Talk:Plot Synopsis of 8-Bit Theater

I honestly appreciate the effort put in this, but, y'know, couldn't people just as well read the comic? It's basically more a scene-by-scene retelling than a synopsis, to say nothing of the length and the fact that it's a really massive, eye-tiring block of text.

What would be really cool to have is a short synopsis, possibly mentioning some of the differences between game and comic - though not all of them - in the main article on 8BT which is sorely lacking in content. This, I don't know. --R. Wolff 19:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Wolff. Delete this, and write a short synopsis containing the most important events per arc (rather than every single joke, as is the case here) on the main article. Anybody want to nominate this? I'd do so myself but:

1) I'd rather make sure that there's a general consensus before I do anything, and

2) I... don't know how to nominate things for deletion, anyways...

--64.175.36.108 00:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)--


 * I'd really like for Cat's Tuxedo, who more or less wrote this on his own, to give his input, but he's not replying here or on his talk page. --R. Wolff 04:59, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't really think this article should be delorted, to tell you the truth. It just seems too important for that, considering the webcomic's popularity. Cat&#39;s Tuxedo 00:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * 8BT is extremely popular, yes, but that doesn't make anything that relates to it noteworthy. As far as I'm concerned, if you want to describe the plot in detail, knock yourself out, but this is in no way an encyclopedia article. --R. Wolff 13:42, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps this should be abridged and merged into the main article? Bisected8 10:27, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Good idea, but I think at this point we'd have to abridge it to the point where we might as well write a short synopsis from scratch. Matter of fact, I started, but it's not done yet... >_> --R. Wolff 20:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

The content of the article
It hasn't been updated for quite a while. Perhaps someone should do so? Bisected8 11:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I've added the last few parts so its up to date now. Someone lese can add tommorow's strip though.

Trimming
I'll be doing some heavy trimming and editing on this article. In its current form, it's a big mess. Look at other "plot synopsis" articles - they don't retell every single episode in detail. Expect this article to be heavily reduced. --R. Wolff 11:39, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

THAT TOOK CONSIDERABLY LONGER THAN EXPECTED. Phew. I'm not going to edit the Kraken storyarc until it's over, I'd only have to do it again and again with every new episode. --R. Wolff 16:05, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I trimmed it after all. See below at "Regarding current storyarcs." --R. Wolff 16:26, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Photo request
What kind of photos could we include here? Panels from the comic? That would make the article completely obsolete. It's like illustrating the plot synopsis of a book with pages from that book.

EDIT: Okay, that was a bit harsh. Sorry. This article would only profit from pictures of the most iconic moments - character deaths, Red Mage casting Hadoken, things like that. One per storyarc? --R. Wolff 16:04, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that's kinda what I was aiming for with that request. I was planning for only the most crucial moments to be included in the article, like in the Batman Returns page.

