Talk:PlayStation 3/Archive 16

Estonian currency
Someone made a slip up in the price section regarding the estonian currency,i fixed it from EEK0 to EEK,which it should be .Nevermind,i see why it was like that..but i will put it in as TBC for the moment anyways.--L33tfella H 14:21, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

"Latvia price
Not officially launched in Latvia. price from: http://salidzini.lv/new/search.php?q=Playstation+3+60&cn=&cl= (all internet shops) Real life price in shops up to 540 LVL

LVL to USD = http://www.bank.lv/eng/main/all/ = 0.5190 @ 18/04/2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Eldberg (talk • contribs) 06:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC).

"30 times faster" regarding Folding@Home
Regarding this. The article is worded incredibly bizzarely. On the one hand, it says that PS3s do 30x as much as the PC average. On the other hand, it says that tfdjkdfjl;jdsfgihewhe 30x figure is based on a single $1000 PC, which is contradictory; OR, it says that the 30x above the average is equivalent to a $1000 PC. I don't know how the hell to interpret it, though the latter makes more sense considering the

"1 Gigaflop per PC 3 Gigaflops per Intel Mac 30 Gigaflops of Folding Power per PS3"

Which seems to imply that they're working off pure averages. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 15:38, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well Looking at the picture, 1/187th of the amount of PS3's (compared to PC's), can do 1/6th of the work. That equates to roughly 1PS3 can do 30x more than 1PC. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mgillespie (talk • contribs).


 * Yes, but the conclusion you made that it does 30x as much as a $1000 PC seems to be incorrect. The value for all PCs is an average, which also contains old PCs, PCs that don't run the program with 100% of the CPU 24/7, etc. Their sentence about a $1000 PC reads like gibberish. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 18:01, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * So it's a accurate comment to say that a single PC can do the work of 30 average spec PC's. Updating the article to reflect this.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mgillespie (talk • contribs) 19:53, 22 March 2007 (UTC).


 * Again, bit odd. The "average PC" might not necessarily do the "average amount of work". Also, PCs were not involved in the beta test. PS3s were performing the test at the same time that PCs were doing it as they always do. I just reworded your reword to clarify that and to clarify that the statistic is per-CPU (and because the PS3's CPU is multicore there might have actually been fewer than 826 PS3s involved on that test, which would be quite interesting) -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 20:21, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * "During the beta test, the PS3s involved were processing an average of 30 times the amount of work per CPU than the PCs active at the same time." This line really needs to go.
 * It provides no information about the windows machines, so a viable comparison is impossible.
 * It also shows that the PS3's were doing about 51% (or about half) as much work as GPU's per unit. Including the comparison to windows, but ignoring that it performs half as well as GPU's is hardly neutral. Bladestorm 20:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed there are serious neutrality issues with that wording. I, however, am beyond my 3 reverts, so I could not outright remove it, nor did I dare to reword it too significantly. The possible contribution of several thousand PS3s could be enormous, but the information shouldn't be misrepresented. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 21:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

(outdent)Okay. Know what? I just removed that last line myself. Fact is, unless anyone can say how it's possible to entirely omit that the GPU's performed twice as well as the PS3's and stay neutral, and unless they can say how it's neutral to compare PS3's to unidentified PC's, there's simply no way it can go in without a far better source. Bladestorm 23:15, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Where does it state the GPU's outperformed the PS3? I think your 360 Bias is starting to show though again... I was kinda hoping self elected article police here were neutral, but it seems not... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.174.171.21 (talk • contribs)
 * Actually I'm a PS3 fanboy but the GPU's do seem faster... —cmsJustin (talk|contribs) 23:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Umm, on the graph. There are fewer GPUs but they have nearly twice the TFLOPS. Please remain civil here. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 23:56, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Somebody needs a new calculator: GPU pull on average 3.4 times more FLOPS than PS3. Also, the main article claims that PS3 rates 2 TFLOPS, but the figure coming from Folding@Home numbers is more than 100 (about 116) times smaller. Conclusion? 71.117.0.50 00:44, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Could somebody message me with a website that shows/logs how much power the PS3 is consuming when running folding@home. Thanks Socby19 00:17, 24 March 2007 (UTC)SocBy19
 * 200 Watts, search IGN.com. —cmsJustin (talk|contribs) 16:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Anyone who wants to read about the differences between the PS3 and GPU Folding@Home clients can read it here. Basically, you can't directly compare them fairly. The GPU is more powerful than the PS3 in flops, just about any way you calculate it, but the PS3 is more flexible in the types of calculations. Also, the GPU client is still beta, and it requires a fairly specific setup on a computer for it to work. It needs an ATI graphics card with a certain set of drivers and Windows XP. Granted, the PS3 client is extremely specific, but that's not nearly as much of an obstacle, as the PS3's all have the same type and design of processor and memory, which are the important parts for FAH. Bottom line on calculation ability, straight from the horse's mouth: "Bpogi 03:16, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protection tag
I have notice that the Xbox 360 and Wii articles both have small, unobtrusive tags in the upper right corner. The PlayStation 3, on the other hand, has a glaring banner-like note. Can an administrator change the PS3 tag so lt looks like the 360's and the Wii's? Thanks...J.delanoy 15:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. Any user could have changed it; it's the template sprotected2 rather that sprotected. It indeed makes more sense to use this one on high traffic and long-term protected articles. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 15:30, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Irish price
I have stripped out the 21% Irish VAT from the price that feeds into the toUSD tag for both 20GB and 60GB. Stifle (talk) 10:37, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * This is now quite confusing, its cheaper in dollars and more expensive in euro than the rest of Europe? John.n-irl 06:48, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

PS3's new Controller
As you may know, the PS3's SIXAXIS will no longer lack the rumble feature, as the company that sued Sony has dropped their lawsuit. You may want to edit that in.
 * Can you provide a citation for this?J.delanoy 00:08, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, we need to add in that in order to have rumble, you must rebuy your controllers. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Can Not (talk • contribs) 13:36, 8 April 2007 (UTC).

Unfortunately nothing has been confirmed yet. Immersion (patent holders of rumble technology) and Sony have ended their legal dispute and they say that they are in talks about implementing rumble in the PS3's controllers. I don't think it should be added to the wiki page yet. Crazedmodder 03:08, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Danish price
(Someone with edit privilige can change add:) The suggested retail price for the 60 Gb model is 5499 DKK, the introductory price is 5299 DKK and, pre-orders are generally sold for 4999 DKK. 1 EUR = 7,58 DKK.

Price - pre-tax-post-tax
I have serious issues with the current situation where the US price is listed EXCLUDING taxes, but other regions (UK and most of Europe) are INCLUSIVE of taxes. For casual readers, it looks like the Euro price of the PS3 is vastly inflated over the US price, but the reality is the tax rate in Europe is a large contributer to the price difference. There is a small cop-out sentence implying this, but it;s not enough.

The problem: The price INC-TAX in the US varies state by state, due to differing tax levels and applicable taxes, so I don't think it's practical to do a INC-TAX price for the US, so perhaps we need to make all the other regions pre-tax to create a level comparision, or find some better way of highlighting the differenc.. Discuss....


 * The conversions into USD have the VAT stripped out. Stifle (talk) 20:36, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The conversion to USD price for the UK hasn't had the VAT stripped out. The console is £425 inc VAT here, or £361.70 ex. VAT. That would convert to approx US$711 at today's exchange rate of 1.9639 to the pound.


 * Sorry not enough, direct comparisions between regions should be removed, as they are totally different if terms of economy, geographical and languages. For example, the cost of supporting all the languages in Europe, is not free, it costs Sony money...  I suggest removing the US$ conversion column (as people can work it out if required), this will disuade casual viewers from making direct comparisons, and I also propose making it MUCH more identifiable if the price is INC and EX tax..  Will do this change, unless anyone has any objections.


