6000 sale, please note that within the eBay forums many sellers are complaining about a group of sham bidders who appear bent on ruining every possible auction. They tend to use throwaway accounts with low positive feedback; the sale in that photo shows a buyer with 0 feedback, indicating - to me - a likely fraudulent purchase. Certainly there were a few $3000+ buyers within the first few hours of release, but the legitimate market price crashed soon after that point. One can literally watch the equilibrium price slide down hour by hour. I predict this will be an excellent example of the danger to sellers inherent in speculative flipping - most will not see a large return on investment. -Jmaynardg 21:58, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

There is a 60 GB version which i have seen that sells for about RM 4200 (about US$1150) and a 20 GB version that sells for RM3500 (about US$960). Any takers?--Cyhborg 04:40, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Quantatity available to Amazon.com at shipment?
Does anyone know how many units that Amazon.com is expected to have on the release date of November 19, 2006? Midessa 22:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)10/25/2006


 * Release date is 17 ? Wii is 19, or is amazon doing ps3 on 19 ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.48.33.98 (talk • contribs) 16:48, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Is the PS3 capable to use Windows Vista?
Hi everyone. I got a question about the PS3. I read in a magazine that the PS3 will include Linux and, because of the Cell processor, the Sony console was going to be capable of using Windows Vista. Is this really possible? Can the PS3 support vista and work correctly? And another question: I read that the PS3 uses 256 XDR Ram memory. Is it possible to cange the RAM memory (for having more power)and, where can I get the XDR Ram memory systems? What´s the difference between XDR RAM and DDR RAM? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.77.37.165 (talk • contribs).


 * the answer is no. it could be modified to do so, but a normal vista installation would not have the required drivers for the Playstation 3 hardware. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.194.7.253 (talk • contribs).


 * To expand upon the above response, Microsoft would need to compile Vista to the Cell architecture and make it capable to run on the PS3 hardware. I'm sure it is possible, but as the same time it's unlikely Microsoft will do this.  Maybe in the future, you can get a VM software to simulate an alternate OS.  What'll be more likely is compiling PearPC and running Mac OS X on your PS3.  Some of you might really like that prospect.  Further, you'll have Linux so there's very little you'll be missing.  I'm sure you can still play a Minesweeper clone in Linux.  As far as memory, custom jobs like the PS3 are designed for its hardware to not be changed.  Nobody has ever put the PS2 through upgrades (more memory, faster DVD drive, etc...) but since the PS3 is much more like a PC than previous PS generations, who knows.  As far as the differences, you can read about them yourself from the articles on here but it sounds like DDR SDRAM compacts more signaling during existing medium clock speeds.  You can think of it as regular RAM on speed.  XDR DRAM looks like it's actually designed for high-speed purposes.  LighthouseJ 01:44, 29 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, I get it, then. But, Is the XDR RAM a good option for a PC just like the Dell XPS 700 series? and where can I get the XDR RAM memories?. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.77.2.207 (talk • contribs) 00:05, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * XDR is just a updated version of rambus (see early Pentium 4 history). It's nothing all that special and it's not any better then DDR, and in fact slower then most modern DDR sticks. Note you can not use it in your Dell XPS 700 and I don't know why you would want too... The DDR2 in that machine is faster then XDR (4.3 Gb/s vs 3.2 Gb/s)vortex 00:28, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * that's not correct as far as I can tell. XDR DRAM technically runs at 400 Mhz, which is comparable to 3.2 Ghz because it is octal data rate. The transfer for XDR DRAM is two bytes "wide" (a multiplier for the data rate), so as you can read at the main xdr website, the transfer rate is 6.4 GB/s. Some of the highest DDR2 ram runs at 400 Mhz * 2 (double data rate) * 8 (bytes wide) = 6.4GB/s, and XDR DRAM is planned to be clocked at 1Ghz, which will make it be able to transfer at 16 GB/s. XDR also has lower latency than the old RDRAM. Be aware that DDR is marketed as its "double data rate" speed. (e.g. "ddr2 800"). Therefore, XDR is better than DDR2; the reason it is not used in standard computers is because rambus has a somewhat exclusive license and it would be expensive. Sony has undoubtedly worked out a somewhat favorable license. --gatoatigrado 08:35, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd be careful about assuming XDR-DRAM is better than DDR2-SDRAM (they both use the same storage technology; it's just the interface and pipelining that differ). XDR's pipelining system is different than DDR2's and is seemingly optimized for high bandwidth and burst CPU/DMA transfers, but that doesn't necessarily constitute the label "better".  There are certainly applications where this type of pipelining may not ideal (cost aside).  Anyway, it's a trivial concern; few people will really care about what the maximum bandwidth to main memory in the PS3 is.  -- mattb


 * XDR is some pretty beastly hardware, don't ever underestimate the power of high-bandwidth, OCTAL DATA RATE RAM. Quad Data Rate isn't even perfected yet. On the other hand however, it's expensive, and not publically available by itself. Also, it's not a completely proven technology, so there's no motherboards besides the PS3's that currently support it. The Captain Returns 02:10, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The answer is probably yes but in a horribly convoluted, horrifically slow way : Yellow Dog Linux -> QEmu -> Vista. With 256Mb and full emulation I expect it runs like a dead slug. Linux might be useful for other emulations though - DOSBox, SheepShaver (MacOS Classic), MAME, UAE etc. etc. --MagicMoose 22:52, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree. I agree with Lighthouse's point as well. Why would you want to???? The best selling point of Vista is DirectX 10, and the PlayStation 3 is a gaming console. Linux's weakness (okay, they have games, some are fun, but certainly not as many) is filled by the main purpose of the PlayStation 3. --gatoatigrado 08:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * PS3 clearly won't have the RAM to be doing any sort of Vista PC emulation. So either viritual ram usage is needed, and the speed of Vista will be completely useless, or it would have to be compiled for Cell, which is NEVER going to happen (it would come to xbox 360 first obviously).--155.144.251.120 01:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Linux runs on what is called a hypervisor. As does the PS3 OS as well. See here for a structural layout of the PS3 architecture - http://www.ps3bits.net/website1/files/homebrew/Installation/LinuxKernelOverview.html
 * The hypervisor is essentially a VM, and there is no reason you couldn't have an operable Windows XP running on it. Its just a matter of hooking the OS into the VM. I personally already know that OSX has been successfully run on this same platform, through the VM.

minor information

 * the ps3 supports important modern audio and video codecs, than its competitors
 * the ps3 will support the standardized HDMI port (no proprietary cables) and the same AV port as the PlayStation 2

watts
i read on the internet that the ps3 consumes 380 watts.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=356 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Falcon866 (talk • contribs).
 * yes, it does. --Dreaded Walrus 01:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * under load. --24.7.86.143 02:57, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * No that's just the PSU, not necessarily how much the hardware draws even at maximum load. The XBox 360 PSU says 5 amps at a max of 127V meaning it could draw over 600 watts, but the 360 reportedly only uses 160 watts. Therefore you cannot look at the 3 amps at a max of 127V on the PS3 to determine how much power the device consumes even at peak. And besides the voltage range is from 100-127V. So in Japan that equates to 300 (3A*100V) watts max. All you can say is the hardware may draw up to 300 watts but in reality it's bound to be anywhere between 100 & 200W and that's when it is running full tilt. Wait for someone to measure the power draw and cite the reference because that is the only way you will know what the thing consumes. --MagicMoose 13:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If you take the Xbox 360's 500W (100V×5A=500W) divided by its actual consumption of 160W and assume the same maximum-realistic ratio for the PS3's maximum of 300W (100V×3A=300W), you get just 96W actual consumption for the PS3 (300÷3.125=96). Of course, assuming the same maximum-realistic ratio as the 360 isn't very accurate, but it's the closest estimate available at the moment. –Wulf 21:59, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That is just absurd. Using that method is no more accurate than picking a random number between zero and 300.  You cannot make the assumption that Sony will use the same "ratio" as Microsoft.  Until it is actually measured, the best you can say (to quote from before) is "the hardware may draw up to 300 watts" and nothing more. Andrew 03:22, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If an exact wattage must be estimated, that seems to be the only way. However, I agree, it is most likely very inaccurate. I'm just giving a rough estimate, which suggests the PS3 will be towards the low end of the 0-300W range, at around 100W (which sounds about right irrelevant of my math). I never represented it as anything other than a rough estimate, so I'm not sure exactly why you jumped at me like that. –Wulf 05:47, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Launch Date Shortage
There has been a lot of discussion about the a shortage in the supply of the PS3's on its launching date of 11/17. I saw this posted on the Google Maps Mania Blog - www.ps3seeker.com. It's a Google Maps mash-up of locations where the PS3 will be sold on opening dates, and also marks all of the midnight launch locations. Seems like it would be a useful tool for those trying to get their hands on a PS3.

Eugene a 22:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It might look like a useful link but it hardly provides any information about the PlayStation 3. It also lists quite a few unverified locations. I think there are only 18 best buy stores actually getting one and this site lists many. Waste of time in my opinion. And in any case I don't think it's appropriate for Wikipedia. --gatoatigrado 06:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Umm ... 18 bestbuys only ? Are you insane, if anything that number says the BestBuy stores that are opening midnight to sell it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.48.33.98 (talk • contribs) 16:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Some suggested improvements to the article
I have two suggested improvements to the article. The first is where it says:

"The PlayStation 3, unlike the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 systems[citation needed], is based on open and publicly available application programming interfaces. The PlayStation 3 development kit system distributed by Sony was recently praised by IGN as having "distinct lack of noise and heat coming from the system". Despite earlier rumours of programming being difficult..."

What the heck is that bold sentence doing there? We have two sentences describing the open APIs and standards used by the PS3 and we'll slip in some stupid gaming site's comments about how quiet and cool it runs?

Secondly where it says:

"In response to Microsoft's successful Xbox Live network, Sony announced a unified online service for the Pl"

The idea that the PS3's online capabilities exceeding the PS2s is in response to Xbox live is purely speculative. It'd be like saying "after having conniptions over the original Xbox all being equipped with a hard drive, Sony decided to make hard drives standard on the PS3". Unless a Sony representative goes on the record saying that the PS3's online capabilities would have been the same as the PS2's or less had Xbox live never been created, this sentence is just speculation.

A more accurate one would be. The PS3 will launch with more ambitious online capabilities than the PS2 with each unit broadband ready out of the box for an always on blah blah blah blah. These features which haven't been given a specific name will put the PS3 in direct competition in the online gaming space with the Xbox 360 and it's Xbox Live online service.

It's true any online capability of the PS3 is going to be related to Xbox live in that they are competitors but to assume any more information on the "why's" is speculation. I suck at wording sentences but I hope if enough people agree with my point of view here that some changes might get worked in eventually.

