Talk:Plug-in electric vehicle

Scope of the article
I created this article about PEVs with the objective of clarifying a term that was been used in Wiki articles sometimes as synonymous with battery electric vehicles and other times as synonymous with plug-in hybrids, when actually technically and legally (at least in the U.S.) both are different types of PEVs. Considering that now the U.S. has tax incentives in place for PEVs, I though it was about time to clarify this confusion.

Given the unavoidable overlap between PEVs, BEVs, and PHEVs, I suggest to include in this article ONLY content that is pertinent to both all-electric and plug-in hybrids. Please, do not repeat (particularly "cut and paste") content from the existing articles unless it really applies to both of the two main categories of PEVs.

Please comment on my proposal and feel free to provide suggestions below regarding desirable content for further expansion of this article. I am not aware of how PEVs are dealt with in other countries, particularly regarding government incentives, so please leave a word here pointing to such materials if there are different uses of the term PEV around the world.-Mariordo (talk) 04:24, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

PHEVs?!
Why does this article list current plug-in hybrids? They do have their own page!-- Pineapple Fez 08:23, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * By formal definition PEVs include both BEVs and PHEVs. For example, US and UK tax incentives or grants are defined for PEVs, and benefit both (as explained in the article). As explained above the intention is to deal with subjects common to both types of vehicles here and not to repeat all the content already in the articles on BEVs or on PHEVs. Government subsidies is one of those subjects, they also share several of the barriers for wider adoption. Please note that the article is still a work in progress (I do have more material, subsidies on other countries, etc, that I expect to work in June when I will have more time). Any suggestions are welcome--Mariordo (talk) 11:57, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * PS: Even though BEVs are also popularly called EVs, to avoid any confusion I changed EV for BEV in the entire article considering that electric vehicles (EVs) actually include several types of vehicles that do not plug-in to recharge the battery, such trains taking electricity from a third rail (like many metros) or from overhead lines. Also, a HEV is not a PEV despite their electric motor because they do not plug-in to recharge its battery from an external source and their all electric range is too short due to its small battery.-Mariordo (talk) 12:20, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks! -- Pineapple Fez 06:26, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Just cars?
This article only seems to cover cars, which would be understandable if the title was plug in electric cars, but it's not. Is there a reason that this article doesn't cover plug in electric motorcycles such as the ones from Brammo? Also, is there a reason for not including vehicles such as the Buddy (which is more mainstream that the BYD F3DM)? -- Pineapple Fez 00:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No there is not. As far as the vehicles were/are mass produced or are near mass production or field testing (that is the criteria in the existing list + highway capable --> NEVs not included), go ahead and include them on the list (to keep it organize I would create a separate category/box for motorcycles and other than light-duty vehicles). Check the refs for California subsidies, there are a couple of small trucks and a electric motorcycle listed (I supposed, already available in the market, I did not have time to check their availability and that is why I did not include them before). Nevertheless, we do not want to repeat the comprehensive lists already available for PHEVs, EVs and NEVs, nor include concept cars. The list is supposed to be a summary of the "mainstream" vehicles as you call them.-Mariordo (talk) 12:09, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * PS: I think it will be useful to define together (all editors interested) a uniform criteria for eligibility for PEVs to be included in the list while avoiding a long list of vehicles like the existing ones for each electric drive vehicle. Any ideas or suggestions?-Mariordo (talk) 02:24, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I've done the motorcycle section, but its not the greatest. I'll add more cars later and as for the uniform criteria for eligibility for PEVs, I think that it should be currently mass-produced or very likely to go into production soon (e.g. the Nissan Leaf and the Reva NXR). -- Pineapple Fez 07:34, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Proposal to split the article
A reviewer with experience with GA nominations, tagged the article as too long (it is actually 121.8Kb), so in order for the GA nomination to improve its changes of succeding I proposed to split the article in the following way:
 * 1. The entire "Tax incentives for PEVs by country" could be split to a new article called Tax incentives for plug-in electric vehicles, and just leave a one max two paragraph in this section here.
 * 2. The sections "Commercial plug-in electric cars" and "Commercial plug-in electric motorcycles" could become list articles, and we would keep here only the short section of the table showing the currently available cars and motorcycles.

Please share your ideas below.-Mariordo (talk) 02:01, 28 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Strong support. Essentially you are planning to use WP:Summary style. GA reviewers generally like to see good use of SS and I'm sure it will improve the readability and presentation of the article. Good work. Johnfos (talk) 02:18, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Support, I was actually thinking about this too over the past couple of days. I think we definitely should, but should also be very careful with the new list pages. I've seen many lists regarding EVs and most of them are pretty bad, with issues like listing vehicles that haven't even gone into production, listing wrong information and not listing enough vehicles and information. -- Pineapple Fez 04:26, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * There is consensus so I will begin the process of splitting the article (it might take several days).--Mariordo (talk) 22:58, 11 December 2010 (UTC)


 * See List of modern production plug-in electric vehicles (I will restore just a summary)-Mariordo (talk) 23:26, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I have removed the too long tag as split has been successfully done and article length has come down to 83k, which is fine. Article certainly looks like GA quality to me. Johnfos (talk) 03:18, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

