Talk:Pleurants

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Copied from User talk:Carolus. 15:53, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi, there is a perfectly good English term for this - Weepers. I propose to expand the article and move it there. I will probably put it up for WP:DYK. Johnbod (talk) 14:33, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * This is wrong, art historian know like Gisant, Pleurants the only term is the french one, never heard or seen such an riddiculous translation.--Carolus (talk) 17:37, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, I can believe that! But here for example is the Rijksmuseum. Or try the Timmuns book at the article. Given your limited command of English, I am not surprised that you have not encountered it. Johnbod (talk) 17:53, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok if you can find 3 sources for your theory, we can see. --Carolus (talk) 19:47, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * As a native Dutch speaker, I am more familiar with the term pleurant (and gisant, adorant etc.), but weepers is correct. See the Getty art and Architecture thesaurus Mduvekot (talk) 19:58, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Ans were can i read that Pleurant is wrong? --Carolus (talk) 20:17, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * You're shifting the burden of disproof to others. The OED, which I consider authoritative, does not have an entry for pleurant. It does however have an entry for weeper, and cites: "1790 T. Pennant Of London 64  The sides [of the tombs] are..embellished..with figures of mourners, pleureurs, or weepers, frequently in monastic habits." Of course, that only establishes that weeper/pleureur is in use and makes no mention of pleurant. We've given you three sources, and now a fourth. Pleurant is a French loanword. Since this is English Wikipedia, English is preferred. Mduvekot (talk) 22:38, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Then you can start an discussion, and see what the others think, i do not agree.--Carolus (talk) 22:41, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Mduvekot. In fact this cites a contract from 1452 using "weepers" - I'll be adding it to the article.  "Pleurant" is certainly sometimes used in English when discussing French examples, mostly by Americans, and in half-translated French material. No one is saying it is "wrong", but it is not the primary word in English.  Stone, Lawrence, Sculpture in Britain: The Middle Ages, 1972 (2nd edn.), Penguin Books (now Yale History of Art), has extensive coverage, and uses "weepers" for English and French examples, as the Rijksmuseum does. Johnbod (talk) 05:42, 8 March 2017 (UTC)