Talk:Podgorica Assembly/GA1

GA Review
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Nominator: 20:03, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: ThaesOfereode (talk · contribs) 21:39, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi Great article you have here! I have a couple notes to get this to GA, but these should be relatively straightforward fixes (if a little numerous). ThaesOfereode (talk) 21:39, 23 June 2024 (UTC)


 * @ThaesOfereode Hi. I will not be able to respond before 3 July. I expect to address the issues quickly. hope that is fine 86.33.93.65 (talk) 05:42, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * to sign: Tomobe03 86.33.78.249 (talk) 05:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Not a problem. I will keep it on hold in the meantime. ThaesOfereode (talk) 11:03, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

There are some prose issues that need to be addressed:


 * Intro
 * → The committee convened the assembly with the aim of facilitating an unconditional union of Montenegro and Serbia and removing K ing Nikola I of Montenegro from the throne. The assembly was organized by a committee supported by and coordinating with the government of the Kingdom of Serbia. The unification was successful and preceded the establishment of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes as a unified state of South Slavs by mere days. – What the committee was for is far more important than who organized it, so that sentence needs to be further up.
 * The unification was justified by the need to establish a single Serbian state for all Serbs, including Montenegro whose population as well as its king felt that it belonged to the Serbian nation and largely supported the unification. – This issue occurs throughout the article and was frustrating even for me to follow: Which king? My first reading of this interpreted this as Montenegro's king, not Serbia's. Which confused me as to why the former would ever want to hand over his throne to Serbia. This needs to be crystal clear for an audience unfamiliar with the history and politics of interwar Serbia.
 * The manner in which the Podgorica Assembly was elected and its resolutions on unification and the removal of King Nikola from the throne were criticized as unlawful and illegitimate by the king, his government-in-exile situated in France at the time, and opponents of the unconditional union in the country known as the Greens. The Greens, earning that moniker after the color of paper used to print Podgorica Assembly candidate lists containing pro-independence candidates, supported either full independence of Montenegro or a federation or a confederation with Serbia and other South Slavs where Montenegro would be an equal partner. – Try: Nikola I criticized the Podgorica Assembly's elections and resolutions, arguing both were illegitimate and unlawful while his government was in exile in France. Opponents of the unconditional union, known as the Greens for the color of paper used for pro-independence candidates, supported supported either full independence of Montenegro or a federation or a confederation with Serbia and other South Slavs where Montenegro would be an equal partner.


 * Montenegrin independence and alliances
 * Ruled by King Nikola, – I believe convention here should dictate Nikola I rather than simply "King Nikola". Instances of alone are fine.
 * Montenegro was considered by the king – Which king?
 * The king firmly believed that Montenegro and the Kingdom of Serbia should unite, a view shared by a slim majority of the country's population. – Which king? Which country?
 * The prevailing sentiment in the country was that Montenegro should lead the unification. – Which country?
 * Contemporary writers Simo Matavulj and Marko Car – It is important that these writers be identified by their national origin in this context.
 * Following the Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand and the subsequent July Crisis and Austro-Hungarian declaration of war against Serbia → Following the a ssassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, the subsequent July Crisis, and the Austro-Hungarian declaration of war against Serbia
 * Minor quibble, for readability: In 1915, Montenegro sought support from the Russian Empire for its aspirations to expand along the Adriatic Sea and its hinterland between the Mat and Neretva rivers – encompassing Herzegovina, southern Dalmatia, and the city of Shkodër – but these efforts were unsuccessful.


 * Military defeat
 * including the Lovćen Mountain → including Lovćen or including Lovćen Mountain – here is ungrammatical, but the name of the mountain, if you're going to link it, pipe "Mountain" in as well for clarity's sake.
 * – I think in this context, Montenegrin forces were shielding the Royal Serbian Army is a more common phrasing within the context. Feel free to push back on this one, but I think it flows better.


 * Montenegrin Committee
 * In August 1916, Radović drafted a memorandum to the king – Which king? I know this is Nikola, but in a new section like this, it's better to err on the side of clarity when in doubt.
 * – I think endashes are better than parentheses here, but again, feel free to push back on this.
 * He then emerged as a prominent advocate for unification. – Who?
 * – Might be good to have the original Serbian name here too.


 * Adriatic Troops
 * Jovan Radović should be redlinked, unless this is him here: Jovan Radović
 * on October 30–31 → between 30–31 October
 * on November 4 → on 4 November
 * Milutinović ordered the disbanding of the insurgents on November 12. → Milutinović ordered the disbandment of the insurgents on 12 November. or, better yet, Milutinović ordered the insurgents to disband on 12 November.

