Talk:Pogo (comic strip)

Untitled
More Pogo Resources:
 * Lists of Pogo Quotes and Links
 * Lists of Pogo characters and Pogo books

About the songs: I remember, from the actual strip many years ago, the Christmas song as a blend of the lyrics stated here. It was:

"Bark us all bow-wows of Folly. Walla Walla Wash., and Kalamazoo! Nora's freezin' on the trolley; Swaller dollar cauliflower Alleygaroo". Tesseract12 (talk) 02:30, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Still needs a section on Poetry and whimsy
...specifically Kelly's nonsense poems and literary wordplay, including his many variations of "Deck Us All With Boston Charlie" Anybody up to tackling it? User:Rackinfrackin 23:09 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Above post is obsolete, section has been added. User:Rackinfrackin 04:46 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Pogo Papers date
FYI, I changed the publication date for The Pogo Papers because I have a copy that says Copyright 1952, 1953 and has a Library of Congress number starting with 53-. Gwil 02:37, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

The copyright date is on the strips included in the book, which appeared during 1952 and 1953. I believe the book itself was published in late 1953. PabSungenis 19:51, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Bulldogs
This is the first I've heard of the Bulldogs, though I have the collection Impollutable Pogo in which Spiro Agnew appears as a hyena. What species are Mitchell etc? &mdash;Tamfang 23:54, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

The Bulldogs can be seen in the last three books of original material: We Have Met The Enemy And He Is Us, Pogo's Body Politic, and Pogo: Bats And The Belle's Free. Hoover was an English Bulldog, Mitchell was an Eaglet, and the Agnew Hyena was part of the team. Most characters just referred to them as "The Bulldogs" even though only Hoover's analogue was a bulldog. PabSungenis 19:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Deacon Mushrat
While the Deacon is as hypocritical as the next critter, I'm startled at the current version of his description. I don't recall offhand any story in which he was notably underhanded or greedy, let alone a criminal mastermind. His narrow social views brought him into uneasy alliances with scoundrels like Mole and Catt. &mdash;Tamfang 03:25, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

a boat in Dennis the Menace?
I'd like to put this in but can't source it: Dennis the Menace and his father were once seen fishing from a flat-bottomed boat whose long side was inscribed The Honorable Walter Kelly and the short end Ol' Walt. Dare I hope that someone out there can track it down? &mdash;Tamfang 04:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Here it is. Probably copyright: http://www.igopogo.com/pogofest_2003.htm
 * Picture alone: http://www.igopogo.com/images/Dennis.jpg Carlo 17:25, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Wiley
This page says Wiley Catt was Senator Alexander Wiley. If WC is added to the roster of recurring characters, that should be mentioned. &mdash;Tamfang 04:18, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Bunny Strips
I just put a "fact" request next to the following:

"The bunny strips were usually not reproduced when Pogo strips were collected into book form, but Kelly did include a few samples of them in the 10th anniversary book, Ten Ever-Lovin' Blue Eyed Years With Pogo."

Perhaps somebody can check. I used to have "Ten Ever-Lovin' Blue Eyed Years With Pogo," but I no longer do. It was my first Pogo book and I read it MANY times, and I feel certain that I didn't know of the existence of the bunny strips until much later - I think I first read about them in one the Okefenokee Star's Pogo collections, like "The Best of Pogo." I don't think there were any examples of the Bunny Strips in "Ten Ever-Lovin Blue Eyed Years."

Animation Available?
http://www.idiom.com/%7Elexmark/WHMtE.htm claims to sell animated pogo

Sarcophagus Macabre?
Hmm, somebody missed Sarcophagus Macabre, the vulture undertaker.


 * He's a major figure in the teevee séance saga of 1970 (Impollutable Pogo), but I don't recall seeing him otherwise. &mdash;Tamfang 00:54, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Sarcophagus MacAbre dates back to before Simple J. Malarkey, even though he wasn't seen often in later years. He certainly qualifies to be included. 68.34.242.83 22:37, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Sarco was introduced as Wiley's cousin on October 15 (off panel) /16 (visible), 1951, and started speaking in black-bordered rectangles on November 5. —Tamfang (talk) 05:15, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Also might be nice to comment about different characters "speaking in fonts" -- didn't the Deacon talk in fonts that looked like something out of hymnal?