Also as a sub note. It says Linux will come pre-installed on the HDD? Why is there no source for that? I never heard that. Esper256 23:27, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think Linux will be pre-installed, people will need to do that on their own. I think owners will either have to purchase YDL from the manufacturer with the box and printed discs or they can download and burn the image for free.  Linux is freely available under the GPL, therefore any derivative work (YDL in this case) is required to be freely available. LighthouseJ 17:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That's an almost totally incorrect interpretation of the GPL. -- mattb


 * Look, it's a voice coming out of the woodwork providing no useful comments and generally wasting everyones time by again accusing me of being virtually entirely wrong on a subject I have substantial knowledge about. Do us all a favor and leave before you confuse other people besides yourself. LighthouseJ 21:17, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually I don't think Lighthouse's comments are that bad, would you mind explaining? --gatoatigrado 21:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Sure. I'd suggest actually reading the GPL.  You'll find that it's designed to protect the source code of free software.  Lighthousej said, "Linux is freely available under the GPL, therefore any derivative work (YDL in this case) is required to be freely available."  This reflects a serious misunderstanding on two levels.  First, YDL is not a derivative work of either Linux (a kernel) or GNU (a *nix operating system); it is therefore not entirely subject to the same terms and conditions that a source derivative work would be.  YDL is a distribution: it packages software from GNU and Linux.  If YDL were, for example, to use GNU and Linux and some proprietary software written by its developers, the proprietary software would by no means have to be made freely available just because it is packaged and used in conjunction with GPL software (though there's the linking issue, but that's obviously not what Lighthousej was getting at).  YDL uses both GNU and the Linux kernel, but this does not mean that they are obliged to offer their distribution free of charge.  What YDL is obliged to do under the terms of the GPL is make the source code available for all the binary GPL software that they distribute.


 * The GPL does not restrict commercial profit form open source software; it mainly intends to require any GPL-source-derivative work to be made available under the GPL. You'd know this if you had bothered to read the text of the license.  Herein you've made the serious mistake of confusing the term "free" as it is used by the FSF in conjunction with "software" with the word "gratis".  Free software is free in that you can get the source code, not in that it must be distributed free of monetary charge.  Instead of being so terribly concerned with defending your own ego, I suggest you read the license which you "have substantial knowledge about".


 * Alternatively, if you'd prefer not to read the GPL in its entirety, note this item and this one straight from the FSF's GPL FAQ. -- mattb


 * I knew that, although I am guessing you were talking to Lighthouse. I asked a programmer who released his program under GPL and he informed me that I could write a proprietary program that relied on a GPL program so long as I distribute the GPL program in its entirety. But I don't blame him for being irritated with your completely unsubstantiated comment above. According to some sources yellow dog linux will be made available two weeks after its release. that was from arstechnica, but it wasn't hannibal. And if terra soft needed to modify some of the gpl code, that would have to be made available according to the links you posted above. as the ibm compiler is freely available ( http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com – for some reason blacklisted), someone could probably just recompile the gpl parts of linux, arguably all that's needed minus a nice looking installer. --gatoatigrado 06:59, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it is important for the consumer, if they actually care, that the PS3 will be quiet and will be relatively cool, because if some people want to play at night, when other people in the apartment/house are sleeping, they don't want to get yelled at by them because they are being kept up, also, if it is relatively cool, I think some consumers would buy it because they could play it during the summer without their cooling bill getting a little bit higher. Amish Gramish 07:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The quiet comment applies to the dev kits, and I've heard the opposite. I am removing the comment for now; I don't think it's very relevant. The 22db comment is under the hardware section. --gatoatigrado 07:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed the 22 dB comment on grounds that it is nonsensical. The (deci)bel is a dimensonless unit (like gain or radians), and therefore makes no sense without a reference point.  I _suspect_ that it is intended to mean SPL dB (Sound), since it seems that "dB" is a common misnomer for SPL in lay contexts.  If there's a reference that indicates what the 22 dB figure is referenced against, feel free to re-add it. -- mattb


 * I won't be surprised if it is true (I would think the sound pressure dba is a reasonable assumption, but I will try to find a ref). There are reports of the playstation being significantly quieter and cooler than the Xbox 360. . --gatoatigrado 16:26, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Careful. dBA is yet another separate concept that applies a-weighting to SPL decibel measurement. All the initialisms are probably pretty easy for the lay man to mix up. -- mattb

Another hardware question
hey, i got another doubt. The PS3 has bluetooth, right, then it means that we can synchronize(did i say it right?)or connect via bluetooth our devices like cell phones, MP3 players, iPods and stuff like that, right? I just want to know one thing, i tried to get the USB headset for the PS2 but it´s almost impossible. Is there any way to use a cellphone bluetooth headset instead the USB headset?


 * I was interested in this too. I noticed that there was an XMB demo video of the interface on IGN where they are going through the settings and under chat settings they mention that the PS3 will work with ANY bluetooth headset, like the ones you use for your cellphones. Esper256 23:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, the PS3 is built to support any devices that it can connect to, not just Sony-branded devices. My understanding is that you can connect any USB (keyboard, mice, maybe external hard drives?) or any compatibile bluetooth devices.  LighthouseJ 17:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * USB is a physical link interface, signalling specification, and set of connector designs. It's totally unreasonable to think that any USB device would be compatible with the PS3 just because it includes an EHCI HCD.  There still has to be software support for every kind of device that the platform is to support.  I think it's probably reasonable to think that the PS3 will support the standard HID classes and maybe standard MSCs.  Expecting support for "any USB device" is ridiculous.  USB devices like cell phones, iPods, and many MP3 players (the non-MSC ones) are almost certainly out unless Sony specifically writes support for each device, which seems unlikely.  Sony might choose to support Microsoft's MTP (I personally doubt this), but even that would only assure compatibility with a handful of USB devices. -- mattb


 * lighthouse, please stop the hype, and mattb, please stop the personal attacks. The PlayStation 3 will support HID, and according to Wikipedia's article, most mass storage devices. Various drivers will be available for download . Otherwise, it will obviously not support all devices. What is included as well are bluetooth headsets. --gatoatigrado 07:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Sir, if you interpret that as a personal attack, you haven't been around nearly long enough to identify one. -- mattb


 * Gatoatigrado for someone who is in the "kindness campaign" you assume BAD FAITH too quickly. Give these guys a break, jesus. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.48.33.98 (talk • contribs) 16:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree.


 * 1) Assuming bad faith generally applies to articles, where a user will revert the changes of another. Disagreeing on certain points is not forbidden.
 * 2) The dispute between Lighthouse and mattb had been going on for a while.
 * 3) mattb said things such as, Expecting support for "any USB device" is ridiculous, asserts a handful of USB devices (are not HID or mass storage compatible devices without reference / research) and previously criticized LighthouseJ for his ego. On one level, I can see where he's coming from, and his points are generally rather well informed. However, it's not particularly effective and exaggerating facts to make a point doesn't particularly go well with me.
 * 4) Lighthouse said any usb device is connectible, and previously called the people developing the Xbox 360 system "stupid" and "short sighted".
 * 5) I said, please stop the personal attacks. Is that really that unkind?
 * 6) mattb and I discussed this; there is no real argument that has come between us and I don't wish to discuss this further.
 * Sorry to be apparently rude, but I'm not commenting on this further. I don't think there was any offense done, and your questioning my membership in the kindness campaign is similarly a non-issue because I just copied the userbox. I do support kindness in the talk pages, and as I said I don't think there was any offense done. --gatoatigrado 10:50, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Release date and pricing section
Who cares about release dates and pricing in the UK? Slim down the UK references, increase the North American references and move up the Japanese ones. The market for PS3 here and in Japan is much larger, so these two locations should be highlighted first. Scott 110 02:26, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * WHO CARES!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
 * I think you need to know that not only Americans read the English version of Wikipedia, and it is kind of nice to know how much it will cost in other countries and when they are all getting them.
 * In my mind, the PS3 will sell a lot better in Europe than in Japan, because it seems everyone there is just obsessed with Nintendo, and when they see a console with Mario that is cheap (because a lot of poor people live in Japan, and some studies have claimed that playing arcade games instead of working has caused a lot of people to be "poor"), and it can have innovation. The PS3 will outsell the Wii, but it won't sell anywhere near as many systems as the PS2 sold in Japan.
 * Think of this, the PS2 has sold about the same number of consoles in Europe and Japan. The PS2 has an extremely large lead over the Xbox and GameCube (I have heard about 75% of total market share consistently, so I'll go with that for now), and it is less in Japan. The PS3 will still hold the majority, by a longshot, because the Xbox 360 and Wii haven't picked up anywhere near as much steam as the PS3 has so far, partly because Sony has a lot of consumer oriented things being done. Example, www.yourpsp.com is the PSP site put up by Sony.  If you register there, Sony will ship you a UMD case, but you have to live in Europe.  You get a free case IF YOU REGISTER!!!!!  Also, the PS3 site in Europe had been set up, with more interactive features, and even videos, back when the PS3 site in the U.S. barely had crap.
 * I rest my case. Amish Gramish 07:18, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Exactly. I hate this "patriotic" jingoistic crap, whether actual racism or "economic rationale". In this case it's certainly false economic rationale - the PS2 did very well in Europe. --gatoatigrado 07:26, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Indonesia info for PS3 price are 12.000.000,00 rupiah(Rp 12.000.000,-). http://www.jagogame.com/feature/detail.asp?fid=21

Whoever said this first, has a very small minded opinion. This article is in English, and the English language originates from England, We should have our information there aswell as other countries. Secondly i am confused about is that a lot of places say that the PS3 is due for launch on march 7th, for example http://www.play.com/Games/PlayStation3/4-/1032615/-/Product.html?searchstring=PS3&searchsource=0, however, in the article it is listed as March 1st. is this because Australisia and Europe have different release dates? Thanks!


 * Not to mention that taking out information for other countries would violate NPOV. Ceros 14:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

FA status
I think so....Yeah hopefully it will reach this status around Launch Time. :D Zabrak 20:12, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hopefully. I would sure like to make it so, if possible. --gatoatigrado 21:23, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Very unlikely. The article is a long ways off in its current state. -- mattb


 * Some featured articles aren't all that great, but what do you think it needs? --gatoatigrado 07:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Your point is well-taken, but FA standards have toughened up significantly as of late; the people that camp out at FAC look for very specific things. Using some older FAs that are grandfathered into their status may not be the best indicator of whether this one would pass (and it wouldn't in its current state).  First, it needs to be reasonably stable.  A topic with this much press and unverifiable rumors will have an automatic disadvantage in this regard.  In other words, FA will be much easier a little while after the PS3 is released.  In more concrete terms, the article really isn't that horrible, but it needs a good copyedit for clarity, consistancy, and convention, possibly trimming down of that big games laundry list (these sorts of lists can be hard to justify to FAC voters, but it's possible).  To be fair, the quality is much better now that we've removed the awful hardware spec laundry lists.  -- mattb

The software development needs to be more than a list in prose. How should this be accomplished? I don't think it should be lost; it is decent information. --gatoatigrado 18:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

First PS3 Game Case Shots. See the physical packaging for PlayStation 3 games up close and personal.
You can thank me later - http://ps3.ign.com/articles/743/743937p1.html Zabrak 17:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

actually, I really don't care. stop aggrandizing everything you say. Why are you vandalizing this article? We already decided not to add box art. If you have a substantial argument, perhaps the decision can be changed. The other stupid image for criticism is entirely inappropriate. --gatoatigrado 07:58, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

vandalizing the article? Okay idiot for one I am by no means vandalizing the article, ifact I am (hopefully) going to buy the PS3 in March, alright? For two you got 10 hours to tell me how i am vandalizing the article with the box art, or that its, It STAYS. Zabrak 17:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The image of the PS3 packaging has to go citing copyright issues. Additionally when the image you uploaded has been named "Led Zeplin are gods", how can you expect anyone to take you seriously?--Kenn Caesius 17:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree with the other users. Nobody here is really taking you seriously at this point, and your sheer ridiculousness in remarks that insist that your revision will remain without any discussion isn't helping your credibility.  Not to mention your continued personal jabs even after being warned.  I suggest calming down some and presenting logical arguments with the merits of your additions here if you want there to be any chance of them not being reverted as vandalism.  -- mattb


 * I concur. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.48.33.98 (talk • contribs) 16:32, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

games
Bladestorm is not a shooter - please correct this. (hello is anyone there?)