 * I asked about this over at the WP:STYLE talk page a few days ago and so far it hasn't really seem to gotten a response. I'd recommend stripping taxes from all of them for consistency and removing the USD conversions which smacks of systemic bias towards the Northern Hemisphere as documented in WP:CSB. So no objections here. Chevinki 07:37, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I didn't notice that myself since I mainly just try to keep the reception area NPOV. But, it's a good point and needs to be addressed. The table isn't consistent. Chevinki 22:21, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

BBUS 238 PS3 REVIEW
Sony Playstation 3 is one of three new “next generation” gaming consoles, competing with Microsoft Xbox 360 and the Nintendo Wii. It is the most expensive console ever to be produced and has a wide array of high tech features to back up its price tag; some of which the rest of the gaming world has yet to catch up to. It delivers stunning graphics and brings a smile to every first time user with its sleek black and chrome design, Bluetooth 6axis wireless controllers, internet connectivity as well as blu-ray playback and much more. Sony has definitely opened the door to the future with this monster minicomputer.

References include:   

The PS3 requires no additional software or operating requirements, it is built ready-to-go straight from the box so long as it is used for its main gaming purpose. Additional cables are required for use of the HDMI output, optical output for surround sound and Ethernet port for internet connectivity. However, it should be noted that WiFi is built in, which most people today would rather use. The PS3 comes in two hard drive options, 20GB and the upgraded 60GB; upgrades are possible as it is a laptop hard drive. Furthermore, to efficiently use the internet browser, most would prefer to use a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse which is also not included.

The PS3 comes more loaded then a Mercedes with cool high tech features that anyone can appreciate. •	Blu-Ray player: out-doing the Xbox 360 which comes with HD DVD, blu-ray is the most advanced media   playback today. It is of higher quality in terms of picture and sound, and it has a greater capacity. •	WiFi: allowing users to connect to any available network and browse the internet using the build in browser. •	Multi-format Memory Card Reader: allows users to download music, pictures and other                  media files onto the PS3 hard drive from a wide array of memory cards and flash drives. Pictures can be viewed as slideshows, music can be put into play lists etc. •	6Axis Bluetooth wireless controller: users can tip the controller up, down, left, right to reflect what they want the character or car to do. This enhances the gaming experience. Controllers vibrate as well for high impact games.

The PS3 has many useful features; however, it is yet to be fully introduced into the business world; although I’m sure many business men from around the world use it to unwind after a hard day’s work! In addition to its gaming purpose for business men, the PS3 has an option in its media hub or Xross Media Bar (XMB) as it is often referred to, to install other operating systems! Yes, this means the PS3 has the ability to be used as a full functioning computer. Linux distributions, Ubuntu, Fedora Core 5, Gentoo, Debian and Yellow Dog have been ran on the PS3 60GB version. Furthermore, it has been reported that some technically advanced users have been able to get Windows XP working on their PS3!! As one can imagine to have such a powerful operating system working on a gaming console is a huge step towards the future; business men all over the world might soon be able to play high def games, watch blu-ray movies, listen to music and watch slideshows during their lunch breaks!!! With this being known, obviously, the PS3 can also be used in the board room, the home theater and office! Also, because of its WiFi ability it may soon also be used as a chat network within the office, allowing employees to chat, send and receive files and, if the boss isn’t looking, get a couple rounds of Fight Night 3 in! It’s simply a matter of time before the rest of the world catches up to Sony!

In my opinion Sony’s PS3 is a monster in today’s technological world. There is no doubt in my mind that it will survive as the power it contains is beyond today’s norm. It is the cheapest blu-ray player in the market and of Sony quality. It is fully media functional, playing all common media files and beyond. After having experienced the PS3 first hand, I would grade it an A! It is extremely user friendly, and it stands tall over its competitors in almost all aspects! Although it is pricey, when looking at all its high tech features and endless capabilities it is worth its price tag. I would definitely buy one!

--Vinnyvarma 00:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)vinny varma

Lopsided-ness
This article, particularly the "Reception" anchor, oozes positive comments with little mention of the incredible amount of BAD press the PS3 has gotten. What's up with that? Readers need to know BOTH sides of the story and cut back in eating them pies. (Nbmatt 02:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC))


 * Funny that nobody was crying when the reception section oozed with negative comments... Yes, I am partly responsible for adding the positive comments, but looking at some of the very dated negative reviews there, one of which has since been reviewed by the same site, and is now a glowing review (which does not get linked, the old crappy review still keeps getting put back), means that there is also a army of Sony haters, who simply can't accept that someone actually likes the PS3.--Mgillespie 07:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Whatever. I think right now there's like this huge Sony PR army monitoring this Wikipedia Encyclopedic entry in a completely futile attempt at hiding the sun with a thumb. But, eventually, this article will have to reflect the utter failure the PS3 is commercially and financially. Check UK Resistance for a humorous view at Sony's PS3 failure in Europe.168.243.218.198
 * This article's been criticized for being too harsh on the PS3 and too gentle on it, which means it's probably fine. Chevinki 20:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, what's the pay at Sony for this type of job?168.243.218.198
 * Yes. Clearly I'm a shill for Sony for pointing out that we've had as many people whine that the article is too harsh as have whined that it's too nice. *rolls eyes* Chevinki 22:49, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * "this article will have to reflect the utter failure the PS3 is commercially and financially" determined users trying to get comments like that in wont exactly help John.n-irl 06:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Clearly this article has been Sony-PR-ized, or possibly been given the sweep up by the fanboys at project playstation


 * I am afraid I have to agree that this article is constantly updated in the favor of Sony. I have been reading the pages for Xbox360 and Wii and PS3 for some time now, and the PS3 page is the only one that a negative comment almost cannot survive.  The reasons are either "the others don't have such a section" or "the negative news is outdated".  Isn't that when writing for Wikipedia, the point is to "cite the fact that matters"?  From when we add a section, we have to add one for every similar entries?


 * No wonder this is stil a B article. (The Wii article has already featured)  With the biased writers around, it will always be a B one.  I hate to make any accuses; but the "I want a PSP for Christmas" blog incident makes me guess.   58.153.16.193 16:32, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

clean up release
someone needs to clean up release data (move the table) and marketing. sorry I don't have a lot of time, so someone else will have to do it. There are a bunch of little facts. There should be 2-3 paragraphs, not these 2 sentence paragraphs. There's already a sub-article, perhaps it could be "sales" instead of "launch" to incorporate marketing? --gatoatigrado 21:31, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

PS3 backward compatability
Someone should add a seperate article soncering that of the backward compatability list since it is done for the ps2. What do you think? mickyfitz13 Talk 11:04, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I whole-heartedly agree! --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 02:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Do the Logitech microphones and steering wheel controllers for the PlayStation 2 work on a PS3? This kind of information should also be included in backwards compatibility sections.  --24.154.173.243 17:17, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Reference not working
For some reason the references stop being listed correctly (there is an error in formatting) after citation number 65. Anyone know what might be causing this? Cmcfarland 18:31, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think I fixed it, there was an unclosed ref tag, which seems to have started here: Here's the fix:  —cmsJustin (talk|contribs) 21:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

eZiText
The text input is NOT based on T9(r) (a product from Tegic Communications) but on eZiText(r) supplied by ZiCorp. This should be changed in the System Software-section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.233.5.24 (talk) 17:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

SACD Support
Can it be noted in the article that the PS3 supports SACD audio? This is an important feature to audiophiles.

PS3 Games region free?
Can some people please research whether the various PS3 consoles and PS3 games sold around the world are indeed region free, and update the article? A quick google search reveals many news articles mentioning it prior to release, but few pages showing actual post-release details on how the region-free "feature" actually works. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.167.156.123 (talk • contribs).
 * I found an interview with a Sony Europe rep about region-free games: . I think that should be enough. Chevinki 17:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Spider Man font
A friend linked me to this very interesting article, and it may be worth mentioning that in this article. J Milburn 22:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Pretty interesting, but where would it fit in the article?J.delanoy 00:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

It used to be there in the 'trivia' section, but that has been removed long ago.