 * Mostly in blackletter, as already noted; P T Bridgeport spoke in circus posters; Sarco spoke in condolence cards; Cleopatra, on the haunted telephone, spoke in hieroglyphs. Anyone else?  &mdash;Tamfang 00:54, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Khrushchev and the russian seals: Insert Russian letters into words. In "Prehysterical" (which I loaned out) don't some of the characters use Chinese pictograms? I'm not sure this is worth putting in the main article, but maybe a separate page with example panels? The unusual lettering is overall one of distinctive things about the strip.Alpha Ralpha Boulevard 09:22, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Not being a hardcore POGO fan and not having the books, I will leave any changes in the article to those more dedicated to the subject.

MrG / 31 Oct 06

The Bunny Strips
I didn't remember any of the Bunny Strips being reprinted in 'Equal Time For Pogo.' Were they? I do know that a bunch of them (including Kelly's comments on the need for them) were in 'Ten Ever-Lovin' Blue-Eyed Years With Pogo,' however. 69.248.55.105 07:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Mr Mingle
Where is Mr. Mingle in the cast or regulars? I have a strong memory of Mr. Mingle's store in Pogo. Does he not qualify as one of the regular cast of characters? I am not the person to make that addition, however. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.6.36.119 (talk • contribs) 06:13, 23 April 2007


 * Did he run a general store? I can't recall what he looked like ... &mdash;Tamfang 21:35, 28 April 2007 (UTC)


 * That was "Mr. Miggle." The Yankee general store owner, he was a tall skinny bird; possibly a stork or a heron. See here. RedSpruce 01:27, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Larry Doyle
I'm a newbie here, and don't know how to make the change. But the "Larry Doyle" mentioned at the end of the History section is the same Larry Doyle that has a page as a writer on the Simpsons. Lafong 04:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, I've done it. &mdash;Tamfang 16:07, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Can we have some official confirmation of this? I want to add this fact to Doyle's own entry, but they'd probably want me to prove that it's actually the same Larry Doyle. 24.29.228.227 (talk) 21:06, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Beatnik parodies
I'm not very familiar with Pogo at all, but I was working on the "beatnik stereotypes" section on the Beat Generation page when I remembered that Allen Ginsberg once commented that he really appreciated the beatnik parodies in Pogo. I was looking for some information about that in this page but didn't find it. I'm not sure how relevant any of that would be for your page -- I'm sure a brief mention wouldn't hurt, but it might constitute trivia. Anyway, if the beatnik parodies are irrelevant to this page, could someone at least point to where a curious reader might find them, which collection for example or if they're reprinted online? F. Simon Grant 18:51, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Possibly thinking of the communist cowbirds? They appear passim. —Tamfang 04:28, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Without looking, I don't think they're in the period covered by the Fantagraphics series of a few years ago. —Tamfang (talk) 07:54, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The Cowbirds were dressed like beatniks, but they were political subversives of an unspecified persuasion; they sneered at everything in a curious patois of underground-speak and certainly didn’t fit the beatnik stereotype as it related to the espresso-jazz-poetry schtick. Like, Maynard G. Krebs they wasn’t. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.40.25.64 (talk) 21:13, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

superstition
What superstitions did Churchy show other than 13-phobia? —Tamfang (talk) 07:56, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

a boat in Ozy & Millie
http://www.ozyandmillie.org/d/20070907.html &mdash;Tamfang (talk) 23:27, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * now https://ozyandmillie.org/2007/09-07/index.html —Tamfang (talk) 05:20, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

No picture?
I don't really know enough about this to do it myself, but I think this article could really use a picture. HPRappaport (talk) 04:33, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Many Wikipedia articles could use a picture, but Wikipedia has insanely Byzantine rules for which pictures are and aren't allowed, to the point where the rules are to the actual detriment of Wikipedia.


 * As for me, I decided some time ago that I was through doing tons of work getting pictures, reading and deciphering all the boring rules, tagging them six ways to Sunday, etc., - only to have a bot come along and delete it because I only did 9 out of 10 steps correctly, or because I can't absolutely prove that no one in the entire world will have any problem with the picture. Carlo (talk) 18:02, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the above is my experience exactly with the Shmoo, which currently has no picture. Lawyers ruin everything.