 * I don't know if it's rpg or action. if anyone knows about it please change it. and whoever posted this, get an account. it should only take 4 days and you can edit articles. --gatoatigrado 22:45, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's strategy/action (like kessen) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.100.250.178 (talk • contribs) 14:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Stop Vandalism
I think i´m talking for everybody. Please, stop erasing the articles, do you have any idea of how much time we need to post our opinions and doubts? There were more than 57 doubt or opinions. So please, stop vandalism now!!!

The Boomerang Controller
Whatever happened to that boomerang controller that the first pictures of the PS3 had? Dylanga 19:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * See PlayStation 3 accessories -- it's linked to in the article. --Kamasutra 00:58, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Let me put it this way. It was ugly and not easy to handle while playing games. I highly doubt that any PS loving being would be happy witht the fact the the controller looked like it orginate from Australia ( I miss my home). Sure quite good for thorowing purposes but not good for fighting game where much button clicking action is needed. Le Raine

DVDs will not be upscaled
Is there anywhere on this article to say that there will be NO upscaling for DVDs? --Jack Zhang 02:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * scratch that. DVDs WILL be upscaled. Link --Jack Zhang 00:00, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * PlayStation 1 and 2 games will not be upscaled, perhaps that's what you were thinking about. It would be a bit weird if there was no DVD upscaling. correct me if I'm wrong, but everything is upscaled if the output is more than the original resolution, it just depends on the scaling technique and/or the sampling / rendering algorithms. --gatoatigrado 10:56, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * And that was a big bummer for me cause I was actually expecting it. --Jack Zhang 00:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It's a pity because the scalers in most monitors are pretty atrotious. Something like the PS3 should have enough spare horsepower, when running PS/PS2 games and DVDs, to run a nice scaling algorithm. Sockatume 00:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I admit this is speculation, but I would not be surprised at all if games were scaled up once Sony starts using software emulation instead of the EE+GS chip. Using the old hardware probably doesn't provide them with much of an option, besides Bicubic interpolation image scaling. --gatoatigrado 18:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

word. Speaking about controllers, no rumble in controller? Big set back. And why dont they realize that placing the left joystick where the 'd-pad' should would be better. (thumb would not streched out as far.) kind of like the 360

Afrika
New games are coming. One of them has the working title Afrika. There is an article here in Wikipedia about it, and it says that rumours says it to be a photographing game.

Add it, please. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Conc3pt (talk • contribs) 16:12, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

comparison of consoles
Comparison of seventh-generation game consoles is actually a rather fact oriented article. it should be added back unless there is a significant point against it, and a larger see also is often helpful in articles. thank you all. --24.7.86.143 03:37, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, this was my comment, but it doesn't look like anyone cares, so I am adding it back in. --gatoatigrado 21:52, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It is in the console template123wiki123 19:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Criticism - Vote for removal
Having a criticism subject for this wiki doesn't seem appropriate. The xbox 360, nintendo wii do not have a section like this and it's obvious they have both recieved their own fair amount of it. Such as the wii being underpowered compared to 360/ps3 with no high defintion and the xbox/360 for having an online service that is close to a necessity to pay for, obviously there are more but I would rather not turn this into a flame/console war. Could a registered user please start a vote ? It seems highly biased and almost non-factual for the reason it's based on consumer/reviewer etc. opinions. Thank You. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.48.33.98 (talk • contribs) 17:45, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Please sign your talk page comments. Dancter 18:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I've gotten into disputes about this before, I just feel that dynamic ips have no need for signing for many obvious reasons.--70.48.33.98 19:22, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It makes it difficult to figure out who is whom in the case where multiple IP users are commenting and not signing. So consider it courtesy to everyone who may read your commentsa  and remember that it's only three or four extra keystrokes.  Failing that, realize that someone will sign your posts for you if you do not, so you might as well do it. -- mattb
 * Your IP is persistent enough to reasonably identify all your recent comments as coming from the same person. Even if it changes day by day, having dynamic IP users sign their comments is not useless. If it's a privacy issue, use a registered account. At the very least, do us the courtesy of providing a timestamp, to allow us to follow threads more easily. Five tildes. It's not hard. Though I highly suggest a full signature. Dancter 20:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The current "Criticism" section may as well be merged into "Release data and pricing" ˉˉanetode╦╩ 19:50, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I would oppose any suggestion that the criticism should be removed or merged. In its current state, the "criticism" section is legitimate and significant enough to be its own section, having been referenced by many reliable sources.--Kenn Caesius 20:41, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well if the criticism section remains, one should be added to Xbox 360 among others. Dionyseus 20:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not a question of whether the Xbox 360 article needs a criticism section or not. No one is going to think the Xbox is somehow better because its article doesn't have a criticism section. Hopefully no one, particularly on Wikipedia, is that stupid. Add one to the Xbox article only if it needs it. This talk page is for discussing this article. Merging criticism is not necessary, and adds additional clarity that this is from an outside source. --136.152.208.42 22:59, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No one is questioning the legitimacy or significance of what is discussed within the criticism section. However, so far the only content it contains deals specifically with the console pricing. Seperating these specific criticisms accomplishes little, aside from having an attention-seeking "Criticism" header in the table of contents of this article. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 20:54, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Anetode has a point. It may not be a bad idea to merge the current criticism section into "Release data and pricing".  Dionyseus 21:12, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Merging doesn't sound like a bad idea to me either, good idea.<(70.48.33.98) --69.158.172.68 00:35, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * 3..D..O No criticism sub category, only one about its demise. Strange for a $699 US console, no ? 3D0  --64.231.254.43 09:48, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * so long as valid information stays, in due weight, it's fine with me if you reorganize it. --gatoatigrado 10:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Dionyseus has merged the criticism section into the Release Date & Pricing section. Since the criticism section refers mostly to the high price, with the remainder talking about Sony stock value (financial-related) I think it fits well in this position, though it wouldn't surprise me if it's reverted by someone. SynergyBlades 12:43, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It makes perfect sense to keep it this way. The issue has been discussed on other articles (ie. Wii), and it's generally seen that having a seperate "Criticism" section naturally introduces a POV into the article. Unless the subject is particularily notable for criticism around it, it's better to integrate the info into other sections. Some people would probably argue until they were blue if a "praise" section was added. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 16:38, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that some criticisms should be put in respective catagories (ie, Nintendo fans feeling ripped off by the tilt sensors, and PS1 downloads, and other things such as costs and delays. We don't need a whole section though.Purplepurplepurple 22:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow I just noticed Playstation has a criticism section as well, why do all Sony consoles recieve this ? It doesn't get placed with the xbox or 360, the nintendo consoles, I removed it from the playstation article. It's an attention grabber and also had no citations, basically weasel wording.--67.70.109.75 19:13, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Personally I see no problem with having a critisim section for the PS3 but if we add a critisim section for the PS3 then we would have to provide one for the Xbox 360 and the Wii. Also provided that all items in the critisim sections for all consoles is properly sourced. SleepyDan 20:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I thinkthat a criticism section would be ok if we added one to the Wii and 360 pages Jordan0042 21:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I deleted the criticism section, poorly written, no citations, and blatently bias, I think we need to lock this page again--evangelion883

uh, shouldn't criticism be bias?--- Cry On 21:03, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Folding@home proyect
Ok gentlemen, here´s a good question I want to make Why the PS3 will be part of the Folding@home proyect? I read a little bit about that proyect, but I still don´t understand why the PS3 will be used for this proyect. Can someone explain me?
 * Your spelling mistakes are questionable, but it seems like it's Viral Marketing on Sonys part. There could be any one of a number of reasons, perhaps if they intend to release cell for the PC market this would give some factual information to its previous usage. --64.231.254.95 01:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The reason is because the PS3 has a cell processor, and because of this, it will be freakishly powerful, and they may be able to cure many diseases a lot quicker if a lot of users use this. Also, it's good for the PS3, because it actually DOES cure diseases!!!!! Amish Gramish 06:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * This is... An over-optimistic view at best. -- mattb


 * I agree with Matt. It may be viral marketing, but perhaps it will go to some good. I think folding@home has questionable ability to cure diseases – I haven't heard of any cures at least. What's not very questionable is that it would be beneficial if the government allowed scientists to (legally) do research with Cannabis. If they chose to support BOINC it would probably allow smaller projects to use it, which might make arguably better use of the processor's time. --gatoatigrado 18:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not really about cooking up cures, at least not in the sense that it pumps out drug molecules or something. It's to model protein folding by the interatomic forces involved, which is an open biochemical problem. If you model the folding of proteins involved in disease, you can model how those proteins act and thus work on treatments The other side of the problem, predicting protein folding from primary structure by mapping the related potential energy surface, is already being worked on through BOINC. Forget what the project's called. And yes, people need to do more work on cannabis, we still don't really know how the hell the CB1 and CB2 receptors actually work. Sockatume 00:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Locked
Can someone add an extermal link to www.myInstantAlerts.com

the page is ....locked, but someone needs to fix the launch titles:

new info: http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7200 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.205.4.140 (talk • contribs).

(sorry by the mess if a caused some) in the corrections of the launch titles, is important to notice that "heavy rain" is a tech demo (as described in wikipedia) and not a action title. i would worth mention it as in a section of capabilities of the hardware, or, something related.

Official User's Guide
Looks like SONY digitalized the PS3 manual --Ragnarok Addict 16:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/index.html


 * This article is already referencing parts of the manual. --gatoatigrado 18:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Typos
In the Hardware Summary section:

The PS3's 3.2 GHz Cell processor, developed jointly by Sony, Toshiba and IBM ("SIT"),

The correct acronym is "STI".

That is now fixed TeamOverload 18:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Europe Release Date Now Unconfirmed
Should we change the Europe Release date details to unconfirmed or something like that. Sony has now stated that they can not confirm the EU launch will be in March 07: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/745/745210p1.html TeamOverload 18:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Great for us Europeans who've remained faithful to Sony, I doubt we'll even get a 2% discount on prices either. It's rather pathetic.