Graphics Synthesizer
Is the the Graphics Synthesizer being pulled out of the Ps3? Or is it just the Emotion Engine?--Skyfalcon866 00:37, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * In the European PS3s just the EE is out the Graphics Synthesizer is still there. --Ciao 90 18:38, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

What does the Graphic synthesizer do then?--Skyfalcon866 03:10, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * it draws triangles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.102.45.242 (talk) 18:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC).
 * GENIUS! : ) John.n-irl 07:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It is the graphics chip from the PS2, the reason they have kept it, is that it may be rather simple for them to emulate the EE cpu from the PS2 with the Cell of the PS3, but due to the unique architecture of the PS2 emulating the graphics chip with the RSX or Cell is a much harder task, no doubt they will manage it in the future, but for now they are keeping it in the consoles. Golden Dragoon 20:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

the 'EE' and the 'Graphics Synthesiser' combination chip, has been ripped out of the european/PAL hardware, and software emulation has been implemented instead. the original statement from sony said that: 'it will support a 'LIMITED' number of ps2, and a 'BROAD' range of ps1 games', also this software is being developed by externally (like most of the ps3 software) by IBM. this is something that is very important for anyone seeking backwards compatability and should be mentioned, with a link to the current list of compatible titles.

Lauch pricing table
It should be merged with the one at PlayStation 3 launch and relocated there, and the two aren't synchronised, making them very hard to keep constant. Plus, with the amounts of currencies it will be priced in the table has the potential to explode to a length longer then the article, which is why is shouldn't be in the main article. The PS3 launch article also has a much more detailed table, however it lacks the template. +Hexagon1 (t) 04:53, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The PlayStation 3 launch article looks like shit ;) I hope the table stays here, but I can understand that pricing isn't really needed. —cmsJustin (talk|contribs) 12:29, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Good, now it suits the console if it looks like that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.54.154.112 (talk • contribs).
 * Valuable input there, I'm sure any encyclopaedia would love to have you on board. The pricing table has to either be moved, cut down or removed all together, it's entirely unsustainable. +Hexagon1 (t) 02:33, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Best-Selling Game?
Just thought I would bring this to everyone's attention, someone listed "Motorstorm" as the best selling game and cited it using this link:

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=75009

It states that Motorstorm has been ranked number one in terms of sales in the US, UK and Japan, but that doesn't mean it has sold the most copies globally. All it means is that Motorstorm has been ranked number 1 for sales for a single week. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.217.89.212 (talk) 12:19, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

Keep 20GB data
I know that 20GB is being discontinued, but that does nto mean it doesn't exist. George Leung 22:09, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Once it stops selling we should remove the information. Maybe mention it in a "History" section. McDonaldsGuy 01:25, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Its only being discontinued in america isnt it? I know its not out in europe but its still available in japan? John.n-irl 07:08, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

20 GB discontinued?
I saw it mentioned on the Gamefaqs homepage and haven't read it anywhere else, They're pretty reliable though. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Superway25 (talk • contribs) 05:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC).


 * Yeah it's killed. Berserkerz Crit 14:42, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, japan? John.n-irl 07:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

UK Price conversion to US dollars
In the right chart that shows the prices of the PS3 in the different parts of the world, the conversion from pounds to US dolars is wrong.

Flag of United Kingdom United Kingdom[15] 		GB£425 = $690- The real converion provided by http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi is 425.00 GBP = 840.891 USD —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.35.128.169 (talk) 19:46, 12 April 2007 (UTC).


 * The VAT is stripped out of the USD conversion. Chevinki


 * why is VAT stripped from the UK price? it is the price we have to pay, just as you have to pay sales tax in the USA Golden Dragoon 20:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Discontiuation of the 20 GB basic model.
Since the the "basic" model his been officially discontinued by Sony, we should decide if the basic model info should be moved to history or completely removed from tis article. We need to correct this immediately. Effer 21:41, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The 20gb model is still being sold in Japan. --Ciao 90 11:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * But it will be discontinued eventually. Or not (in Japan)? Berserkerz Crit 15:54, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * According to SCEI, it is not considering discontinuing the 20GB model in Japan at present. Dancter 16:09, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * This is the english wikipedia, not Japanese.... imagine 2 years from now when no one remembers the 20 Gig and they're like "OMG... where do I get this?!?" McDonaldsGuy 18:25, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I expressed no opinion on how the 20GB model info should be handled. I actually do think that we should start de-emphasizing the 20GB model, as the 60GB model seems to be developing into the "standard" model. While this is the English-language Wikipedia, articles should still maintain a worldwide perspective, which includes Japan, so the 20GB model should still be covered, but probably not so prominently. If Japan discontinues the 20GB model, then it should be shifted to history altogether. Also, I think the table needs a general cleanup. Most of the sources for 20GB release and prices are from pre-launch. Dancter 18:55, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

In case there was any question of the facts, this article has it straight from sony that is is discontinued in north america. --Ray andrew 14:47, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * As far as i know they havnt officially decided not to launch it in europe(although they probably wont), maybe write "japan only" after the 20gb details untill they confirm more. John.n-irl 07:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject
There is a new project for Playstation products. To view click here. Playstationdude 14:18, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

The march toward featured status
This article should not be so close to featured status (IMHO). Currently for example, the article has all but eliminated any remotely negative bits in favor of an approach that rarely (if at all) mentions issues with the system, and where it does contain negativity, it passes everything off on opinion or non-knowability. The following are not the only issues I've seen with the article, only some quick mentions. This article is too far too dodgy to recieve the Featured nod. I'm loathe to mention the following, but in light of some shady Sony moves in terms of publicity stunts lately, Wikipedia could save itself some big trouble down the road with a pinch of caution now. And it's not like I'm the first to make this suggestion.209.153.128.248 19:09, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The "Sales" section is all peachy about the record-breaking opening of the PS3 in Europe. It does not note the media furor about the 82% drop in sales for PS3's second week, the record-low sales PS3 has had in Japan recently, and/or the generally abysmal February numbers the system posted. 360's sales section, for a slight contract, opens with "Because of a manufacturing bottleneck", a flat fact that's brutally honest. Yet despite all of this clear and well-documeted criticism in the media toward PS3, the only information given in the article is from the Launch section, saying that it's hard to draw any meaningful conclusions. Well, of course it is. That's why you would say, for example, that "critical reaction has been mixed surrounding the launch of the Playstation 3". You don't just sidestep the issue.
 * Furthering the above, PS3's Reception section is one long listing of quotes from media outlets that don't amount to any facts or summary at all. Wii's starts off with "The system was well-received". 360's reception is documented throughought, as addressed above.

This article is still very much B-class. Work on getting it to GA and then A on the assessment scale, then start moving towards FA status. - Debuskjt 06:12, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The 82% is not newsworthy at all, it's to be expected that after a delayed launch, there will be a buildup of punters on launch week. If there was no sales drop, that would be proper newsworthy headlines... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.174.171.21 (talk) 20:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC).


 * I concur this article should be reworked. But sony does a bit of viral marketing and automatically there's a conspiracy about facts retaining to this article ? 64.231.248.49 08:07, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Franco Guillermo Vega Estrada
Why does Franco Guillermo Vega Estrada redirect here? As far as I know he's an Argentinian football player. Ben467 10:35, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It looks very much like an act of vandalism- the page itself was created with that redirect, so there's no way for a typical user to fix it, from what I can see... Ex-Nintendo Employee 11:51, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok I've fixed it. Normal users like you and me can fix redirects also. See WP:REDIRECT. Berserkerz Crit 13:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

NPOV on up coming games section
Quite a few of the comments and definitions for up coming games for the PS3 seem very POV or at least slanted.

"LittleBigPlanet, a hugely immersive platformer that allows players to create their own custom levels."

"Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, the final chapter of Hideo Kojima's tactical espionage epic."

"Tekken 6, the continuation of the legendary hardcore fighting series."

Do these need to be cleaned up?