User:Rackinfrackin 12:26, 16 Sept. 2009 (UTC)

Goscinny

 * René Goscinny was an admirer of Pogo. Since he was very graphically oriented, too, a plethora of Walt Kelly's ideograms and visual techniques resurfaced in Astérix (e.g. the word balloons being written in old Gothic Fraktur lettering for the Goth and Barbarian characters, and the tax collector speaking in tax-form-balloons).

Ideograms? What does that mean here? — In my rusty old memory, Asterix's Goths speak blackletter but not Fraktur (which is a subfamily of blackletter), at least in the original French; it may well be Fraktur in some translations. —Tamfang (talk) 06:22, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

single-story books

 * "The Jack Acid Society Black Book [... is] one of only two books (the other being Pogo: Prisoner Of Love) to comprise a single storyline."

What about Impollutable Pogo? —Tamfang (talk) 19:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

cowbirds

 * The Cowbirds: [...] Their seldom-mentioned names are Compeer and Confrere.

Um, they often addressed each other so, but I took those to be mere synonyms of comrade. —Tamfang (talk) 21:38, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, they were (mis)using French words to sound intellectual, but came across as pretentious poser pseuds. Same as when they offer someone a 'cubeb' ( non-tabac herbal health cigarette, faddy beatnik item) or talk  big-word bafflegab while sitting in a nest. Confrere=colleague, euphemism for 'comrade'', while 'compeer'(compere)= master of ceremonies, a malapropism, the use of which shows the speaker really has no idea what he is saying. 2.28.168.115 (talk) 00:03, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone know which cowbird is Compeer and which is Confrere? They are pawns in the Pogo chess set I am carving. Geophyzzz (talk) 14:07, 19 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Can you tell them apart? —Tamfang (talk) 05:17, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

naming the boats
I heard once that agents pitching Pogo to newspaper editors would offer to have the editor's name appear on a boat in the strip. I wonder how many names that would explain. —Tamfang (talk) 22:03, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

POV in intro
So "funny animal" was not the POV I was objecting to in the intro. I think Pogo is awesome too, but adjectives like "heady," "sophisticated," "lushly detailed," and "irresistible" do properly belong on a fan site and not a encyclopedia. WP should be neutral in tone.

It did occur to me that you might have written the text on the ASIFA (or that a separate author might have plagiarized WP), and I was a bit careful with my edit summary as a result :-).

How would you feel about a compromise that describes how good the strip is in factual terms (such as saying that it is "critically acclaimed," listing a few more awards associated with the strip, and listing some of the famous people who have described it in positive terms)?

Subverdor (talk) 16:23, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * FWIW, I always thought that Pogo was a father figure to many of the other characters, and not just because he sometimes addressed others as "son". For example, he would solve the impossible situations the others got themselves into, or attempt to give them sound advice, then go off with a bemused look on his face. David Spector (talk) 17:37, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

NO! with Tamfang

 * NO! with Pogo, and CAN'T! with Pogo (both 1969): 45 rpm records for children, narrated and sung by "P.T. Bridgeport" (Kelly) with The Carillon Singers; each came with a color storybook illustrated by Kelly. (Columbia Book & Record Library/Lancelot Press)

Rackinfrackin split this into parallel entries because they were "sold separately". Whatever floats your boat, but I think language like "both 1969" and "each came with..." removes any implication that they were a single package. — How about the figurines 'n' stuff? Does listing different figures on one line imply that they were a bundle? —Tamfang (talk) 20:35, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Idle: Misspelling of a name
He also has a baby sister, whose full name is "Li'l Honey Bunny Ducky Downy Sweetie Chicken Pie Li'l Everlovin' Jelly Bean".

Actually: Churchy (babysitting and perambulating the new groun'chunk chile): Her name is "Li'l Honey Bunny Ducky Downy Sweetie Chicken Pie Li'l Everlovin' Jelly Bean".

Pogo (walking alongside): Ain't that more a boy's name?

Churchy: Not if you spells it with a final E.