 * "Hey, we've given the Xbox 360 one Christmas. I'm feeling generous, how about we give them another in Europe? In fact, let's give the Wii one too. And an Easter Break?" THIS IS NOT GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE. Ahem. Yes, well added to the article. Sockatume 23:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * um, easter break shopping? lol. religious fanatic? just kidding no offense, I agree with your points. --gatoatigrado 01:29, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


 * None taken. Usually there are school holidays around then, I've seen quite a few big game launches in the period (Metroid Prime, for example, and MGS2 was originally lined up for it). Sockatume 16:21, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone Vandalised It Again
Someone had deleted the talk page and replaced it with Hi Cheese. I have now restored it, but this NEEDS TO STOP. TeamOverload 18:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

removing the "future product label"
can somebody removes the "future product" label, as PS3 will be released in just about 2 hours (11 Nov, 7.00AM Japanese time) --147.197.190.40 19:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

request for information
I don't know if anyone here is getting a PlayStation 3, but I am interested how much access Linux has to the RSX. yellow dog is running on e17, which isn't accelerated (as far as I know), so that doesn't give any clues. Thanks. --gatoatigrado 01:44, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I found this thread which talks about it.  Basically, I found that Terrasoft compiled YDL to acknowledge the cores but didn't get that far.  Probably once it comes out and people can get inside of it, we'll get more support.  Here's Terrasoft's supported area where that information would officially be released . LighthouseJ 22:02, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


 * from what the ars people are saying I guess someone will have to do some hacking to access the rsx, then it will probably be hard to get opengl to work with it. --gatoatigrado 18:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

launch delays
I think the PAL launch delays are because they must start making PAL PS3's, and the unconfirmed Europe release date would be due to sony wanting a lot more consoles ready for Europe then they did for Japan.


 * Will the one released in Hong Kong the PAL version? If so then that probably means HK will get all of the
 * first PAL units. 219.73.41.98 16:11, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Hong Kong uses the PAL TV standard and the same electricity setup (including the same plug shape) as the UK, but it's not part of Blu-Ray Region 2. So it's anyone's guess really. Sockatume 17:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Japanese 60GB price
according to BBC.co.uk, the price of 60GB PS3 is 60000 Yen. And please, could somebody removes "FUTURE PRODUCTS" label, because PS3 was released last night and it is no longer unreleased product--147.197.190.40 11:37, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's still a future product because it has not come out in Europe, America, etc. And add the link to confirm heres one news.bbc.co.uk. London UK  ( talk ) 11:43, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * However, the product is "in the wild" (selling in Japan and consoles are already in the US) and cannot be changed now, hence why it's no longer a future product. LighthouseJ 21:51, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

bladestorm
any chance of getting Bladestorm:the hundred years war put under the correct heading in the games section? It is not a shooter at all...


 * lol probably not. --gatoatigrado 18:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Instead of responding with a quip why didn't you correct it? What is the point of your comment? Maybe someone else could correct this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.102.3.216 (talk • contribs).
 * why not get an account??? are you trying to protest the vandalism protection? unfortunately it's necessary, i don't think anyone likes it. --gatoatigrado 00:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * corrected...but get an account, it's not hard; it doesn't even ask for any personal information. --gatoatigrado 00:18, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

intro
"SCEA will determine ten applicants to attend a Launch Party in Los Angeles on November 8, 2006. . SCEA has also confirmed that New York City will be hosting a PlayStation 3 launch party which will be hosted by rapper artist Ludacris; joining him will be D-Nice and comedian Charlie Murphy.[7] SCEA also confirms that only the first 400 will be admitted to purchase PlayStation 3."

In the overall scheme of things - is this relevant? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.100.174.230 (talk • contribs).


 * I moved it to marketing. --gatoatigrado 18:55, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Memory speed
In the article, it says that the GDDR3 is clocked at 550 MHz, which makes sense as that would be synced with the GPU at 550 Mhz, but this (Admittedly old) BBC article mentions it as 700 Mhz. Could we get a reliable citation for either the 550 or 700 Mhz figure? -FrYGuY 17:29, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


 * GPU memory is often not clocked at an integer multiplier. The same is true with CPU memory, and for the most part it doesn't make a difference. --gatoatigrado 18:56, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


 * This article also mentions the GDDR3 being clocked at 700MHz, so I'm gonna be bold. If anybody can come up with a reliable source saying it's at 550MHz, change it back. 'till then, it's 700 MHz. -FrYGuY 16:46, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

there have been a number of reports on net that sony insiders a reporting a rsx mem speed dropped to 650mhz from 700mhz, along with core speed drop from 550mhz to 500mhz. Nothing offical yet, changes are looking likely.

Backwards Compatibility and region locking
I just got off the phone with Sony America and the CSR told me that PS1 and PS2 games will play on the PS3 regardless of region code. This is in direct conflict with the current state of the "Backwards Compatibility" section of the main article. Does anyone else have any more information? Should this be changed on the main page? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 147.140.12.128 (talk • contribs).
 * Sorry, but it can't be changed without a reliable source to confirm it. If we add your call to the article, it would be treated as original research. This matter should be clarified in the near future if, as you say, the press has been mistaken. -- ReyBrujo 19:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

This is offical. On Tuesday, the company acknowledged the console won't run some of the 8,000 titles designed for previous PlayStations -- even though the PlayStation 3 was billed as being fully compatible with older-generation games.

For instance, the PS3 might not play background music to the popular "Tekken 5" combat game, and some scenes from the "Gran Tourismo" racing game might freeze, according to Sony. The game "Suikoden III" can't read data from a first-generation PlayStation, while a virtual gun in one of the "Biohazard" games won't fire properly.

Some older games won't run on the PS3 at all, according to Sony Computer Entertainment spokesman Satoshi Fukuoka. Online upgrades of the PS3 software will be offered, but it's unlikely that all the problems will ever get fixed, he said.

---

Some had edited the "Backwards Compatability" section to read something about "yeah right" or sometihng alone those lines. So i added a little bit to make it at least productive. -- AllTeam 20 November 2006 (UTC)

PS3 Linux
Could some one please add a link to pslinux.org ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.25.134.169 (talk • contribs).


 * I don't see much reason to. -- mattb


 * lol. --gatoatigrado 16:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Anyone know if Ubuntu will be availible for use on the PS3? I know Sony is coming up with it's own distro for the PS3 but that would kick ass if you could get Ubuntu on a PS3


 * At the time Ubuntu (i'm not sure about the light version) uses gnome, which isn't the most efficient in terms of memory usage. it can probably be configured (I don't use ubuntu) and as the compiler tools for the cell are free, I think it's possible in the future. --gatoatigrado 05:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

More info on this can be found at the following links.

http://www.powerdeveloper.org/playstation.php https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ps3-compatibility http://overlays.gentoo.org/dev/lu_zero/timeline Ceros 01:58, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

What Browser is the PS3 using?
Ok, to AnyOne that has a PS3 and has the web browser working on it, Please go to a site using the built-in web browser that tells the User Agent string of the browser! Please, I want to know if Sony used an existing browser as a base or what exactly is reported. I have a page (Hopefully my server can handle the traffic) that will tell most of the information, and I can check the rest in my apache access logs. Report all the information here. --Jdm64 01:40, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It's likely that, like the PSP browser, it's entirely bespoke. It'd be good if somebody could verify this but with less than 100,000 PS3s out there I doubt that many people will notice your request for the time being. Sockatume 01:46, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's probably true, but I put it out there none the less. Hopefully somebody with a PS3 will see this. --Jdm64 01:59, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Your best bet is to email or post a link in the comments section of a gadget site like Gizmodo which has a console. They might oblige your request. Sockatume 02:04, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I sent a email to Gizmodo, but no reply. Maybe someone will do it when it comes out in the U.S. --Jdm64 03:49, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I found someone that has a PS3 and got the information about the built in web browser. The user agent string is "Mozilla/5.0 (PLAYSTATION 3; 1.00)" and some other information about it is: http/1.1; identity encoding; keep-alive; en. Also, javascript is enabled. --Jdm64 23:21, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That means its Gecko-based (i.e. uses the same rendering engine as Firefox). I'm surprised it's so short, as Firefox's is "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.8.1) Gecko/20061010 Firefox/2.0".


 * If the person you found can run all the tests at BrowserSpy, it would be very helpful in determining just what the heck it is, as the UA string on its own isn't very conclusive in this case.


 * Wulf 22:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It's a late version of Gecko. What else do you need to know? -- mattb

Use the Browser Mirror from Central Ops. It should give you all the information you need. The URL is http://centralops.net/asp/co/BrowserMirror.vbs.asp. Ceros 01:50, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

It also has a flash plugin that works (poorly) with youtube. someone w/ editing priv's should add that and citation-needed 18.243.6.38 05:58, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

That it has 'Mozilla' at the beginning of the UA string doesn't mean much - IE and Opera's UA's also start 'Mozilla'. Also Gecko browsers usually expressly say Gecko in the UA, with the build date and engine version: ...rv:1.8.1) Gecko/20061010... It might be provable if someone could assemble some test pages that only a Gecko browser would render correctly (maybe XUL?), and then see if the PS3 browser could render them.


 * While you're at it, take the acid 2 test. Ceros 01:50, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

criticism
As a counterpoint to the small criticism section in the article is it worth noting (in the article) that the PS3 is the most computationally powerful home consumer device available at present - being at least twice as 'fast' as any dual core PC (and cheaper). ?


 * By what measure? Single precision floating point?  What if I don't consider that a useful measure?  Claims like that are seldom useful. -- mattb


 * By any measure except double precision. My point was that the article criticises the price... But how much would you have to spend to get similar performance elsewhere - in fact at present you can't buy similar or better performance in the consumer market. That is my reply.


 * the Cell microprocessor article details the strengths and weaknesses of the processor in a apparently factual way. It is too technical for this article. --gatoatigrado 16:34, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Cell is a TLP strategy. In areas where ILP is needed the Cell will fall way behind today's big superscalar designs.  In any case, dubious claims of superior performance aside, the information has no place in this article.  Adhering to NPOV does not mean providing arguments and counterarguments to every claim that can be made. -- mattb
 * Thanks for your response which I am not disagreeing with. My point was though, that in terms of performance for price the PS3 exceeds anything I know of that is currently available. I'm not why you say the claim is dubious?


 * Because there are already a lot of architecture optimizations, and the cell only excels in certain things though. Mattb is only right for the time; I believe it was he who mentioned that IBM is developing an octopiler, hopefully transforming Instruction level parallelism into Thread-level parallelism. The new Core 2 processor can execute 5 statements at a time I have heard. But the cell does have some level of instruction level parallelism; it can do four floating point operations and a memory operation. The UC Berkeley research document referenced in Cell microprocessor shows it being around 3 times faster than Crays, amd64 and ia64 in specific tasks (e.g. fast fourier transform). Performance for price is not only a non-argument and original research (as mentioned below), but it's not true – the PlayStation 3 costs Sony around $800. the new g80 cards are most probably sold for profit, and they offer a lot of theoretical, programmable "performance". --gatoatigrado 22:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought someone might mention 'graphics cards as cpus' - the point of a graphics card though is that it's used for visualisation - you have a point though - but one graphics card does not make a computer - need all the other bits (power supply, box, another graphics card...) - if I did all that would it be cheaper? no.


 * Indeed, the graphics card is less of a general purpose processor than a superscalar cpu, same with the cell. your cookbook recipe for a computer isn't always used, nor is it relevant. --gatoatigrado 05:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Your second sentence is just an insult. Quite why you think you can behave like this is a mystery.