This section needs to be rewritten to be more transparent about modern vs historical discourse. If this is an on-going debate between unionists and independentists within Montenegro, that needs to be made clear. If this is only a historical debate, that needs to be made clear and the sentences need to be in the past tense.
 * Rules
 * – links to the current constitution, which may be confusing to the uninformed reader.
 * – If this is referencing a historical assembly, it needs to be capitalized. If it isn't, "great" needs to be changed or removed.
 * – Link goes to current Serbian constitution.
 * – I think the term royalists might be a more wieldy term.


 * Voting
 * – Were there no significant independentists who advocated for no union with Serbia?
 * The election, held on November 19 → The election, held on 19 November
 * Notably, – Is there any reason why in your sources? Also, find a better term than Notably in accordance with MOS:OFCOURSE.


 * Assembly resolutions
 * Firstly → First – ibid for "secondly" and so on.
 * envisaged → stipulated – The term "envisaged" means more like "imagined".
 * – Clarify. Without having clicked on the link, it seems like this is a Queen Consort of the Karađorđević dynasty.
 * Serbian Orthodox – I think this is worth mentioning.


 * Unification
 * Montenegro's government-in-exile proposals were rejected by Serbia, backed by France. – Did France back Serbia or Montenegro's government-in-exile?
 * – This makes it sound like it was the territory that was renamed. Is that true?


 * Christmas Uprising
 * with the French giving Serbia a free hand – MOS:EUPH, just need to say with the French supporting Serbia here.

This decision led to accusations against Montenegrin communist leader Milovan Djilas, alleging that he "invented the Montenegrin nation," and resulted in a series of censuses where the majority (though not all) of the population of Montenegro declared themselves as Montenegrins. – This sentence is really confusing for me. Why was Djilas blamed? Why did the decision lead to the census declarations? Why did either lead to an invention of the Montenegrin nation?
 * Annulment of resolutions

I have applied changes needed to address the prose and MOS issues above. Could you please have a look at the changes?--Tomobe03 (talk) 08:48, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Changes look good! I made a few minor adjustments, I hope you don't mind. A second read-through revealed a few minor quibbles, so I just went in and snagged them rather than volley them off at you. Any other prose issues that could be found would not derail this from being a GA. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:52, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

As regards significant independists opposing any union at the time of the assembly, the sources do not seem to offer any, explicitly saying they favoured a conditional union instead. I'd be happy to include mention of such names, but I found none. There may be something I'm missing though.--Tomobe03 (talk) 08:48, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * This is a thorough investigation of the event; if there are no sources indicating a serious independentist movement then attempting to snuff one out would probably fail to give due weight. This is good as is. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:54, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

As regards the present vs historical debate, the source speaks of it in past tense, so I adjusted the prose accordingly and added clarification to point out that it concerns a historical discourse. Modern issues are addressed in the "Annulment" section anyway.--Tomobe03 (talk) 08:48, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * This article looks to be in good shape now; I'm promoting it to GA. Thank you for another excellent article on the history of the Balkans. I want to commend your exceptional skill in navigating the principal of neutrality writing on a topic this fraught. I hope to see more of your good work in the future. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:00, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Source spot check
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Pavlović 2008, p. 70 describes the Niš Declaration and discusses Serbian unification beliefs
 * Symbol voting keep.svg CT 4 September 1919 accepted AGF.
 * Symbol voting keep.svg Pavlović 2008, p. 154 accepted AGF, though the names of the towns are not given on the page indicated through my limited Google Books view.
 * Symbol voting keep.svg Bojović 1989, p. 291 accepted AGF.
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Pavlović 1999, p. 162 supports the influx of funds from Serbia to unionists
 * Symbol possible vote.svg Fuller 1943, pp. 209–210 supports Montenegrin objections of representation, but – unless I missed it – does not mention any Montenegrin ambassador, Gvozdenović, or Gvozdenović's position as Montenegrin ambassador to the United States. If you do find a source that supports this claim, please add it to Gvozdenović's page since it's needed there too.
 * Symbol confirmed.svg NYT 8 November 1918 unequivocally confirms Nikola's appeal to Wilson

You are correct. Fuller does not support the claim, but Pavlović does and I have added that reference now.--Tomobe03 (talk) 08:48, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Looks good then. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:51, 6 July 2024 (UTC)