--69.118.126.201 (talk) 02:18, 6 August 2010 (UTC)


 * (New topics go at the bottom.) What's your pointe? —Tamfang (talk) 02:16, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Book that featured the last Pogo strip ever
Which Pogo book collection featured the last Pogo strip ever drawn (July 1975)?

Nephew1105 (talk) 02:34, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Bear's unfinished symphony
If anyone can provide publication details of this particular strip they would be welcome, either the original publication or the republication. See Talk:List of silent musical compositions. Andrewa (talk) 19:32, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Merge
Miz Mam'selle Hepzibah doesn't seem separately notable. The article has only one primary source, and little out-of-universe content. Furthermore, I see little point in having an article on her when not even Pogo himself has one. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 00:03, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Support Merge: As stated, the article only has one reference, and is barely more than a stub. Miz Mam'selle Hepzibah could easily redirect to the "Cast of characters" section of the Pogo article instead. Fortdj33 (talk) 17:02, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no objection to it. It would be nice if it could be done without any loss of content.Rackinfrackin (talk) 19:15, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. The article is trivially short, and really has no relevance outside the world of Pogo.  C üRly T üRkey  Talk Contribs 23:05, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Support: I absolutely agree. The useful content in that article will be of greater use to more people folded into "Cast of characters" section.--Vistawhite (talk) 14:21, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

"Don't take life so serious..."
In the Other Quotes section of this article, the line "Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow perm'nent." is attributed to Pogo. If memory serves, I think it was, in fact, Porkypine who said it. This is supported in wikiquotes here. It was paraphrased by Miz Beaver in a much later strip that was lamenting the death of Walt Kelly.

Bill in OK (talk) 15:05, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Illustrations?
Are there no illustrations of this amazing comic strip available? This article cries out for panels showing at least the main characters. Sca (talk) 15:10, 27 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Because they are not in the public domain. See comments under "Copyright violation" below. [User:Risssa|Rissa, Guild of Copy Editors ]] (talk) 22:44, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Way too detailed
Wikipedia articles aren't supposed to contain all known information about a subject, that's the job of author and fan sites, books and magazines. Wikipedia articles are supposed to be a summary of that information written from a neutral point of view. They should also include how the material was received by critics and the public, favorable and unfavorable, and list any specific problems or controversies.

I think making separate articles for the publications etc, and the characters is a good idea. But "Notable Quotes"? The lyrics to the Yuletide song? Those shouldn't be here. Rissa, Guild of Copy Editors (talk) 22:17, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

As a longtime fan of Pogo (since the late '60s when the reprints began), I came today to see what info was listed on Wikipedia. To me, this page looks like a complete mess! Who needs all this detail about the characters? IMO the only characters that should be listed are Pogo, Albert, Porky, Howland, Churchy, and Beauregard, and the intense detail that's currently on there really doesn't need to be. Something like

"Pogo Possum, the Everyman of the strip, somehow manages to keep a level head despite the shenanigans of his swamp-mates."

ought to be enough.

As a Pogo fan, it was entertaining to read all this mess, but as someone wanting information (if I had no prior knowledge of the strip and wanted to see what it was all about), this is daunting and would have put me off. 73.53.72.243 (talk) 23:05, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Another lifetime Pogo fan here. I thought the character summaries both excellent and necessary; they exemplify Kelly’s genius, being the product of a single creative mind. There are similar summaries of characters for various sit-coms on Wikipedia. They amount IMHO to fan-club mag fodder. Sitcoms and such are the product of committees.2001:8003:303D:BC00:4DC:121:FCA7:A2F1 (talk) 21:36, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

No references
This article has a "Notes" section but no proper references with inline citations. This goes against one of Wikipedia's most important guidelines: that statements made in articles must be backed-up with footnotes to verifiable sources or all or part of the article may be removed. This article doesn't have any of these. We have no way of knowing if all the information here is true or if it somebody just made it up. Rissa, Guild of Copy Editors (talk) 22:27, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Copyright violation
Using the "Earth Day 1971" panel here is a violation of Walt Kelly/estates's copyright. Unless someone can verify that Wikipedia was given written permission to use this then it must be removed. Wikipedia only uses illustrations that are in the public domain and nearly everything that is shown here goes in the public domain meaning anyone can use this illustration of Pogo for anything he or she wants, something I learned when a photo of tulip I donated to Wikipedia was later used by a bulb company to sell that type of tulip at their website.