 * err...sorry, but I must point out it's not that different from your statement "ILP may be easier to program and less troublesome but I don't see how that is relevant to what I'm saying here? so why bring it in to the discussion?". I was pointing out that your point was not relevant considering your argument that the PS3 offered the most power for the money. Not everyone has a second GPU. What's more important than a list of components is whether the architectures are Turing complete - i.e. they can be programmed to emulate almost any operation on any other architecture. I think it is far less relevant to attempt to find an optimal pricing point for some more powerful computer components, than to discuss why the Cell microprocessor is / is not the most powerful computing device. I suppose it may have relevance for a home consumer device, which is indeed what you first mentioned. You do have a point that consoles are typically sold for a loss, but looking at it from a more global (not just consumer) perspective, it costs Sony somewhere around $800. If Dell comes out with a 60% off coupon, would PCs suddenly be the most powerful devices? I think there are more relevant ways to look at it than marketing strategies. Please see comment below as well. --gatoatigrado 17:41, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * again, no offense intended. please continue discussion below. --gatoatigrado 17:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, ok I apologise too. Were getting way off the original point here, and I know this isn't supposed to be a discussion forum... but, even if dell did drop a lot off the prices the pentium/AMD chips in PC products currently do not have as much processing power as the cell... Even at 800 the PS3 would have more performance. I'm quit happy to leave this point be for now assuming there are no issues with the criticism section as it stands. Apologies for getting heated up...


 * okay, no problem. But it's not necessarily true that the cell is more powerful, read below. --gatoatigrado 20:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Always remember WP:OR when writing criticism sections and rebuttals to them. Sockatume 20:24, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I assume that original research does not include collating known facts?


 * There are plenty of junky websites that could be cited, but I agree with mattb that this should not be included. --gatoatigrado 22:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What does this comment mean - why quote a junky website? trying looking for a decent one.


 * Octopiler doesn't "transform" ILP into TLP at all. Cell is still a design that banks on heavy TLP in software.  Octopiler seeks to make parallelizing software all but transparent to the developer.  Cell is MIMD on a chip.  If your application isn't designed or particularly optimizable for MIMD, Cell will probably perform worse than a high performance superscalar architecture.  Once again we're back to my original simple point: saying "the PS3 is the most computationally powerful" consumer device is a broad sweeping statement that is neither generally true, nor would it be useful if it were.  How often does the average consumer need to run a fluid flow simulation or calculate pi to a million digits of precision?  There's a good reason that mostly ILP (superscalar) architectures have been the mainstay in general purpose computers for well over a decade. -- mattb


 * I guess the average consumer doesn't want to calculate pi or whatever, I don't know, but they probably will want to play games - and as such properly programmed the cell in the ps3 will outperform anything else that I know of that can be bought today - hence my statement that "the PS3 is the most computationally powerful" consumer device. Given that a gpu isn't generally available for general computation tasks (note that the ps3 has a gpu as well) how is this statement not generally true? If not name your device that outperforms it. And as computational power translates into things happening on the screen - it's a useful thing to have. (ILP may be easier to program and less troublesome but I don't see how that is relevant to what I'm saying here? so why bring it in to the discussion?) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.102.19.179 (talk • contribs) 03:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * the type of parallelism in an algorithm determines its performance. Octopiler could possibly transform ILP into TLP, if the result is semantically identical. --gatoatigrado 04:43, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

People that compare traditional non-multicore development and platforms to multicore development and platforms are being quite silly. There is no sense comparing apples with oranges. To get the most from any device, you need to develop specifically for that device, and through various research papers: - http://www.research.ibm.com/people/a/ashwini/E3%202005%20Cell%20Blade%20reports/TRE%20demo%20-%20final.pdf - http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20050425/104149/?ST=english - http://www.advancedimagingpro.com/publication/article.jsp?pubId=1&id=2630 Its not a matter of looking at the Cell and determining if it is fast to run your favourite scalar, linear application, because that is a pointless and irrelevant test. Like running MSHearts to test the performance of a platform. You need to develop and compare real world solutions to real world problems with the hardware, and in this manner, the Cell has shown many times that it is a factor better than any consumer level commodity devices, and even higher performing than many specialized systems. For its price, the PS3 is a substantial computing device in comparison to anything else available to the normal consumer.

Cell is MIMD as a chip. It is also SIMD per processing unit. --gatoatigrado 04:46, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Having a bunch of fast, simple SIMD hardware only increases "computational power" by one metric. By another (as I have already explained), it may be a drawback. Your statement is only true as regards Cell in cases where high floating point performance is needed (this is not necessarily the case with games) and more importantly, where the task obviously parallizable (games traditionally are not, at least to the full extent afforded by Cell). You seem to be holding on to the false assumption that extra computational ability in any form is useful for any and all purposes and that computer ability is defined by a single metric and is application-agnostic. The most you can say tersely about Cell that is absolutely true is what I have already said and gatoatigrado has reiterated: Cell is MIMD-on-a-chip. That may or may not be a good thing depending on the application; it even remains to be seen whether it will be a good thing in a video game console. Having all the capability in the world is useless if it can't easily be utilized in applications where it may be needed (reminds me of the iAPX 432). Therefore you absolutely can not carry on a discussion of a computer's general ability without an application context.

Whatever the case may be, including this would result in a big deviation from this article's topic. The statement you want to make is simply not generally true and the statement that I would be happy with (regarding MIMD-on-a-chip) has no context in this article and would require a sizable explanation that is unnecessary here.

P.S. - As an aside, there are various projects out there that actually do use the GPU for more general purpose computational tasks. -- mattb


 * yeah Microsoft had some sort of fastest sorting algorithm content, and the winner used a GPU. Having done DirectX and OpenGL work, I agree with mattb's statements that game code often contains branching and non-floating point operations. I most certainly agree that the statement "most powerful device for the money" is false. However, as the RSX is limited by Shader Model 3.0, it may be useful for the CPU to be helping with some physics and geometry editing. Stating the PlayStation 3 is the most powerful is invalid, even if you limit it to games. Let's say you want to compare the PlayStation 3, and, (what else), the Xbox 360. Any comparisons would be meaningless, because if you ran the same code, one may appear to run it better, but it might be possible to include an optimization favoring the other. For example, if the games had to compete with 4 multisamples, the Xbox might win because it can do antialiasing almost for free with the 10mb chip. But if the game used a lot of shaders for HDR bloom and didn't need the antialiasing, the PlayStation 3 might win. Neither situation is evidence that one console is better, because it is impossible to prove that no further optimizations exist. --gatoatigrado 05:47, 14 November 2006
 * I'm not sure about a comparison of the xbox360 and PS3 gpu's. However I was assuming that they would be used for their intended purpose - producing video output and would not be available for other computations. It seems that they are at least similar in capability? In this case this leaves a comparison of the cpu's - giving the ps3 an advantage albeit at a higher price. I've also assumed that any software used would be written specifically for that processor - otherwise the cell would be no better than a bog standard powerPC. I still think my original statement is true (see beginning) but accept that it's not a useful addition to the article.


 * I personally do not think the Xbox 360's gpu is quite as powerful as the PlayStation 3's gpu, but can make up for most of the lost ground with a few more shader functions, and free antialiasing. You can see the Xbox 360 article if you want to read more. Otherwise, I have heard the Xbox 360's gpu being compared (by developers and people in the industry) to the x1800 (standard edition) and the PlayStation 3's gpu to the 7800 GTX. Without antialiasing, the PlayStation 3's gpu is generally considered faster. The unified shaders on the Xbox 360 are nice, but it appears from the g80 specifications, it takes a lot of unified shaders running at a fast clock speed to be better. It obviously depends on how many shaders you are using; if you happen to be able to fully load the vertex and pixel shaders, a unified shader approach will not provide any benefits. The Xbox 360's gpu has a few features such as gpu-accelerated point sprites (for particle systems in dust, etc.), but not exactly Shader Model 4.0. For the extra eye candy features not possible with the architecture limitations of Shader Model 3.0, the Cell approach seems relatively nice, although not as nice as Shader Model 4.0. --gatoatigrado 21:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * For some reason, developers seem to like DirectX, although I have worked with both and I don't understand it. I like OpenGL a lot, although I guess DirectX does have easy integration of their own geometry file format, which can be exported from many editors. Still, it's not the most dramatic difference, especially considering how much work goes into producing a game. I guess Microsoft hooks even industry professionals with nice "hello world" applications. --gatoatigrado 21:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

european launch
It says "unconfirmed" under the march 2007 date, and this is clearly the wrong word. The release is March 2007, this is 100% true and confirmed. Sure, it may not make the deadline of March but to say that it is unconfirmed makes it sound like speculation, when it is an official date given by Sony and recently backed up by saying they are still set for March 2007 release. 

People, has there been any probelms with the PS3?
Seriously people, it's been almost 4 days since the launch of the Playtation 3 and there has been NO mainstream problems with the PlayStation 3, a HUGE difference compared to the xbox 360. Zabrak 00:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay... Congrats. I am loathe to once again remind you that this is a place for discussing content relevant to this article, and not a discussion forum for people to air their personal preferences. -- mattb

Shut the hell up Matt, for one I am clearly aware of this, for two that rule does bend on certain occasians, such as Deaths of notable people, travesties, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

ALSO this can be put in either the xbox 360 article OR the Playstation 3 article in one way or another. Zabrak 02:55, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll once again kindly ask you to follow WP:NPA. -- mattb
 * There are compatibility issues, around 200 PS2 games are reported not working. Also, consider two things: Sony launched in Japan with 80,000 units, while Microsoft launched in US with 400,000. Wait until the US release if you want to compare both releases. As for adding the information to the article, remember that we need sources. You can't say "The Japanese launch was a success" because you are not referencing any media outlet. It is just your impressions on the matter. -- ReyBrujo 04:41, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that was quite uncalled for. mattb, it was probably a typo, but "I am loathe" should be "I loathe", loathe is a verb. . --gatoatigrado 20:47, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * ? "I am loathe" is correct english I think - the oxford english dictionary quotes the use "he was loathe to.." though "he loathed to.." also means something similar. (sorry not actually relavant to the topic)
 * Oops, it seems "I am loathe" should be "I am loath" - meaning unwilling, simply remove the e from the end and it's correct.


 * oh, okay, neat, thanks. --gatoatigrado 23:04, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Good catch; the typo was writing "loathe" instead of "loath". Admittedly, "I am loath" is rare in modern English...  Chalk it up to my reading too much Chaucer. -- mattb

glitches reported.




Adding to the cacophony is word from Japan that the first PS3 units, which went on sale there over the weekend, have problems playing some PlayStation and PS2 games. That compatibility has been marketed as one of the system's strengths.

A statement from Sony confirms PS3s have problems such as dropped audio, freezes or controller malfunction with about 200 of 8,000 older titles (among those reported with problems are popular Gran Turismo and Final Fantasy games).