 * Very much so, i'll do it.Slydevil 22:35, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Sales
I've collected all the Talk Page sections about sales into subsections of this one - they retain their ordering from before. Washod 09:59, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Patently False information in the Units Sold area
While I don't want to outright take down the numbers without discussion, the 3 million in NA & Japan figure contradicts the individual figures for Japan and NA, as well as contradicting the 1.65 million sold worldwide. Likewise, the 1 million shipped is definately not equal to the number of units sold in the EU, as by all media accounts the PS3 was a unmitigated disaster across the PAL region. I propose removing the "shipped" figures entirely and concentrating on "sold", per the entry name itself on the infobox. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ speak ○ see ○ 20:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Especially since the Japanese would have to have doubled their purchases of the PS3 in the last two weeks to make their half of the 3 million as stated. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ speak ○ see ○ 20:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * How does 3 million units shipped contradict 1.65 sold? I don't see the problem Tranqulizer 23:52, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * As it's under the heading Units Sold in the infobox. Units Shipped do not equal Units Sold, so the information should be moved elsewhere. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ speak ○ see ○ 13:45, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Never mind. I added a "Units Shipped" field to the CVG systems infobox template, so now it's accurate. Time to go take a look at Wii and Xbox360 to see if they've got similar stuff which requires fixing. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ speak ○ see ○ 14:02, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Good idea, it is more clear now what is the sold and what is the shipped figure. However I don't think it was directly missleading before since there were a "shipped" tag on the relevant figures. Tranqulizer 14:58, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Dear Sony Marketing team
Please, stop adding lies about record sales. And what Sony should do is just fire everyone involved with the design of the PS3 for lacking innovation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 168.243.218.198 (talk) 22:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC).
 * What does this add to the discussion page exactly? Try being constructive --alexdeangelis86 23:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * To be constructive (even if it wasn't me who added this comment), I flat out don't believe Sony's figures unless they're derived from sales to distributors and not sales made to customers. While I won't be unconstructive and remove the numbers released regarding Sony's sales in the UK and the rest of Europe, I'm taking both numbers with a bucket of salt. With the exception of Germany, the first day of sales for the PS3 were effectively dead. This has been reported repeatedly, in Paris, London, and many other places. While I don't have a particular favorite regarding the console wars, I'm extraordinarily skeptical of figures which essentially say that Sony has managed to nearly match the to-date sales of the PS3 in Japan in four days. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ speak ○ see ○ 00:07, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well since it says "shipped" under the EU figure it is obviously not sales to customers. Tranqulizer 11:32, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * In this case, I'm referring to this:


 * On 27 March 2007 it was reported on the BBC News website that the PlayStation 3 had broken United Kingdom sales records. It had sold more than 165,000 units in its first two days on the shelves, compared to 71,000 for the Xbox 360, and 105,000 for the Wii.[130] It is worth to note that both the Xbox 360 and the Wii sales were limited by insufficient supply, selling out quickly after launch day.


 * As I said, these are the figures Sony is reporting as sold. Grain of salt, and all that. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ speak ○ see ○ 11:51, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

The figures were collated by ChartTrack, an independent firm which collects sales data from EPoS ie. they were sold, over the counter. Google it.

Sony’s PS3 has record launch in Europe
According to Financial Times, PS3 sold 600.000 units just in first two days. --Ciao 90 19:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Dear Wikipedians
This article has obviously been hijacked by Sony's PR people. It is our responsibility to take it back. There's no chance in hell sales figures are rounded like, for example, exactlty 600,000 units sold in a certain ammount of time. That is simply bullshit.168.243.218.198
 * Yeah, Financial Times is bullshit. Sony haters has a posse. --Ciao 90 00:34, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It is bullshit. I mean, pfffft. Financial Times, what kind of generic name is that. Anyway, have your fun while you can lying to yourselves Sony.66.249.202.198


 * Financial Times just happens to be one of the most respected names in finance. It's a publication that is distributed internationally in 23 of the most major cities in the world and has been in existence since 1888... Ex-Nintendo Employee 10:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * So?190.57.7.128
 * So register and please read: WP:REF, WP:VER, WP:NOR and WP:NPOV. --Ciao 90 15:14, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Let's not feed the trolls. +Hexagon1 (t) 09:49, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

3.07 million PS3's sold
(According to this website anyway) http://www.vgchartz.com/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.231.61.65 (talk) 23:54, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

Man, I knew the PS3 sales were doing horrible compared to the Wii and Xbox 360, but geez, if those charts are accurate then that's like overkill. Oh well, Sony deserves it for being so cocky all these years.Link&#39;s Awakening 21:57, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

The Xbox 360 has been available for well over a year now, its hardly a fair comparison. Also from a techincal perspective the Wii is only a cheap sixth-generation console with a gimmicky remote masquerading as a seventh generation console, in fact the first xbox probably has better or at least equal graphics/sound capabilities to the Wii.

Why buy a Wii?, Better value just to buy a PS2, much larger games library and similar graphics.
 * Ok, people, this talk page is not the place to duke it out over the console wars. If you really want to, here is a good place to do it. http://eproductwars.com/vg/index.cfm
 * J.delanoy 00:11, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

@ whoever wrote that junk before J.delanoy, what does that make the PS3 then? An extremly expensive, extremely big and clunky, "seventh-generation" piece of junk that people only bought so that they could resell them for more money to people like you? You know that Sony actually lost alot of money 2-3 weeks after the PS3 launch because people who couldn't sell off their PS3s were returning them to the stores before the return date expired? I won't go on only because J.delanoy has a point there, but I almost feel sorry for Sony fanboys like you who still think graphics are everything, even after the console representing this is being thrashed.Link&#39;s Awakening 07:02, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Vgchartz is highly unreliable and the author estimates when he can't find figures. It's not allowed to be used as a source. Chevinki 01:11, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * He also uses shipment figures. - A Link to the Past (talk) 07:09, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

European sales figures
The article's sales table lists European sales as being "920,000+" in March, but Howard Stringer has told the Financial Times that they're "close to selling 800,000 units in Europe" as of April 16th; the BBC report cited in the table makes no mention of overall European sales figures past the launch weekend. I'm still not sure how to add references/citations to articles, so if someone else could, it'd be appreciated. --aniki21 15:05, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

North American & Japanese units shipped
I've changed the units shipped to North America and Japan to 2 million: the old number (3m) contradicted both an earlier section in the page (section 1.3, Release data and pricing) and the cited source. I added a source, and changed the ref tags a bit so the earliest use of the reference contains the citation data. I've left the total shipped alone on the basis that the 2 million is an old number (from January) and the total might have been put where it is for some reason other than summing the table column, but this needs a source if it's not going to be changed, too.

Needs to be expanded
No mention (except on the chart) of the lackluster sales in the US and Japan? No mention of Ken Kutaragi stepping down due to the consoles poor performance? This section is sadly lacking, and if you read the text one could come away with the incorrect impression that the console is selling well. -- MisterHand 15:38, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

The Playstation 3 and softwares like Bosch
I feel the absence of benchmarks using Bosch and others hardware emulators/simulators on the Linux's PS3.

I'm interested also in a benchmark about Windows (various versions) on a PS3.

I'm not interested in discussions about Microsoft/Windows and PS3/Linux, but in the power of the PS3, and in particular if a Windows/PS3 with a machine emulator can be more powerful than a classic Windows/Pc benchmark.