External link to shrinkthatfootprint.com article
Hi Mariordo, I removed the external link to an article on shrinkthatfootprint.com because it appears to be a single-author blog, and the linked article is self-published on this blog. This fails [WP:ELNO ("Blogs, personal web pages and most fansites, except those written by a recognized authority."). The author doesn't seem to be a notable authority on the subject. You reverted my removal, asking if I bothered to read it. Yes, I did read it, but it is a synthesis with somewhat vague sourcing, so we need to be able to trust the author. Dcxf (talk) 00:49, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
 * This is not a blog and besides the study received coverage in Europe from reliable sources, see here and here. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain. Actually I plan to make a short summary of the results to include in the article using the Guardian and AVEM as RSs. After I do the summary, probably this weekend, I was planning to remove the link. As you can see the PEV article only has similar comprehensive results for the U.S., so this study provides a global perspective. Thanks again.--Mariordo (talk) 01:28, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it meets the criteria for a reliable source even less than it meets the criteria for an external link. It's self-published and there's no evidence of anyone in the "research group" apart from the author, who doesn't seem to have published anything else on the subject. A Guardian blog linking to it doesn't really constitute coverage. Dcxf (talk) 02:30, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Since you decided to go in the guessing territory, I am an expert on the subject, and the results are reasonable and followed the best knowledge and procedures in the field (I did read the entire paper), no wonder the Guardian published them. Furthermore, the Guardian is considered a reliable source in Wikipedia, this is not an editorial piece. Did you notice that the Guardian says Mr.Wilson is the "lead" author. And just in case, this study was covered by other reliable sources here, here and here. So, enough news outlets (reliable sources) took it seriously, I think your suspicions are not justified. I suggest we wait for other editors to jump in the discussion. I will go with the consensus.--Mariordo (talk) 02:44, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not really up to us as editors to judge whether the content of a source is accurate or not, that's what the RS guidelines are for. The Guardian's environment blog copy-and-pasting it is not the same as The Guardian publishing it. The words "lead author" are from the press release for the study, written by the same author. Anyone can set up a web site with a plausible-sounding organisation name, and blogs and the like will cut-and-paste from just about any press release. The question, as posed by WP:SPS, is "is the author an established expert on the subject matter?" Dcxf (talk) 03:52, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Plug-in electric vehicle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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Carsalesbase.com
There's a discussion of the source carsalesbase.com at Reliable sources/Noticeboard. —Dennis Bratland (talk) 00:37, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Good Article review
This article was only 4,100 words in 2011 when it was assessed as a Good Article. Now it has grown beyond 21,000 words, more than double the usual maximum size of an article. The current article is nothing like the original good article version, and it is currently far from meeting basic MOS guidelines. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 16:54, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. This is the third electric vehicle article I have come across that has become extremely long since becoming a Good Article. I see a few split templates above, but we are still looking at 87KB of readable prose. Maybe more splitting is neede or better summary style here. Who seems to be the major editor at these articles. AIRcorn (talk) 19:56, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

--- I also agree, I think I am done shortening the electric car page for now, but, do we even need this page? the electric car page is almost entirely about plug in electric cars, and just about every electric vehicle is plug in, anyways, yeah, this thing does need to be shortened LordLimaBean (talk) 23:31, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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Invitation to participate in a discussion
This is to invite regular editors of this page to participate in the ongoing discussion at the talk page of the electric car article regarding Wikipedia policy about pricing info included in several articles dealing with plug-in electric cars. You are welcome to express your view. Cheers.--Mariordo (talk) 13:50, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Electric cars
Is this REALLY all that different from the Electric car article? Plug in electrics are the standard type of electric vehicle, I have never requested a merger before, but, I assume we could remove this one, add a few sections from this onto that one, and then touch everything up, should we do something like that? LordLimaBean (talk) 00:12, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
 * As explained in the top of the talk page (and the definition provided in the article), I created this article about PEVs with the objective of clarifying a term that was been used in Wiki articles sometimes as synonymous with battery electric vehicles and other times as synonymous with plug-in hybrids, when actually technically and legally (at least in the U.S. and in most of the technical and academic literature) both are different types of plug-ins. PEV is a mother category that includes both types of plug-in vehicles (PEV = BEV + PHEV). Considering that the U.S. has tax incentives in place for PEVs, I though it was about time to clarify this confusion. Given the unavoidable overlap between PEVs, BEVs, and PHEVs, I suggest to include in this article ONLY content that is pertinent to both all-electric and plug-in hybrids. Also consider that nowadays, all main sources of stats and news provide figures of plug-in electric car sales, which add up both BEVs and PHEVs. I hope this clarifies your concerns. Cheers.--Mariordo (talk) 05:56, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I am not going to do it myself but one way to make this different from the Electric car article would be to add more info on vehicles which are not cars - for example extracts of Electric truck, Electric bus, Electric motorcycles and scooters, Electric bicycle etc with some kind of overview of the future of these kinds of vehicles linking to but not duplicating Phase-out of fossil fuel vehicles. For example analysis of the economics of electric cars compared to electric lorries - are electric lorries likely to follow the same adoption curve as electric cars and if not why not - can different types of vehicle share charging infrastructure - is there a maximum size limit to these kinds of vehicles and if so how is it estimated - how quickly will these vehicles replace ICE vehicles and what will be the effects? Chidgk1 (talk) 10:50, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:06, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Tesla 3.jpg

Is Uniti really relevant?
Uniti is a very small player on the EV market, been around since 2016 and have still not yet produced a road-worthy car. They are currently insolvent, have seven employees according to their annual report. Carbon footprint of other EV manufacturers could replace this section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:801:3F9:51EE:9524:1A6B:9F9:14AA (talk) 19:10, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You were absolutely right. I removed the content you pointed (non encyclopedic, lacks notability and read like spam. Cheers - Mariordo (talk) 22:55, 21 June 2020 (UTC)