Talk:Plot device/Archive 1

Deus Ex Machina
Pretty sure the definition of Deus Ex Machina is incorrect. The article calls it a 'strange' or 'unusual' resolution, but I believe it's more commonly associated with an unlikely, improbable resolution (i.e. God arriving on Earth and saving the day). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.160.136 (talk) 10:34, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

How about the following under Plot device?

 * Evil characters are now Good and Good Character are now evil switch. Hero either goes into alterantive universe by accident such as in Star Trek "Mirror, Mirror" or goes back in time and changes the past as in epsiode of "Danny Phantom". In either case "Good" Characters are now "Evil" and "Evil Characters are now "Good".
 * There seems to be a de facto collection location for these at Mirror Universe (Star Trek). Kineticman 17:19, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Evil gang aginst Hero. Various Evil Villinas having been defeated by hero, gang up against hero and put him/her in deadly peril. Despite this, hero escapes and deposes Evil Villians

These are literary cliches, not plot devices. They are the plot, they don't advance it. 199.71.183.2 (talk) 21:52, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Sexual tension
I removed 'sexual tension' as a plot device, because it usually isn't one (it doesn't drive the plot, or if it does then it's the point of the plot, not a device). Can whoever added it come up with some examples of sexual tension being used as a plot device? 199.71.183.2 (talk) 20:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposed merge
I would like to see this article merged with MacGuffin. The two concepts are so similar as to be indistinguishable. In fact from the definitions in the articles I can't see a difference at all. Any objections? DJ Clayworth (talk) 21:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Not a cliche
Just to be clear a plot device is not a narrative cliche - or rather all narrative cliches are not plot devices. A plot device is an object whose nature is unimportant and whose sole purpose is to advance the plot. All the other narrative cliches are just that - not plot devices.

The sacrifice of Harry Potter's parents, for example, is not a plot device. Yes, it allows the story to move ahead (well, to begin actually) but it serves so much more than that. Love and sacrifice become significant themes in the book, and the difference between the Potters giving up their lives for others and Voldemort doing anything not to give up his own life is central to the books. Now if Harry Potter had been saved by a passing superwizard who was never seen again, THAT would be a plot device! DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Music a plot device?
Examples in plays. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Untermenschen (talk • contribs) 18:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Proposing merge
Plot coupon appears to be a definition of a plot device based entirely around one specific critics review. I would suggest merging it into this ariticle as a type of device, if it hasn't already been included in another form already. -- TRTX T / C 19:31, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

No objection. DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:52, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Peripeteia
As far as I can tell Peripeteia isn't actually a plot device. Plot devices are things that advance the plot without other significance or internal logic. Peripeteia may or may not be consistent and otherwise significant (as can any action in a narrative) and so shouldn't be included here. DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:52, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Proposed merger from Literary technique
Both this article and Literary technique describe and list devices or techniques used to advance story lines. Can they be merged? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:31, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It occurs to me that the problem might be that the Literary technique article has been populated with things that are plot elements, Alien space bats and so on. But it seems to me that there are bona fide literary devices/techniques such as Metaphor. So perhaps the solution might be to lift all the plot elements out of Literary techniques, leaving us with a very different article and much shorter list? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:27, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Absolutely and definitely under no circumstances do this merge. The reason is simple: these are actually two different things.


 * Literary techniques cover all sorts of stuff: flashbacks, first person narrative, framing story, foreshadowing. A plot device is an object (usually an actual physical object) whose sole purpose is to advance the plot. The current definition in the article is wrong. (Actually I'm gong to fix it how, so it won't be by the time you read this).


 * Note that a plot device is different from a plot element. DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:41, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * As a sidenote I'm searching desperately for a good definition of plot device on the web. But Wikipedia has so corrupted Google space that every definition I have found (down to page 20) is a copy of this or a previous Wikipedia article. DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:59, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose: I think they are different things, but the current articles are poor and confuse the two. They need extensive rewriting, with reliable sources for the definitions of both terms. - Fayenatic (talk) 18:54, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm so glad to have both your input. Would a literary device fall under literary technique or plot device? Because I may have caused some problems a while back with this successful CFD. We can always recreate Category:Plot devices or just rename Category:Literary devices so as to better distinguish. And please note this related CFD. I think I'm on more solid ground here, but you tell me. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:07, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * In my mind literary techniques and literary devices are closely related, but not identical. I would rename the category to Literary techniques, which is the more general. Then we can let people add techniques such as flashback if they want. DJ Clayworth (talk) 00:55, 18 September 2009 (UTC)