Thank you very much for your interest in this argument. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.29.225.114 (talk) 11:19, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

Is this really neutral?
Currently in the article: "The PS3 is currently well behind its competitor systems, the Microsoft XBox 360 and the Nintendo Wii, despite the market leading position of the previous Playstation 2 system." While although that's very much factually accurate (PS3 is getting slaughtered), is it really very neutral to include that sort of an analysis in the article? In terms of 'competitors', I still don't like seeing the Wii listed, since they (theoretically) aren't in direct competition anyways. More significantly, while although a reliable source stating that the PS3 is getting butchered might be notable, is it really notable if one of us declares that they're losing? Even if we can back up the numbers, doesn't that still border on OR just a little, in terms of the implied significance? Anyways, I won't remove it myself, since an argument can be made either way, but just thought I'd pose the question. Bladestorm 17:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The statement is factual, and seems NPOV to me, but I agree that it needs to be backed up with a source. -- MisterHand 18:05, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Found a source that backed up the sentence in question, and added it as a reference. -- MisterHand 18:11, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Criticism
i just removed the Criticism section as there is no Criticism section on the wii or xbox 360 pages--Falcon866 01:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but I feel that your justification is not acceptable. Please read WP:ALLORNOTHING. Specifically, allow me to point out that "The existence of attributable, reliable information from which a neutral, well-referenced article can be written is an important criterion [when considering removal of content], not its [...] similarity to other articles." Furthermore, I know that it is encouraged to be bold, but that doesn't mean that you should be reckless. The content you removed was well-written, well-cited, and an important part of the article. It is considered better Wikiquette to wait for community input before proceeding with a potentially-controversial section removal. Ayla 01:26, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, the XBOX360 and Wii criticism could never include such landmarks of failure as 3,000 people being expected at a launch party and only 50 showing up. Saying the PS3 is like the Dreamcast or the Neo-Geo would be a huge understatement. The PS3 is in a league of its own.168.243.218.198


 * Indeed, you keep putting that section back, regardless of it not belonging there...

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mgillespie (talk • contribs) 22:16, 27 March 2007 (UTC).
 * Wii has a reception section. You even edited it... -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 04:56, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I must admit that this section is extremely biased. The Wii has a very good criticism section. The XBOX 360 needs one, as there have been more technical hardware and software launch problems with the XBOX 360 than the Wii and PS3. Wikipedia is not a console forum, we need facts. This section on the PS3 gives people's opinions. We need facts please. I will try to get a Criticism section going for the XBOX 360. So please consider revising this section. --Imobius 18:51, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

From above: "as there have been more technical hardware and software launch problems with the XBOX 360" There is no sound evidence for your assertion. MS has said publicily the XBox 360 has had a failure rate that is exepected for products of this type. There is no evidence that this industry standard failure-rate are being exceeded by XBox 360 or being avoided by Wii or PS3. XBox 360 has shipped approx twice as many Wii units, and possibly quadruple PS3, and have been publicly available for generally longer. This assertion is simply false.

The PS3 article cites a negative criticism from PC World. PC World voted the PS3 one of the 20 most innovative products of the year. Shouldn't this be added?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,128176-page,6-c,electronics/article.html

NEW 04.23.2007: Criticism of the "new PS3 Controller connectivity failure" should be included in a Criticism Section (or the Sixaxis section): http://www.aeropause.com/archives/2007/04/my_sixaxis_act.php http://www.aeropause.com/archives/2006/11/sixaxis_freakin.php

NEW 04.23.2007: Criticism of the PS3 "emitting a high pitched whine" should be included in a Criticm Section (or the Hardware section): http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&thread.id=1360023&view=by_date_ascending&page=1 http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/04/11/new-ps3-systems-may-include-a-bonus-high-pitched-whine

NEW 04.23.2007: Criticism of the PS3 in the "Release data and pricing" should include news that UK Retailers are making non-Sony authorized discounts to unload excess stock: http://www.mcvuk.com/news/26631/PS3-slashed-to-under-390

NEW 04.23.2007: The Overview Section asserts "Upgradeable hard drive Yes, 20 GB Yes, 60 GB" while true, this behaviour may void your PS3 Warranty (http://ps3.qj.net/Clearing-up-the-PS3-s-HDD-swap-warranty-issues/pg/49/aid/72554)

NEW 04.23.2007: Critism by Dave Jaffe, God of War Creator (and Sony employee) has said "I probably would have taken the Blu-ray out and sold it for less money." This should be included in the Hardware Section. http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/12/god-of-war-creator-would-have-left-blu-ray-out-of-ps3/

NEW 04.23.2007: Balance of the PS3's bluray playback quality should include criticism from this 720p and scaling issues. Please see: http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2006/11/20/6034 http://loot-ninja.com/2006/11/19/ps3-hd-scaling-issues-other-annoyances/

NEW 04.23.2007: This article seems to lack some of the more cynical and critical tone of the articles on this units competitors. Perhaps more light can be placed on the PS3s various technical difficulties.

--Agreed, the XBOX 360 has a page entitled "Xbox 360 technical problems" all by itself, I'll try to get one started for the PS3. After all, it isnt neutral if one has technical problems and the other doesnt even have a criticism/issues section.MCRemix 13:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC) (Edited to include username; had originally posted as anonymous IP)

Ive taken most of the above issues, and constructed a very rough article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation_3_Technical_Issues wageslave 15:22 24 April 2007

I've edited it, but would appreciate other editors taking a look at it to expand, clarify and ensure NPOV. MCRemix 04:16, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Addition of PS3 Technical Problems section
After the PS3 Technical Problems article has had a little while to mature, I propose a "Technical Problems" section be added to the main PS3 Article. This section could provide a synopsis of the PS3 Technical Problems article and a link to it.


 * The addition of the Technical Problems section is nice but we still should have a full scale criticism section. Siting reasons why people aren't buying it as much right now.  Covering everything from the production costs to the control lacking proper vibration features.  By all rights one should be made for the other consoles too. 24.84.108.255 04:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

YES, ADD THE SECTION! Both XBox 360 and Wii have the section, put it in here.199.76.155.213 16:24, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Worst console release!?!
I just read that the PS3 got worst console rrelease ever, is this trure! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 168.212.252.30 (talk) 17:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

I think 3 million owners would disagree with you there, but were too busy playing our PS3's

cough *youmustworkforsony* cough. Listen, even assuming that EVERY SINGLE PS3 that's been sold has actually been PLAYED by the owners, that is still a huge assumption to say that 3 MILLION people disagree with him. Many of those 3 million consoles have only been bought to be resold for more money, and not EVERY SINGLE PERSON that has played the PS3 actually likes it either. Whoever told you that the PS3 was the worst console ever, may be unto something. Judging by the poor PS3 sales in the U.S and Japan, it definetly does seem to be the worst. Europe is the only thing saving the PS3 now. Need more evidence the PS3 sucks? Just look at how easy it is to buy one at a store compared to say the Wii. I think more console owners would agree that it is the worst, but they're too busy not playing the PS3... 65.54.98.109 02:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * What in God's name are you talking about? While I don't think anyone would (or could) possibly deny that PS3 sales have been under Sony expectations and have been lagging as of late (aside from the temporary, yet still quite impressive, UK release), the notion that it was the worst opening ever is just idiotic.  The Atari Jaguar probably holds the slot for the worst performance by a major industry console, and there are plenty of other examples of systems that did far worse than the PS3.  Further, even though I somewhat doubt it, anything could change in the span of the next few months, so Sony's sales could do a major turn around.  Finally, even if the console sales continue to lag, if enough good games come out for it, those that actually bought the system will continue to buy said games in great enough numbers for Sony to be just fine.  Even if the PS3 utterly flops though, Sony has a massive enough budget that we can guarantee that there'll be a PS4.  So please, keep your fanboyism to a minimum. RPH 16:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you too. Keep your fanboyism to a minimum.66.201.172.192

Price is a reason, I hoped it was because the low shipment, then they'ed reduce it by 50 each, another is because noone cares for the controler because everyone is lying and saying it's tilt sencing merely, when PSM and IGN shows it sences XYZ, and the other 3 in the tilting, that's why it's called 6axis. Godfather though not 100% as good as it can do it sences Z for pushing people and X for shaking people.