PS3 buyers can download an update that addresses the problem Friday on the PlayStation Network and on playstation.com. "I can't guarantee it will make the system 100% backward-compatible with all 8,000 titles," spokesman Patrick Seybold says. "We are evaluating every title and will work to provide compatibility fixes through regular firmware updates."

this should probably be placed in the article. 200 titles is huge, with big name games like final fantasy being involved. dposse 14:22, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

However, 200 titles out of over 7500 is not much (less than 3%, with alot of these 200 games being counted more than once for NTSC and PAL versions). Although this issue has received alot of negative media attention, I don't think it qualifies as fact, and I don't feel that any specifications or Sony quotes should be edited on this. Cmsjustin 15:12, 15 November 2006 (UTC) By the way, I am under the impression that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and that it is our duty to report facts, even ones we don't like...right? 72.43.142.103 15:56, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * How could it not qualify as fact? If 200 games don't work, that is a fact, not an opinion.  It can be proven.  To quote the article on GameSpot.com, "Titles with problems include Final Fantasy XI, Silent Hill 2, Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams, and Tekken 5.  A Sony spokesperson told GameSpot 'We are aware that a select number of titles have compatibility issues but these problems will be fixed with a software upgrade that will be available in the near future.'  Sony will have approximately 400,000 PS3s available for the system's North American launch this Friday and the company expects the backward-compatibility issue to also affect those units."  The entire article is here: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6161638.html?tag=latestnews;title;0


 * There is no way to determine the "truth". Therefore, we rely on verifiability, and try to avoid undue weight. --gatoatigrado 17:46, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If Sony reps are acknowledging the problem and The New York Times, USA Today, and GameSpot are writing articles about it, then what other proof do you need? 72.43.142.103 18:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I was not arguing, but I do think this could possibly be undue weight. I already revised the backwards compatibility section to be less detailed - we do not need to list every non-compatible game in the main article. The xbox has its own list, but Sony already has a database of titles. I will add that link soon; it's good because it can be updated as more software updates for the playstation 3 are released. --gatoatigrado 18:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Regarding the backwards-compatibility problem, the current wording in the article is a bit sugar-coated. If someone wants to edit it to be more cut-and-dry and factual, it would make the article more encyclopedic.  I don't care enough about a broken $500 toy to get into an argument about it. 72.43.142.103 18:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * um, I don't see what you mean. Sony always created the "technical requirements checklist" (at or soon after e3 2005) to excuse themselves from incomplete backwards compatibility. Compared to Microsoft's small fraction, which actually requires them to create a profile for each game, the PlayStation 3 is much better. If there is a "more factual" way that's fine. I don't see the point enumerating every single game that doesn't work though. If you would like to create a List of games backwards compatible with the PlayStation 3, that would be fine with me. But as I said, Sony already has a database. --gatoatigrado 20:32, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I think we should wait for the US version of this page to come out, then (unless anyone thinks Wikipedia needs its own version), it should be linked to. . --gatoatigrado 20:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

top selling game
how can the ps3 have a top selling game when its not out yet? --Jordan0042 22:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

nevermindJordan0042 22:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * yes/no your quite right - it's the top selling game in Japan - I don't think this makes sense for the English article?

Important information
OK, I'll take the information that I submitted about the Playstation 3 having the backward compability of None off, because you corrected me on that. I would never hurt Wikipedia. I'm a new user as well, a novice. Thanks for the tip, JONJONAUG. I will look in the Article for those issues and glitches. But, I did not delibertly submit false information.


 * To quote from an earlier discussion - "A Sony spokesperson told GameSpot 'We are aware that a select number of titles have compatibility issues but these problems will be fixed with a software upgrade that will be available in the near future.' "


 * A few slight glitches in a select number of games is not even nearly enough reason to change the Backward Compability yo None. I cant help but getting the feeling you're not really suggesting this to help Wikipedia.Flexxx 01:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The PlayStation 2 had similar compatibility issues, and that is in the article there. It should be added that some Final Fantasy titles are having problems as well. JONJONAUG 13:46, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Am I missing a joke? just wondering why both of you have hyperlinked none, shit I've done it now.

Bluray support
Has anyone confirmed wether or not the ps3 will be able to play bluray movies and not just games,it doesnt seem to be specified.And if it can,it should really be mentioned somewhere in this article,because that would be a marketing advantage for the ps3 as standalone players cost more than the ps3 itself.Rodrigue 23:32, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes - it does and it is in the article - though perhaps it could be clearer - I had to look for a bit to find it.


 * okay, if you have a way to say it better. --gatoatigrado 02:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

If your TV doesn't support a specific resolution, expect to go low-res.
More bad news for this piece of ****. - http://au.ps3.ign.com/articles/746/746282p1.html Zabrak 02:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * lol now you hate the PS3. --gatoatigrado 02:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

US Release madness
Is there a specific reason why this article doesn't mention anything about the mass number of people camping out, planning to ebay, etc? To my knowledge there has never been a release of a product with such high demand where supply has been so short. Most stores around me already have at least a few people "camping" outside and some have over a hundred waiting customers. If the news/tech websites are any indication, my area isn't the only place like this. It really does appear to be a notable release. So again, is there a reason why this isn't included in the article? 71.125.145.244 04:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, because your pussy ass did not put in, quit beeing a baby and put it in, if some nerd deletes it, well man up and put it in back in. Zabrak 04:47, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the speedy reply! 71.125.145.244 05:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Haha. If you want it in, then just put it in. Bobguy89 13:09, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll tell you what's messed up about the situation. Thousands of people, such as myself, preordered the system a month ago and paid it off in full.  Now, tonight, I don't get one, because of the shortage of the first shipment.  That's generally not a problem, until I realized that there are Best Buys, Circuit Citys, Targets, and all other types of retailers that will be giving out 10-50 units tonight for sale.  Why don't the initial preorders get the system first, like the definition of preorder implies?  Instead, half of the preorders get filled, and the rest go to retailers.  Simply cutting back 50% of the systems going to retailers would fulfill the preorders.  But nope, I get to wait until possibly after Christmas, even though I bought the damn thing a month ago. Punchinelli 17:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Before reading this question, I had just finished adding such a section PlayStation_3. Awakefield 16:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Here's a story about the PS3 Launch campouts in Chicago. Can/should we include this somewhere? bflora 1:36, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Blu-ray Question
I had heard that the PS3's Blu-ray will imprint a personal tag on any game you play so that the original PS3 used to play the disc will be the only PS3 that can play it ever, as a way of combating piracy. Is this true? --Kansolo 7:40am November 16, 2006 (PST)

Well ive heard that as well, and i believe that you can put the information onto a card or something so you can use it on a different ps3, also, Sam and Chase is gay on Wed-Fri.

Does any of you have any link to where it says "Blu-ray will imprint a personal tag on any game you play so that the original PS3"?? because i didnt hear that.........-= virus =- 0.o 16:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Is this in the article? it was probably vandalism. --gatoatigrado 17:07, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It was never in the article to begin with. I am sure that both users are refering to same matter that was brought in the twelfth talk page archive question "is it true you cannot rent PS3 games?"--Kenn Caesius 19:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I understand this restriction does apply for online play, which means you can't play the online mode of Used games, as for games that do not use online play I'm not sure. Dctcool 20:10, 17 November (AEST)

You can rent PS3 games, so no it does not. Plus, in order to do that the PS3 would likely need a Blu-ray burner, so I wouldn't worry.-- DP   4  62090  16:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Price of PS3
How come I got a very different price range for the PS3 in my local area? The article says it can range from $499 to $599, but my local stores say that the price is $700! Is this a mistake in the article, or are stores where I live trying to rip me off? :) semper fi — Moe  22:31, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The prices are pre-tax, if the price listed includes tax then that could explain it. Have to be quite a bit of tax though. Sockatume 22:44, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Some stores are forcing people to buy a bundle package; the ps3 and some games as well. Here's an example, although it's much more expensive than what you quoted. Ask the people at the store exactly what you get for that $700. 71.125.158.204 23:31, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If you think thats bad you should see the price in here: $1,361.28 with no extras or anything but I'm guessing it's because the PS3 isn't even supposed to be sold here.--195.229.242.88 12:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

basic economics question
Are Sony and Microsoft responsible for telling their investors the manufacturing cost of the consoles? How come there are only estimates? another estimate, actually very similar to the estimate in this article. --gatoatigrado 06:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The information you are talking about would more than likely come during either A) a press release that they've held or (more likely) B) the annual report. But even then, you'd have to decode the financial statements contained inside. I don't follow Sony and Microsoft enough to know what estimates they've given, but I think they would be holding back the actual manufacturing costs because they can for now.-- Farquaadhnchmn ( Dungeon ) 16:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't think they are - and they should be taking a much larger or longer term view as opposed to how profitable the actual hardware package is to sell. For both companies having a finger in the game console pie confirms their position as big players - and will actually add a premium to the value of their brands - ever wondered why sony DVD players cost more than (insert generic best-buy name) DVD players? In the long term the profitability of the Playstation brand not only depends on how much a PS3 costs - but how many they sell, how much software they sell etc. As long as overall they at least break even that's ok.

there was a drive by shooting in kentucky for the ps3 and i guess there was someone got shot in the back of the leg. And there was kind of a funny comment and it said that it was a good idea to scare people off to make the line shorter.


 * No way. That's considered proprietary information and neither the SEC nor the Stock Exchanges require companies to provide that type of information.  The financial reports may have some "hints" but that's all.OrangeMarlin 19:04, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

PS3 sales numbers
According to media create, PS3 sold 81,639 upon it's launch in Japan. Which numbers should be used, the ones already in the article or these?--Psa- 11:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Here is a link to the info. http://www.m-create.com/jpn/s_ranking.html --Psa- 11:33, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * sorry, I accidentally deleted it. I will put it back in. Next time include a reference. Please see template:cite web if you need help. --gatoatigrado 19:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

~*~*~On the news today it shows the near riots in stores due to the shortages of PS3~*~*~
Seriously, we have to talk about this, I mean i saw 70 rush, push, shove, fight to try to grab 10! Now if people talk about how hundreds of girls ran to see the beatles, or buy their albums, why don't we talk about the hundreds of people rushing to buy the PS3? Oh I take it's worth mentioning when talking about music, but not VIDEOGAMES?! Zabrak 16:37, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh wait nevermind, it seems that you included info like this already, okay well in that case be sure to LEAVE THIS IN Zabrak 16:45, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

launch section
I cleaned this up a lot and I hope it didn't lose much. I don't know if the non-violent incidents are worth reporting. I also think the ebay screenshot is a bit unnecessary. . --gatoatigrado 19:03, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You did a good job - pity the Launch Frenzy section can't be left in - it's funny - is all that stuff really true?
 * I left the violent things in (see paragraph 2 in launch), I didn't think the place names were very significant. I think it's true; it is funny. --gatoatigrado 19:16, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

The last incident has been proven to be a theft by 2 Gamestop employees, faked by them to aquire the stolen systems. Maduin 15:04, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

expensive ebay console

 * Mmmh, whats the odds that the 15,000 dollar guy doesn't pay up...

You think that's amazing? Take a look at this: :). Although if you look at the edit history all the bids past $5000 are unregistered users... --Yarnalgo 06:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I saw several consoles sell with winning bids of $2200. At least 10 of them. I'd assume that at least one of the buyers will pay that so I've put some relevant information related to those sales. If anyone else has proof of higher priced sales, feel free to add it. -- Suso 17:12, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

 Also this site shows some ridiculous people using sex to sell their PS3 on eBay

wasn't there a confirmed $9,000 sale?Dm-schmieder 04:44, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

New picture please?
I personally think the one at the moment has too much reflection, you can't read the PLAYSTATION 3 writing on it. PureLegend 22:29, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Feel free to suggest one that you feel is better and can be used under an acceptable license such as GFDL, CC-by, CC-by-SA, public domain, etc. -- mattb

A new PSX?
Hey guys, is SONY going to launch an updated version of the PSX with the cell proccesor, bluetooth and the Blu ray disc reader?
 * Nothing planned and I wouldn't expect it. The PS3 does pretty much everything the PSX did, except act as a PVR, so there's no need. Sockatume 16:16, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

"bluetooth" and "USB" controllers do not respect HID standards, can anyone find citations?
I bought a ps3 controller so I could play games on my powerbook g4 (which has integrated bluetooth). I cannot figure any way to make this lump of plastic do anything as either a bluetooth device, or as a usb device. I would like to warn anyone who has not already bought one of this fact, but I also do not want to disrespect wikipedia's policy on original research. So I'm asking for help finding a citatation. 68.158.174.168 15:43, 18 November 2006 (UTC) Jerry Segers, Jr.