Perhaps a final list of moments should be decided on before going any further?-Bisected8 11:04, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Definitely. Let's see - Black Mage as the king of Hell, Black Belt's death, the Light Warriors meeting Bahamut or getting their class change, or something else from that arc (which is full of interesting moments), that's what I'd include. I'd also include one of the Light Warriors' first appearance as a group, only that would have to be Black Mage furiously chasing them around with a knife. Then again, that is pretty iconic. :p --R. Wolff 16:33, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Some ideas which come to mind (IMO): Fighter attacking with his swords, BMs Hadoken, Law ninjas attacking, RM casting Ice, Fighter saying "I like swords", "Your HP or your GP", Theif following BM and fighter in a bush, Fighters "Medoken". - Bisected8 15:14, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I haven't read the article quite through but I'd suggest that a picture of all four real light warriors be included too.. Zalethon 22:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hold on, that's a bit too much. The Hadoken is an iconic moment. "I like swords," well, okay. The rest, frankly, strike me as picture versions of retelling a single episode or joke. The real light warriors aren't even mentioned in the article anymore. I'd include the first ever Hadoken (possibly with the X-Men quote), the first ever group shot of the protagonists, the group meeting Sarda, Black Mage as king of Hell and Black Belt's death. Possibly something from the class change as well. --R. Wolff 16:53, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Well as I said they were just ideas. - Bisected8 16:30, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, the crucial moments in the story I'm picturing in my head are: 'Black Mage casts his first Hadoken', 'The Light Warriors are formed', 'Black Mage kills Astos', 'Lich kills Black Mage', 'The Light Warriors meet Sarda', 'Kary kills Black Belt', 'The Light Warriors meet the Cultists', 'Red Mage casts his first Hadoken', and (possibly) 'Kraken kills Red Mage'. Cat&#39;s Tuxedo 11:32, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, let's see. The ones that came up most (comparatively speaking) are: a Light Warrior group shot, the first Hadoken, Black Mage dying or as king of Hell, Black Belt's death and the group meeting Sarda. Five pictures, six if we include something from the class change as well. If you ask me, that's already just barely within limits, but why not try and see how it looks first. If it turns out to be too image-heavy, we can still drop one or two. --R. Wolff 18:40, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Regarding currently running storyarcs
I don't think it's necessary to give details on every single new episode as soon as it comes out. Please limit accounts of such episodes to only the major plot points. For example, the paragraph about the cultists and Kraken/Ur can probably remain the way it is now for a few days, at least until Red Mage or Kraken die. --R. Wolff 16:30, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Idea for reworking the article
I've got an idea. How about we do a short writeup on the story of the game, and then use the synopsis we have here to show what's different in the comic? Not in detail, of course, just generally noting that, for example, Matoya blackmails the heroes into helping her.

I got the idea from the warning box, where it says "ensure the emphasis of the article is on discussing the work itself rather than a reiteration of the plot"... actually, I thought there was to be no original research, but whatever. --R. Wolff 16:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps, conveniently I've been playing it for the last few days (I just beat the water fiend in case you were wondering). But wouldn't this come under original research? - Bisected8 10:36, 14 October 2006 (UTC)


 * That's what I was thinking, but I suppose that infobox is official policy on what's wanted. Plus it probably isn't research at all if we just state the facts about both plots. I.e. we say in the game synopsis "The heroes help the witch Matoya get her crystal eye back" and point out in the comic synopsis that she blackmails them. --R. Wolff 16:17, 14 October 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, do you want to turn the article into a comparison, create a separate article or what? -Bisected8 21:01, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't say turn it into a comparison completely, but definitely introduce elements of comparison. --R. Wolff 15:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * What about just adding a paragraph or two in italics below each chapter?-Bisected8 20:46, 20 October 2006 (UTC) I just did this for the first few chapters as a test - Bisected8 21:12, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that works. I'll implement a variation of it where the game plot comes first - seeing as it's the base - and trim the text further as I go. --R. Wolff 14:23, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I've added the games plot for the Orb of Fire and Class change arcs. I missed the ice cavern arc as I don't recall this section appearing in the game (I played the GBA version of FF). The list of character class changes I put in the class change arc can be removed if necessary. - Bisected8 19:06, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know which version you played, but FFI + II: Dawn of Souls have the Ice Cavern, and its vital in the plot because that's where you get the Levistone so you could get the airship. 75.0.177.250 01:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thats the ice cavern? Where was the ice? - Bisected8 15:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Wierd... Seeing that most of the monsters there are weak to fire, is blue in color, and the walls are mostly blue crystals would tip off that there are ice there? Perhaps you're thinking of a different area? 75.0.187.150 03:35, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I was talking about the lack of any ice or snow around the entrance. - Bisected8 11:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Deletion
The creator of the comic has wished to request this article to be deleted as it may lose viewers as mentioned here http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=16420 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Linknumbers (talk • contribs) 04:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC). Linknumbers 04:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)linknumbers
 * That's not what that thread says at all, and Mr. Clevinger hasn't even posted in it or commented in any way. What? --R. Wolff 09:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Meh. I bet it's just some troll against the perfection of Wikipedia. Just ignore him, whoever he is. Cat&#39;s Tuxedo 13:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Now now, "assume good faith," remember? (Bugger, can't remember the link.) I just wanted to avoid any confusion. --R. Wolff 17:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Merger Proposal
I think that this article is gratuitous and unnecessary. It is simply far longer than it needs to be. Very few articles about any media on Wikipedia that I've seen have a synopsis that's this long and detailed, and I just don't see the reasons for having it. If someone wanted to find out the plot of the comic, they could just read it. Besides, the main page is almost devoid of actual content at this point, and putting a much shorter synopsis there would be more than sufficient. (Yes I noticed that this was already discussed at the top of the page, but seeing as no one seems to have done anything about it yet I went ahead and nominated it.) --DarthVader1219 18:22, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I completely agree and will be happy to help in editing the thing down. Hell, it would probably do to say "the plot is based on Final Fantasy, but with its own twists (giving one or two examples)" and add something about the Swordopolis/Dark God subplot Mr. Clevinger added. --R. Wolff 19:47, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * As I stated as an anon in the headingless topic at the top of the page:

"I agree with Wolff. Delete this, and write a short synopsis containing the most important events per arc (rather than every single joke, as is the case here) on the main article."

You Can&#39;t See Me! 23:33, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps something like Final_Fantasy_V? (I use that as an example since, like FF1/8BT, the story focuses on four elemental crystals/orbs, plus extra subplots, much like 8BT.) --Jopasopa 17:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that's still a little more than we need. I don't think this needs to be a play by play of the entire plot at all. I think it should just be a short synopsis that's similar to what R. Wolff suggested, just stating that the plot loosely follows the FF1 story line while pointing out the kind of plot twists and alterations that Bryan tends to make, and something about the subplot involving the various gods. Of course, something like what you linked to would be much better than what we have now. In any case, I believe we're supposed to wait a while after a merger is proposed before really doing anything to be sure that everyone has their say, but I'll probably get to work on it over the coming weekend. If anyone wants to start anything before I get around to it, be my guest. --DarthVader1219 00:08, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * 8-Bit Theater's plot arcs are mostly such that you can describe them in detail or not at all. Anyway, how about this:


 * "The plot of 8-Bit Theater is based on that of the video game Final Fantasy. Four adventurers, the Light Warriors, must save the world by relighting four magical orbs that are tied to the four elements and, finally, defeat the personification of evil, Chaos. However, while many of the original plot points and characters are retained, the way they come about is often radically different. The Light Warriors themselves are self-centered and often overly violent, tending to cause more harm than good on their travels, and mostly have to be blackmailed or threatened into accepting quests.


 * Clevinger also introduces an original storyarc involving a rivalry between gods and their respective proteges, two of the Light Warriors. He has also stated (source goes here) that the comic will not feature the element of time travel that the game featured towards the end of the story."


 * --R. Wolff 17:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I think you're right about that. Anyway, I think that what you wrote is very good, and just about the length I was thinking.
 * --DarthVader1219 05:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * No matter what happens to this article, I think that needs to be put on the main article. Just seeing the link to this article just seems kinda strange... --Jopasopa 03:30, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I've added it to the main article. Michael Slone (talk) 04:31, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Excellent, thanks. Now what about this article? I'm for doing the merge. Honestly, the plot isn't relevant to anything but the comic itself, and anyone can get a grasp of it by, well, reading it (which incidentally is a lot more fun than reading the synopsis on Wikipedia). --R. Wolff 14:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Deletion
I just put this article up for a deletion discussion. My argument is the same DarthVader already made under "Merger Proposal": "I think that this article is gratuitous and unnecessary. It is simply far longer than it needs to be. Very few articles about any media on Wikipedia that I've seen have a synopsis that's this long and detailed, and I just don't see the reasons for having it. If someone wanted to find out the plot of the comic, they could just read it." --R. Wolff 10:07, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Complete deletion really necessary?
Probably a bit late to weigh in, but I really like this article, it's an interesting read, even if it is lengthy. And it's not like other comics on wikipedia don't have extremely detailed explanations of the plots, just look at Plot of Naruto for example.

Why not just have the shortened synopsis on the main page like it is now, then have a link to this one in it? Lord Seth 18:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)