BTW the commercial for wii and ps3 I saw on the internet where the fat lady was the ps3, that wasn't smart, she needed to represent the 360 which has none at all(thin lady "wee i'm driving...opps you can do the same on ps3") BobtheVila

Please don't feed the trolls. +Hexagon1 (t) 07:03, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

There have been worse launches, that people can't remember the systems in question is probably indicitive of how bad they were. Which is where we should leave this argument. Anyone fancy a quick blast on my Atari Jaguar, or perhaps my Philips CD-i? Hyperspacey 23:43, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * To be fair, the CD-i wasn't a dedicated video game console. I'd liken the PlayStation 3 to the Neo Geo or the 3DO...technically superior, but too expensive and not enough third-party excitement. 72.43.140.65 17:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * As far as third-party excitement, I do not believe that it is logical to judge a console's success or failure until the first holiday season AFTER the console has been out at least a year. When the PS2 was released, its launch titles stunk horribly. (I would use stronger language, but wikipedia is not the place) However, it went on to become the most successful video game console of all time. Also, the Xbox 360 didn't really have a lot of really good titles when it launched. You have to remember, when you compare game selection, the 360 is hitting its stride, while the PS3 is just starting. Also, when the PS2 came out, it was the first console to use a DVD instead of a regular CD to store data. Whan a new medium is tried, (In the PS3's case, a Blu-ray Disc.) it takes a while for developers to figure out what they can do with it. (just ask Panasonic about the 3DO....)J.delanoy 01:05, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I suppose we can always modify this page when PS3 gets more successful. We do not need to take into account of future development in an encyclopedia, do we?

Currently, upon reading this PS3 article in Wikipedia, I have the impression that PS3 is a very well-received and successful console. And in reality it does not sell well in North America and Japan, and the sales in Europe does not keep up. In Wikipedia we do not make forecast or guess, we should present the current picture to viewers. I would say the current article is misleading. That hurts for Wikipedia for its informational nature.

If you compare 360 and PS3, you may say that PS3 is still starting. However, what about Wii? Someone may argue Wii is not in direct competition, but as a newly released game console, Wii faces similar problem as PS3 - few games, developers not familiar with the machines, etc. But Wii suppresses even 360 in sales in every market. 202.76.98.93 04:44, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, take into account that developers do not have to release games when they finish them. They can wait to release until the system is widespread enough. When they do this it does create a small problem. How do you get people to buy a gamesystem without the more impressive games that are made by developers that will not release them untill people buy more of that game system? --71.170.219.225 20:04, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Question
Is it accurate to say that the 20GB version was discontinued in the UK when it was never available for sale in the UK? Guest9999 04:17, 4 May 2007 (UTC)]]

Lead
The lead really needs to be expanded. People probably already know that but I figured I'd say it anyway. From what I understand it is supposed to be a summary of the article. Aaron Bowen 12:18, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Violance
Couldn't find anything here about the violance the ps3 caused. http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/05/ps3-crime-spree-the-missing-episodes-heist-goes-awry-witness/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.158.61.41 (talk) 03:48, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

Connectivity section of infobox
I noticed that the wonderful PS3 connectivity template created by Ssolbergj has been barred from use in the PlayStation 3 article because of a precedent outlined in Template namespace. The edit was done by Dancter, but I want to get a consensus from all you readers out there who, like me, regularly check up on the status of this article. Frankly, I’m hoping that we can agree to make an exception this time and allow this useful template to be placed in the PlayStation 3 article. It very clearly outlines the connectivity specifications of the console in the infobox, and I think it’s much better to have this information up front in the infobox instead of having to link the reader to the section of the article. Plus, I want to give credit to Ssolbergj for putting together the template — it was in the article for a while without any objections, and I thought that it fit in quite nicely. Not only does it present the information in an uncluttered and easy-to-use fashion, it also worked well aesthetically — by that, I mean it looked good. The way I see it, there are only two alternatives: (1) the way it is now, in which there’s only a link that says “(details)”, or (2) the way that I’ve outlined below — namely, to just stick in all the information that the template provides, but in a much more cluttered and unsightly fashion, by simply listing everything. I think the second way is even worse, because it just takes up so much more space, but I thought I’d just let you guys see what it looks like:
 * Flash memory Memory Stick Duo* SD/MMC* CompactFlash* Audio/video HDMI 1.3 Component video Composite video S-Video Optical digital audio Analog stereo audio Other 802.11b/g Wi-Fi* Bluetooth 2.0 4 × USB 2.0 Wired Ethernet * 60 GB version only

Meanwhile, here’s how the template would look (below and right-justified), for those of you who didn’t see it when it was integrated into the article (I only copied the necessary features for a CVG infobox; you can figure out exactly what it would look like in the actual article):

In my opinion, this option makes the most sense, both appearance-wise and information-wise. It’s obviously much more condensed than the list I posted above, and I think that it’s better for readers (especially those looking for information on the features) to be able to quickly glance at the infobox at the top of the article and obtain that information, instead of having to click on a link to a section of the article and then wade through a paragraph of text. This template clearly outlines the connectivity features, bullet-style, and I truly believe it’s the best encyclopedic option. If we get enough users to talk about this issue, perhaps we can put it to a vote. Please comment with your thoughts. —BrOnXbOmBr21 • talk • contribs • 02:32, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I was involved in a debate involving another one of Ssolbergj's contributions, so I'm a bit dismayed at the prospect of going through the experience again. Oh, well. I personally think it's ugly, as someone who holds a fairly minimalist position on infoboxes, but I think the format would be okay if there was a consensus for it. I'm sure the format could be implemented in a more orthodox fashion. What I am firm about is that it shouldn't be incorporated through a transcluded template. If I felt that convenience ever provided an exception to the principle of not using the template namespace for hosting content, I would advocate it myself, particularly for sales data. Consolidating sales edits in one template would making updating pages much easier. My understanding, though, is that this is a firm restriction. I was involved in a deletion discussion involving Infobox software2, in which this convinced me to change my stance to discouraging that template's use. Dancter 04:15, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Well, I checked out the discussion on the Wikipedia:Template namespace page, and they never really reached a consensus as to whether such transclusion should be forbidden. I also read through the essay at Transclusion costs and benefits. Until then, I didn’t know what substitution was. But now I do, and if the issue you have with this is that it involves transcluding templates, which is apparently looked down upon per Wikipedia policy, then I suggest substitution. That will integrate the code of the template into the page, but it’ll leave the template, so if we ever need to make changes, we can edit the master template and then re-substitute. Of course, if your objection is that it doesn’t look good, then that’s obviously a matter of personal preference, so we’d have to get a consensus from other users; the opinions of only you and me shouldn’t decide the fate of this situation. Personally, I can’t think of a more “orthodox” manner in which to integrate this information, but perhaps another user will come up with something. —BrOnXbOmBr21 • talk • contribs • 06:28, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I checked up on it too, after I made my post, and you are correct. Nevertheless, the implications are significant, and not something that I feel should be treated lightly. As for substitution, I looked into it, and I wasn't able to get straight substitution to work for this specific template. I'll try some more later. As a single-purpose template, it doesn't actually have much of a purpose without transclusion, as there would be no need to edit and substitute the template, as the code could just be changed directly in the article. Dancter 08:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

SCOP3: A Rough Guide to Scientific Computing On the PlayStation 3
Editprotected Innovative Computing Laboratory, a group led by Jack Dongarra, in the Computer Science Department at the University of Tennessee, has just released SCOP3: A Rough Guide to Scientific Computing On the PlayStation 3, a practical guide to building PlayStation 3 clusters for parallel numerical computing.


 * This page is semiprotected; any username more than a few days old can edit it. There is no need for administrator assistance to edit this page. CMummert · talk 00:45, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

The little motion censor thingy...
Hey, I was woundering, At E3'06 sony had like a little wii like motion censor on it, the thing is, that guy looked really unhappy playing that. So did they keep that in the final product, or did they drop it. 'Cause when I skimmed through the article I didn't see anything about that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.81.117.91 (talk) 00:02, 12 April 2007 (UTC).