 * USB and Bluetooth are just device interface standards. You still need device drivers for the controller to talk to the OS, and in the case of the PS3 controller, there isn't one for anything but the PS3 at this point. The majority of games console peripherals are like this so it's not really worth mentioning. Sockatume 16:15, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that a game machine controller using a propretary connection method is not news. My point is that there is a Human Interface Device (HID) standard for each of Bluetooth and USB, and had Sony elected to use them, I already have device drivers that would make the controller work. The fact that other manufacturers do not support HID is a non-sequitor because other manufacturers' controllers do not talk over standardized interfaces. The ps3 controller is not a bluetooth/USB game controller, it is a proprietary game controller that happens to connect over Bluetooth and/or USB. You may think me a fool for expecting something advertized as using bluetooth to fully comply with that standard, but I still think the fact that it does not is worth noting in wikipedia. Segers_J 17:44, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Other manufacturers' controllers do use standardised interfaces: the Wii uses Bluetooth, the original XBox used USB (albeit with a proprietary plug shape) and the 360 uses common-or-garden USB for all its wired accessories. Nevertheless, Microsoft's own 360 wired controller (which they're pushing as a standardised PC games controller for Vista) uses non-standard drivers. Like I say, it's not notable as the vast majority of console accessories, whether they connect over USB or wirelessly, are not intended for use on the PC. Sockatume 18:16, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I have no information on whether the Wii controller is or is not HID compliant. The Proprietary plug on the original Xbox makes my point, not yours. I have to concede the point for the Xbox 360 controller. However, I don't see the harm in substituting the words "over a non-standard Bluetooth connection" for "over Bluetooth" if an appropriate citation can be found. I am not interested in taking out my frustration by some long winded diatribe condemning Sony for failure to live up to my expectations in a forum that aims for a neutral point of view, but the information is relevant because this generation of game machines is the first to use well known standard connection methods and my proposed edit would make plain to non-techies that this controller won't work with their computer, phone, or whatever with basically no cost in readability. In summary, I take your argument as "Everybody already expects this behavior." And my argument in a nutshell is "Not everyone expects this behavior, and the cost of warning them is insignificant." Have I misrepresented your point? Segers_J 21:00, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * There is a cost associated with including any information in the article: one of the Wikipedia's goals is that its articles be brief and to the point. That's why, for example, it doesn't include IGN's article about what happened when they tried to use the PS3 controller on a PC by USB (recognised as a HID but inoperative). It's interesting, but trivial. One user's assumption is not worth putting a warning in the article. If this becomes serious enough to warrant media attention, then it'll get included. (Tech quibble: It's a standard Bluetooth connection, it's just the device on the other end doesn't use the generic Bluetooth-HID device driver. I'm not sure Bluetooth-HID even supports analogue joystick and feedback, let alone tilt sensing, so using it for the PS3 controller was probably never going to be a possibility) Sockatume 21:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Exactly, it is a standard Bluetooth connection, just not a HID-compliant device. I think that would only be notable if a special mouse was not HID compliant (e.g. Microsoft decides to release mice and keyboards that are not in the HID class so they will only be used with "Windows Vista"), and only in that article. Perhaps a minor word in PlayStation accessories, but even that is unwarranted in my opinion. Someone will probably get it to work with Linux, if TerraSoft does not already have a driver. --gatoatigrado 23:37, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

USB is an physical connection standard, electrical interface, communications model and signalling interface. USB also defines several device classes. Only one of them is HID, and a device can be fully USB compatible without being an HID. The ten or so basic classes are more or less expected to behave in standard ways. However, the custom class covers any device that requires special device drivers. I'm not familiar with Bluetooth, but I suspect the situation is similar. Anyway, I don't think the fact that the PS3 controller isn't a HID class is significant in of itself, but I don't see much harm in mentioning (briefly) somewhere that it cannot currently be used with any other devices than a PS3. -- mattb

Self-taken photos of a retail PS3?
Is there any chance someone will take a self-taken photo of their retail PS3 for use on Wikipedia? --Jack Zhang 01:26, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Lack of 1080i Scaler
Why is this article not a "current event" article status? Anyway, some games and even movies on Blu-Ray are unable to display in HD, for TVs that don't support 1080p or 720p (only supporting 1080i). I think it should be mentioned in this article, as it is an important issue -- IGN.com has done an article on this. The PS3 seems to lack a scaler to scale games or movies into 1080i from a source that's originally 1080p or 720p; meaning that people with HD televisions that only support 1080i won't be able to view their games and some blu-ray movies in HD. Anyone have an idea how I can bypass this issue? External scalers are much too expensive. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.23.51.27 (talk • contribs).
 * wait for a new system update. it should be mentioned in the article though. —The preceding comment was left intentionally anonymous and unsigned.

Image of line
I have an image of the line of tents outside a Best Buy store in Wisconsin from November 16th. Does it belong in the article? RoyalbroilTalk  Contrib 05:33, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Personally I think that would be great. You could put it under Launch but you would have to write a paragraph about how people waited in lines for days, etc. Good luck! --Yarnalgo 06:30, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * PS Have you uploaded it yet? I would like to see that.

Another reference
http://www.isuppli.com/news/default.asp?id=6919

"PlayStation 3 Offers Supercomputer Performance at PC Pricing, iSuppli’s Teardown Analysis Reveals

November 16, 2006

From delivery delays, to technology hurdles, to missed production targets, to cancelled pre-orders, to an apparently exorbitant price tag—we’ve all read the bad news regarding Sony Corp.’s much-anticipated new PlayStation 3 video-game console.

Now for the good news: iSuppli Corp.’s dissection reveals the PlayStation 3 is an engineering masterpiece that sets a new high mark for computing price/performance—even when considering it is more expensive than its nearest rival, the Xbox 360 from Microsoft Corp.

“With the PlayStation 3, you are getting the performance of a supercomputer at the price of an entry-level PC,” said Andrew Rassweiler, teardown services manager and senior analyst for iSuppli.

Table 1 below presents iSuppli’s estimate of major component and subsystem cost drivers for the PlayStation 3.

The combined materials and manufacturing cost of the PlayStation 3 is $805.85 for the model equipped with a 20Gbyte Hard Disk Drive (HDD), and $840.35 for the 60Gbyte HDD version, according to iSuppli’s Teardown Analysis service’s preliminary estimate of expenses in the fourth quarter. This total doesn’t include additional costs for elements including the controller, cables and packaging.
 * isn't this just an advert for 'isupply' someone please remove.
 * I disagree, if people think "shortage" is important to discuss, or violence on launch then it's equally important to discuss why. The economics behind selling something at a loss isn't very common and causes all sorts of anomalies. Given that Sony will never confirm the actual production costs of a PS3, analysis from experts presented to the reader with reminders that the figures are only estimates are important. This is obviously just my opinion. I am also not very familiar with iSuppli or if they really are experts, but the reasoning seems sound from what I've read. Esper256 17:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

unscrew videos
Just suggesting that a 'PS3 unscrewed' video might be a suitable external link for this article.

Units Sold
Seeing that the ps3 has been out for some time shouldnt there be a more up to date number of units sold instead of the 88k wikipedia has that is from the japanese release date? Ive searched for how many units have been sold in the us and can only find that 88k were sold in japan on its release. Paulm27 01:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I found a site that has constant updates of units sold [], according to this PS3 has sold about 255k,

Article erased
Somebody completely erased the article.


 * it's been protected. dposse 16:57, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

ProductWiki Link
I would like to add a link to ProductWiki's Playstation 3 coverage to the External Links, is this ok?
 * "ProductWiki provides a new kind of online shopping experience". No, sorry. -- Steel 16:22, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * ProductWiki is actually a collaborative product information resource. Nothing is sold on the site. All the information is open content as well. Please go to the site and spend some time to judge it properly and determine if a link is appropriate. Thank you.
 * Also, you can refer to the entry about ProductWiki on Wikipedia for more information.
 * I'll let someone else decide on this. I'm still erring on the side of no. -- Steel 17:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Should I place a request for comments? I'm not really sure what the policy or guidelines for this kind of thing are.
 * it's an advertising based site, and any first party interest posting the link on Wikipedia would definitiely be considered WP:SPAM. Please read WP:EL and provide references from that document why you think your link is legitimate. Previous "find a ps3" links were not only fraudulant and false, but uninformative and were removed. —The preceding comment was left intentionally anonymous and unsigned.
 * ProductWiki falls in line with points 3 and 4 in "What should be linked to". As for "What normally should be avoided" ProductWiki might fall under point 12, but the guidelines of what is stable or not is ambiguous. Really, the main point of contention, which isn't covered in the policy, is the size of the site to be linked to. There's a certain level of authority that sites like IGN and Gamespot have on the web, that small sites do not. If you start allowing smaller sites in the external links, you open the door for a lot of sites (potentially). So it's definitely a balancing act. On the other hand is the size of the site really a determining feature of the quality of the information contained within? It's easy to argue that there is a large amount of useful information about the Playstation 3 on ProductWiki, I guess the real question is: when will it be enough? Omarismail 23:12, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

NVIDIA Info
Anybody planning to add a section regarding the nvidia gpu? Or the seven core CPU for that matter? I was just reading the XBox and XBox 360 articles and they detail the cpu and gpu specifications, and was wondering if it was a matter of just putting it or the fact that there is not enough "for sure" information to detail their specifications...? Bourgeoisdude 20:53, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * a stub article exists RSX 'Reality Synthesizer'
 * also cell (microprocessor)

Of interest, Taco Bell/Boys and Girls club offers "Tacos for Life"
Nov 20, 2006 15:03

Taco Bell(R) Offers Tacos for Life for PlayStation 3

Company Will Then Donate PlayStation 3 to a Boys and Girls Club Teen Center IRVINE, Calif. --(Business Wire)-- Nov. 20, 2006 Now here's an offer to play with: Taco Bell announced today that it is offering a lifetime of Taco Bell(R) food ($12,500 in Taco Bell Bucks) in exchange to the first person who agrees to trade his or her new PlayStation 3 Game Console. Taco Bell will then donate the next generation game console to the Stanton teen center of the Boys & Girls Club. Taco Bell and its Taco Bell Foundation supports teen programs nationwide through the Boys & Girls Clubs of America.

"The PlayStation 3 is on every teen's holiday wish list," said Bob Fulmer, Executive Director, Taco Bell Foundation. "That's why we're offering one lucky individual tacos for life in exchange for giving Boys & Girls Club teens a gift that will keep them in the game."