 * Most people say it's tilt sensitive, but it's not, it's been said by IGN and PSM that it sences XYZ,yaw, pitch, something else.... and thats why it's called the six axis, it sences six different axises. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BobtheVila (talk • contribs) 20:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, it is motion sensitive... A great example of this is the yet to be released game Lair, in which you can control the dragon by tilting the controller. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.43.45.149 (talk • contribs) 19:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * erm, XYZ means yaw, pitch and roll. In my experiences I've seen it be able to sense left and right tilting, forward and backward tilting and a sharp vertical motion. (Try playing Super Rub a Dub) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mr toasty (talk • contribs) 20:51, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * XYZ does not necessarily mean specifically yaw, pitch, and roll. I think BobtheVila was specifically referring to left-right, forward-backward, and up-down motions by term. Yaw, pitch, and roll refer to rotations. They all make up the six axes referenced through the name Sixaxis. Dancter 21:13, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

80(or +more) GB HDD now confirmed!
To compete with the Xbox Elite Sony is reportedly going to release a 80 Gb model, though i dont think its matters much since your can swap your hard drive. Uber555 00:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Whilst Sony may indeed release a PS3 witha bigger HDD, it does not do this to compete with the Elite, the 60GB is already superior to the elite.  The fact you can fit your own bigger hard disk in your PS3 without voiding the warrenty further extends this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mgillespie (talk • contribs) 07:04, 17 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Where did you hear that?Chavmusiksux 16:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Google it, but Sony has dismissed it but not entirly declined it. one site here http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/03/30/sony_hints_at_80gb_ps3/ Sony has no comment on it, but said they arnt working on it. Uber555 21:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

All Sony is doing is increasing the HDD capacity of their premium model slighty (I say slighty because I have a 300GB PS3 through Bigger HardDrive and USB Mass Storage) the same time improving the Bluetooth module in it. However, as Sony has dismissed the claims, it shall be put into the article when PS3s' with 80GB HDD Capacity are released. General Fris&#39; Kahn 05:43, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Sony FINALLY confirmed that they are going to increase the hard drive, after deny the rumors. Likely in response to the Xbox Elite package Pumapayam 21:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * That doesn't look like a confirmation of a higher-capacity model to me, nor that it is considered a capacity increase of the premium model. There is no direct quote, and the Bloomberg statement in question is worded strangely, such that the possibility of mistakenly using "the" rather than "a", which changes the implied meaning significantly, is not out of the question. Just as the Elite is a new tier, the higher-capacity model may likewise be positioned a simply another option, rather than an upgrade or replacement. The key word is "considering". Dancter 22:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Sony is likely to release 120GB+ model so that xbox 360 elite doesn't have anything up on them. I suspect the 60gb model will drop in price and the 120+gb model will cost the same as the 60gb. Daniel.Cardenas 00:59, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * If they release anything, it will be an 80 GB PlayStation 3. But Sony knows that you can swap out the HDD, so that is why I heard that the 80 GB will also have a special thing on it, but I don't know what. The 80 GB PlayStation is now a prototype. It hasn't been announced yet. Sony patented the prototype and are experimenting with it. If they do release it, it won't be for a while. Last year, Microsoft said that they were experimenting with a new 120 GB Xbox 360 called the Zypher, but they said they would never release it. Sure enough, they did. I hope this happens with the PlayStation 3. -- TheN1Armyguy. 03:59, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

South Korea is to get new 80GB Console first on the 6/16/07 http://au.ps3.ign.com/articles/790/790227p1.html South Koria is also paying $19 ( in USD) less than what the 60 GB cost which is further evidance of a price drop comming or atleast sony selling the 80 gb world wide

-

The PS3 80GB also got the IPtv feature. wrv451nlp i lost my password -_-

Backwards compatibility in Europe
The Backwards compatibility section needs to be updated to reflect the fact that PS2 and PS1 hardware were removed from the PS3 for the European launch. The European PS3s rely on software emulation and thus emulate a far lower number of previous titles. Mouse Nightshirt 20:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Done. – ARC GrittTALK 20:47, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Is it also worth noting under the European & Australian version header that of the 1,782 compatible games only 1,276 are unique titles or that with the release of v1.70 259 new titles have been added, 234 have been upgraded; but 103 have been downgraded and 101 removed? FlipC 11:07, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

PS3 Goat Slaughter Event
The repellent nature of this article is so incredible, and this even is literally exploding all over the interwebs at the moment, i believe mention should be included in the reception section.

Just incredible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wageslave (talk • contribs) 03:24, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps this a mention can be proposed for inclusion in the God of War II article, or Sony Computer Entertainment, but this doesn't seem to have anything to do with the PS3. Dancter 03:36, 30 April 2007 (UTC) Never mind. I see the connection now.  Dancter 03:50, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * This is total Xbot nonsense. It's got nothing to do with PS3 at all, and certainly doesn't belong here.  Gods Of War II is a PS2 Game!!!  Idiot... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mgillespie (talk • contribs) 12:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

Games section: does this stuff belong there?
Recently, Xenoslayer made some major edits to the Games section of the article, and while I don’t mean to single him/her out, I feel that the changes were not entirely useful. I’ve “fixed” a number of them, but I wanted to get a consensus from Wikipedians familiar with this article. Xenoslayer added a bunch of text to the first paragraph, and I’ve copied and pasted it below (here’s a link to the diff if you’re interested in digging deeper): "However, the console was criticized for offering such a limited number of top games, both at launch and in the following months. Also, despite the High Definition operability that the console offered, only NBA 07 displayed full 1080p resolution at launch. Several planned launch titles were delayed until 2007, such as The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, F.E.A.R., and Sonic the Hedgehog. The European released of the Playstation 3 in March saw seven extra titles added to the line-up, including Formula One Championship Edition, MotorStorm and Virtua Fighter 5. Because of the broader games selection this time round, the European launch was hailed as much more of a success." I won’t focus on the very minor aesthetic issues here (they’re pet peeves for me, but I’ll restrain myself); instead, I was wondering what we should do with this block of text. In my opinion, there are two major problems with it: (1) it doesn’t have an NPOV and contains no references; and (2) I’m not quite sure that the text — at least the parts that mention specific games — should be in the Games section. I was thinking that, if anything, it could go in the Publicity and reception section of the article. Thoughts? —BrOnXbOmBr21 05:20, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It has no references, so I personally wouldn't include it. Mouse Nightshirt 00:38, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Mouse Nightshirt (Sorry, that sounds so weird...)___J.delanoy 15:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Dimensions
What are the dimensions for the PS3? - Thai H. Nguyen 21:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * According to the PlayStation Website, the PS3 is approximately 325 mm. (12.79 in.) wide x 98 mm. (3.86 in.) height x 274 mm. (10.79 in.)deep (it is not a perfect rectangular solid. The top is an arch). It weighs around 5 kg. (11.02 lbs.) Hope that helps___J.delanoy 23:56, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Firmware notes
Quote: rumble functionality for PS2 controllers when playing PS2 game. Now I don't understand that. You can't hook up PS2 controllers to the PS3. And the Accessories page mentions nothing about an adapter to do so. --Zeno McDohl (talk) 02:02, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I was wondering about that too and then i remembered that there are several adapters that accpet the ps2 controller and attach to usb as well as some ps2/pc racing wheels used usb for its connection —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bushido Brown (talk • contribs).
 * I don't see anything like that listed in the Accessories page, like I said. --Zeno McDohl (talk) 18:43, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The Accessories page only lists accessories sold by sony. There are tons of third parts accessories that are compatible.  PS/PS2 controler to USB adapters have been around for many years.The Goat 14:17, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Update version 1.70
I read about the update 1.70 for the PlayStation 3:

"Added the ability to play PSOne games downloaded from the PlayStation Store, as well as adding rumble functionality for PS2 controllers when playing PS2 games. Saved data from PlayStation format software can now be used on both PSP and PS3 systems."

I'm questioning the statement that the vibration functionality has been added for the use of PlayStation 2 controllers. Looking at the fact that the only way the PlayStation 3 can use a PlayStation 2 controller is through a third party adaptor, I don't think Sony would add an update for a third party product. I'm not saying this is true, but somewhere I read that this might be because Sony is developing a vibration SIXAXIS controller, because Immersion Co. apologized to Sony after sueing them for having vibration in their first SIXAXIS controller, and stated before launch that Sony may develop a vibration SIXAXIS controller. Also, Immersion is losing a lot of possible royalties to a new SIXAXIS controller that doesn't exist, so its logical that they could be cheering on or even helping Sony for this new controller. The only other thing that vibration could be used for is a new SIXAXIS vibration controller. I'd like to hear some comments. --TheN1Armyguy. 19:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Please look up a few comments, I just mentioned this entire thing. --Zeno McDohl (talk) 22:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but I know that Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo would not make a firmware update for a third party item, it doesn't make any sense. I'm thinking that there is a SIXAXIS vibration controller coming out. -- TheN1Armyguy. 20:17, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Firmware 2.00
New update. http://www.psu.com/node/10962 It has not appeared on jp.playstation.com yet, but it's also on Official PS forum.--w_tanoto 13:09, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * This update has not been confirmed by Sony anywhere, it could be incorrect. I think references to the rumoured 2.00 should be removed for the time being. Viamp 14:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree completely. It may well be true but it's nowhere near official enough to be stated as fact yet. Vash63 14:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok I've reverted it back to 1.70, maybe Sony will officialy confirm at Gamers Day later if this is true. Viamp 15:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, did not read the article properly. I thought it was released already, but as usual, it's a bit late on website. I haven't actually try to check update from my ps3 yet. Thanks for reverting. just about to do it myself.--w_tanoto 10:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

PS3 Fights Cancer
Anyway to incorporate [| this] into the main article? --Ozgod 21:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

you should incorpurate this into the artical, it IS true so why not?

Lead
The lead needs expansion, I'm sure you guys are aware of this. Aaron Bowen 17:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Sony loses 2 billion dollars from ps3
Do you guys think that this is worth mentioning? (for more sources just use google)


 * Only if the 360 article mentions that the Xbox divison has lost well over $4 Billion... this link from last year  You can add onother 1 billion onto that that, as the 4 billion figure is over a year old.  The 360 is not due to make a profit until next year (but Microsoft say that every year).


 * Wilst 2 billion sounds alot, the PS2 is still making money for Sony, as has been making money for some years, the original Playstation made money for Sony after a couple of years.. The fact is, no Microsoft console has ever made a single cent in profit for Microsoft todate..


 * .. ya Microsoft loses alot of money for xbox cause they don't get solid. Sony hasn't lost 2 billion around 250 milish. that probadly won't hurt them they made almost 5 billion off the ps2 and around a billion on the PS1. Hope they make a ps3 with like 10 gig(i know that's small), to bring the price down to around ummm 350? if it then PS3 gonna sell like hotcakes..

Manufacturer
Both ASUS and Foxconn are taiwanese companies. But my PS3 is a Japanese version, with "made in Japan" stated on the label, so it is unlikely to be manufactured by them. I believe most of PS3 are made in China (which might actually refer to taiwan), but I don't know the manufacturer for "Made in Japan" machines. Maybe SCEI themselves?--w_tanoto 14:03, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Citations Needed
I was just reading the section about the PlayStation Network and I noticed that the last 3 paragraphs (detailing the PSN "gift cards" to be sold in Japan) have no citations at all. If someone could find some, I'd appreciate it. 69.205.185.158 22:13, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

PS3 WILL have rumble
http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200705/N07.0518.1518.01359.htm?Page=2 it says GoW (God of War) will have rumble so that sort of confirms the PS3 will have rumble... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.225.248.82 (talk • contribs).

Date dispute
Please could another editor mediate this minor dispute regarding the date which this reference states. User:Beta believes that the date should be listed as simply "March". I believe that the date should be listed as "April 1" or "March 31", as this gives greater accuracy to the reference. Please could anyone provide feedback on this discussion. Thanks. – ARC Gritt TALK 13:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not really that bothered about the date, the sales figure is more important, someone keeps changing it from 3.6 million (official sony figure) to 3 million.

The article does state that "Sony today revealed that through the fiscal year ended March 31, the company shipped about 5.5 million PlayStation 3 units and sold around 3.6 million of those."

The article was written on 5/16/2007 but the data (the latest official sales data) is from the fiscal year ended March 31. What is the wikipedia standard on these issues? Should the date of the sales figure or the date of the article be used.

I think that the article should be cited as being written on 5/16/2007 but the sales data should be shown as being from 3/31/2007

Beta
 * I believe the text "3.6 million+ as of April 1, 2007 " should be read as "3.6 million units sold in the time up until April 1, 2007. Cheers – ARC Gritt TALK 14:39, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Quick grammar correction under the 'Release Date' title:
"The PS3 was launched in Europe, <...> the first 100 customers waiting in line at Virgin Megastores on Oxford Street in London in the U.K. recieved a free 40' Bravia HD ready LCD television and a taxi ride home <...> .[citation needed]"

The bold area should read 40ˈˈ Bravia, unless they really did give out 40-foot screens, which would have been a pretty sweet deal.

P.S. I seem to have hijacked another title, sorry it's my first edit.

Firmware 1.80
Sony has announced a new firmware for the PlayStation 3, including upscaling to 1080p for DVD's, PS and PS2 games. Also network streaming from DLNA compatible devices. To be released tomorrow (24th May). Viamp 16:44, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw it. I can't believe that somebody lied to me on firmware 2.00 with all its interesting features.--w_tanoto 17:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * it's out in japan, and the download is now available. http://www.jp.playstation.com/ps3/update/#pcud --w_tanoto 06:42, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

There are news that one of the PS3 forum, Leah on PS3 website claim was hack by hackers. The 2.00 is NOT true.-Leong

Move of part about the launch
I'm wondering if it is appropriate to move some part of this article into PlayStation 3 launch. I spent some time today to make it looks better. This article is getting long, and it took me some time to load this page.--w_tanoto 21:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * If you can fin a good place to take something out of the main article, just do it, and make sure you write in the edit summery where you put it.___J.delanoy 23:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll try to do that when I got the time--w_tanoto 07:31, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I have already made a post about this here. Cheers – ARC Gritt TALK 23:50, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

PS3 with 1.5 million users worldwide?
I read one of the forums that PS3 have 1.5 million online registred users worldwide. Is it true?-Leong


 * Yes it is true. http://gameinformer.com/News/Story/200705/N07.0517.0212.56328.htm?Page=4 --Dark-Devil

Is there a keyboard for PS3??
It could be important information, especially if the product can run on Linux.
 * you can use any usb-based keyboard--w_tanoto 20:09, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Or Bluetooth. JACO  PLANE  &bull; 2007-05-25 20:35
 * An PS/2 keyboard with usb adaptor also works. --Ciao 90 17:08, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Manufacturing
i believe this is a nice source regarding Foxconn / Asus manufacturing

Aside from Foxconn and Asus... of course Sony does also manufacture PS3's, right?

also, i believe RSX is manufactured Sony Group's Nagasaki Fab2 as well as Oita TS Semiconductor Corp / OTSS (a joint fabrication facility of Toshiba and Sony) while Cell processors are manufactured at IBM's 300-mm wafer fabrication facility, followed by Sony Group's Nagasaki Fab2...

Magasin 09:22, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe yes..... sony do manufacture Ps3 themselves. if not, why mine (JPN version) is made in japan, while both mentioned manufacturers are based in taiwan--w_tanoto 09:28, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

alright then, maybe we could edit the info on the main page? as others might think that all PS3s are manufactured by foxconn and asustek. :) Magasin 18:00, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Canada's Price
Canada's MSRP for the PS3 is $659 CAD, not $699 CAD. It's just that most retailers chose to increase their price by $40 CAD after the Canadian dollar spiked. But now, it has sky rocketed and they still haven't decreased the price. There still are retailers like EB Games that sell it at $659 CAD. Mbslrm 16:01, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

???
Will it play any NTSC games for PS2.--Roxas 22:24, 28 May 2007 (UTC)???
 * Yes, and 1.80 firmware you can upscalle PS2 games do 1080p resolution. --Ciao 90 14:37, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I thout this PS3 was a myth, it's not? Anubiz 12:22, 30 May 2007 (UTC)