The tacos will be awarded in the form of $12,500 in TACO BELL(R) Bucks, redeemable at participating Taco Bell(R) locations. The party exchanging the PlayStation 3 is solely responsible for payment of all taxes, income and otherwise, and should consult with his/her tax adviser. Interested PlayStation 3 owners should send their name, email and phone number to tacobellnews@tacobell.com. The first person to respond, based on the time the email is received, and then send their PlayStation 3 will be awarded the Taco Bell Bucks. Offer expires December 1, 2006 at 6:00 p.m. PST.


 * Please sign your comments with four tildes as explained in the wiki policy. Also, as stated next to the "save page" button when you post, please "Do not copy text from other websites without permission. It will be deleted." Bourgeoisdude 22:22, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Edit?
I think that "...Most of the public thought that the PS3 sucks, and the Wii would win the nextgen race, as was true. The Wii did win and the PS3 failed misserably." Should be removed.


 * Yes, it should...I personally have been very skeptical of Sony as of late, and have no plans to buy their consoles ever, but making generalized statements like that should always be avoided, especially as one could argue that "most of the public" actually does not even care about game console releases anyway. Bourgeoisdude 22:28, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism Again
The article on the PlayStation 3 console has been changed to the simple message "PS2 sucks", and it has been this way all day today. The current status of the article appears to be semi-protected, but the immediately prior version, to which it should be reverted, is fully protected, which means that I can't revert it (but which ought to have meant that the vandalism could not have happened in the first place). I'm afraid I wasn't able to follow the procedure to request protection/unprotection myself. Quadibloc 01:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC) quadibloc 01:36 November 21, 2006 (UTC)

Too many main headings
What are the most important things about a console?

It's hardware, it's software, etc

According to this article it seems like the most important things to a console are its hardware, software the company known as eBay and muggings.

The fact that many people were aware of the economics behind supply and demand and selling something for a loss and that a ton of consoles were put on eBay is a description on the launch, which is a topic actually important to the console. Same with violence on launch. It's a property of the launch, not the most important aspect of the PS3. Also the company is eBay not Ebay. Esper256 17:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Self-Taken Photos
Have read several requests above for a self-taken photo of it.. Easier said than done.. This console is so reflective of all its surroundings.. Placed it on a blue towel alone with no cords or such. Free for use.. I still have the originals if anyone is interested. These are cropped down for size reasons.

Pictures can be seen here: Picture 1 Picture 2 Picture 3 Cjpluta 05:39, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

To get rid of the nasty reflections, try to illuminate the scene with indirect lighting and/or use a photographic filter. Note how the image from Flickr shines a bright light down onto a white surface, thus lighting the PS3 from below. You could also try increasing the gain on your CCD if your camera has that option. --DavidHOzAu 11:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes and don't crop them so much.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.102.36.82 (talk • contribs).

You should provide full resolution photos, Wikipedia can generate smaller thumbnails of your pictures without modifying the file. --Jack Zhang 02:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Edit? again...
I was reading over the PSP connect section and i found this..

On the main PS3 article, it states..

"The PlayStation Portable can connect with the PS3 in many ways, including game connectivity, such as Formula One 06 shown at E3 2006 which uses the PSP as a rear-view mirror....."

When you click on remote-play link, it shows this.

"So far Sony Computer Entertainment has only announced one title that will work together with Remote Play. Gran Turismo HD has been shown at E3 with the PlayStation Portable acting in-game as a rear view mirror to assist the player in the game."

Im not sure which one is correct, either Gran Turismo HD or Formula one.

Drew, 11/22/2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.184.209.88 (talk • contribs).

Running Windows XP on Playstation 3
Someone has just compiled QEMU to run Windows XP on Playstation 3. Indeed, the video released on Google Video shows how fast this emulator can emulate the x86 architecture somehow fast enough to run the japanese version of Windows XP. However, it´s seems that using QMEU to run Windows programs on a Playstation 3 can´t be more heavy than old or simple games, or using software like Microsoft Office.85.240.135.51 19:43, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Can you provide a link? Ceros 20:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC) Never mind I found it. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8800244920606286092&q=qemu+ps3&hl=en Ceros 20:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not really exciting enough to add to the article though. It's a Linux app, running completely as expected (on Linux). Mac users have been running Windows in emulation for years. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 21:24, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Units Sold: http://www.nexgenwars.com/?
Is that a reliable source? Valoem  talk  07:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No, it is not reliable. Unless Sony releases the data first, NPD's press release next month will be the soonest that we will have launch figures for North America.  Dionyseus 07:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I put that in and I thought It seemed reliable but they are only estimates...Thanks for pointing that out Paulm27 19:31, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

HDCP
Suggestion: ADd to the article that the HDMI output of the PS3 is only capable with HDCP-enabled TVs and monitors. I tried using an HDMI to DVI cable to connect to my computer monitor; I found out later my monitor wasn't HDCP-enabled. An important fact to note, I believe. SpikeX2 07:01, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * This should only apply to HDCP content, like Blu-Ray, surely? They've not gone and applied it to games as well have they? Sockatume 16:59, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I haven't seen anything indicating that the PS3 is HDCP compliant (or that it is not). Furthermore, in my opinion, it would seem that since the PS3 is capable of running other operating systems (i.e. Linux with a HD video ripping program?) it may not be eligible for HDCP, per the standard's strict guidelines.  The games, surely, would have no need to make use of HDCP because Digital Rights Management is not an issue for the video/audio output of a game (the game itself, maybe, but not simply the video/audio that HDCP protects)  A definitive, reliable source would be helpful. Andrew 04:29, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

No 1080p games
I think it should be noted that no games currently released, and none currently in production, will play in 1080p. So far the only 1080p is a tech demo of Gran Turismo HD and I think one or two more tech demos... It is said that they cannot get a good framerate at that resolution. With PS3 boasting 1080p it should be noted that only blu-ray movies will play in 1080p, not games. Thesaddestday 04:04, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thus far! XBox 360's games didn't start out at top quality either.  (I believe "Gears of War" is the first game to really push the 360's graphics).  Andrew 04:32, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

^^^pointless.--- Cry On 18:33, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * According to ps3.ign.com/articles/747/747413p1.html, Roughly half of the PlayStation 3's launch software doesn't support the 1080p resolution that Sony has been so highly touting; In other words, half the launch titles support it. So, your statement can't be included in the article unless you find an article as new as this one (2006-11-22) stating none of the games can be played at 1080p. -- ReyBrujo 04:37, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

There are very few HDTVs that are 1080p, and all the ones that are don't have HDMI inputs that can handle 1080p. I have a friend who is a TV repairman for Best Buy and he said that either you have to replace the HDMI inputs on current 1080p TVs, most of which are 1080i, or wait until Feburary when the first TVs come out with 1080p HDMIs. Plus when I talk to some people I get the impression that they think just because the PS3 is 1080p they think that their 720p or 1080i TV will have 1080p resolution. IG-2000 05:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Oops ReyBrujo you are right. I inverted a date of an article so my mistake...  also, IG, you're actually wrong.  Yes it's true a vast majority of 1080p sets out can't accept 1080p over HDMI, but there are products out that can.  The new JVC 1080p sets and I believe the new Sony SXRD sets can accept 1080p over HDMI.  Thesaddestday 10:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * About 6 months ago I bought a Samsung LN-S4051D 40" LCD HDTV. At that link, you'll see the TV should accept 1080 (interlaced and progressive) signals on each of the 2 HDMI inputs.  I've never ran this TV in either 1080 mode yet for lack of a high-def source but the site clearly says to me I can expect to run 1080p through HDMI if I had a PS3 right now.  From what you've said, I've come to two conclusions: either your friend is wrong or the manufacturer, Samsung is misrepresenting this product.  I'm tending to think this product is on the level and your argument is incorrect.  Do you have any support to prove your position besides second-handle knowledge or heresay? LighthouseJ 01:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Err, from what I've seen several TVs don't support 1080p through component. I have yet to see a 1080p TV that works through component but not HDMI. Regardless, AFAIK the PS3 supports both varieties of cables, so what does it matter? -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 01:36, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Not all TV's with HDMI can accept 1080p signals through HDMI, that is why there are a lot of HDTV's that need to use component or VGA for 1080p. It has to do with the version of HDMI, and with the latest updates in the technology HDMI is turning into the main connection for 1080p...  As far as other connections, analog for 1080p works but isn't as impressive as digital.  Thesaddestday 05:35, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

HD Loader for PS3
Hi, i have a question Do you think that a HD Loader will be launched for the PS3? Of coufse, i´m aware that we would need a higher capacity hard disk (maybe 1TB, just like the ones that Dell is using), do you think it would be possible?
 * Please post questions not directly related to the article to Reference Desk, in whatever section is relevant. To the question: everything is cracked eventually. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 02:22, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Xvid/Divx compatibility?
Has anyone been able to confirm PS3 compatibility with Xvid/Divx formats? I have been unable to confirm anywhere as to whether PS3 will or will not support the playback of this format. --CobraBK 21:23, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * most sites such as arstechnica say it is not compatible, but none of them have tried linux. The applications will probably have to be recompiled for the Cell. —The preceding comment was left intentionally anonymous and unsigned.
 * Most PPC Linux apps should work, and there are plenty of them. I'm sure VLC Media Player or MPlayer would work. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 01:56, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

order of pricing
I am a bit uncomfortable with the order of country in the pricing box. Japanese is number one, that is fine, but why United Kingdom is number 2. We should sort it out according to the release date.--w_tanoto 22:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Title?
If the official name of the PlayStation 3 is PLAYSTATION 3, shouldn't that be the title? I knew the previous generations were spelled in the former format. If those consoles' titles were named appropriately, shouldn't this one? Mario1021 03:40, 28 November 2006
 * It has been discussed in the past. While PLAYSTATION 3 appears to be the official name, it is too disrupting for Wikipedia per our naming conventions. I think there was even a poll in which consensus was to keep the PlayStation syntax instead of Playstation or PLAYSTATION. -- ReyBrujo 03:49, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Australian Price
So the Australian Price is AU$999 which under the USD column says US$680 but AU$999 is closer US$780. I tried to edit it but someone reverted my edit because I didn't cite a source, I don't see any of the other conversions citing a source, I don't see who ever put $680 citing a source. Put AU$999 in any currency converter and you can cite that as your source. Is there a convention I'm not following?


 * Whoops, I think that was me, I must've misread the diff as a modification of the AU$ price instead of the US$ price. Feel free to re-add. Sockatume 04:46, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

1080i output issues
Apparently, there is an issue where the 1080i output is broken. Apparently, if the PS3 detects the TV is not capable of a 720p output downrezzes to a 480p output, disregarding 1080i functionality. Here's a link: http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/15/720p-ps3-games-downscale-on-older-hd-sets/. Sony has acknowledged the issue and originally said they are working on a firmware patch. They have since retracted this statement: http://www.gwn.com/news/story.php/id/10807/ Should this be added in? --Tomwchow 00:48, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

PS3 used by scientists and helpful gamers to cure Alzheimer's!
A recent study by the Folding@Home distributed computing project is harnessing the power of the Cell processor found in the PS3 to study protein folding.

More info can be found here.

72.201.34.105 08:15, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

PS3 commercial
You know how the guys all go on to their roofs in the PS3 commercial? I think it was to be able to jump high enough when they saw the bill.:)