Comments before I remove it? Or someone else does? Rissa, Guild of Copy Editors (talk) 22:41, 11 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah. Don't do it. Using a single day's strip to illustrate an example of a newspaper comic, with a suitable use rationale, clearly meets en-wiki NFC policy requirements and the applicable WMF poicy. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 23:34, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

80s?
There was a revival of the strip briefly in the late 1980s. I recall the local student newspaper, The Independent Florida Alligator, running it. It was clearly new strips (I presume authorized) and not just reprints, as one series of them referred to then-PotUS Bush Senior. There's no mention of this in there. Just calling attention to it so someone more determined than me finds suitable reference to this and adds mention of it, as seems appropriate.... --167.230.96.11 (talk) 22:04, 24 July 2015 (UTC)


 * This is mentioned briefly under "Last Strips". Rick Norwood (talk) 11:17, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Grundoon('s sister)
Maybe a misspelling. The line introducing her name SAID

Churchy: "Li'l Honey Bunny Ducky Downy Sweetie Chicken Pie Li'l Everlovin' Jelly Bean." Other Char (bunrab?) : "ain't that more a BOY's name?" Churchy: "Not if you spells it with the final E."

May want to consider changing the entry thus "BeanE" Featheredfrog (talk) 02:44, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Article needs additional citations for verification
When adding refimprove on 4 January 2012, an IP editor commented that there are an "excessive number of statements that read like OR which are lacking supporting citations."

For example, the history section's four paragraphs have only two inline citations, one of which is to a self-published source. The section's description of the type of humor and of Kelly's reasons for doing certain things have no clear source. The possible original research continues through the character descriptions ("The wisest (and probably sanest) resident", "a parody of the blueblood aristocracy", "often the comic foil for", "like a seasoned comedy team", etc.) to the end of the article. Reliable sources need to be cited so that it is clear that these are not just the opinions or interpretations of Wikipedia editors. --Worldbruce (talk) 15:17, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Popular Cultural References
The quote "We have met the enemy and he is one of us" is also in the US move called GI Joe. G.I._Joe:_Retaliation 87.102.44.18 (talk) 21:27, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

reappearance in Times Magazine
After the first retirement of the strip, it appeared one more time, as a good-bye at Walt Kelly's widow's direction, as a full page in The New York Times Magazine. I do not know if this is what is implied in the Other quotes section of the article, where a citation is needed, or if the Times page was in a later year, perhaps at Christmas or New Year's. Nick Levinson (talk) 00:24, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

"Walt Kelley's mistress"?
The article currently asserts (in the "Permanent Residents" section) that Miz Hepzibah was "modeled after Kelly's mistress, who later became his second wife." (That would be Stephanie Waggony.) I can't find any references to this fact online. Is it from a book? Can we get a citation, maybe? Larry Hastings (talk) 09:00, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

I did read this somewhere, not online, but not sure where. I've got so many Pogo/Kelly books and merchandise it's hard to keep track. But it was Selby Kelly who was the model for Miz Hepzibah, as I recall. Not sure if Stephanie Waggony was Selby Kelly or not.73.53.72.243 (talk) 00:39, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Further reading excessive?
This section includes a lot of listings related more to Walt Kelly than Pogo (like non-Pogo books he illustrated, Fantagraphics' Our Gang collections). Shouldn't the solely Kelly entries be moved to his entry, adding a further reading section to it? Thoughts? Dgabbard (talk) 21:45, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Personal References Section
I added a general encyclopedia source to the Personal References section that supported it, but more work should be done into getting a solid source for that section, and the included fact about the significance of the changing names on the side of the boat.--Skyprism (talk) 03:34, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

on the naming and renaming of rabbits
I am tempted to add to P.T.'s paragraph that he never calls Bun Rabbit by the same name twice, even within one panel. But perhaps it is too long already. —Tamfang (talk) 04:04, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Pogo is my favourite comic strip (and I really like comic strips) and for a long time now I've had in the back of my mind that I'd really like to overhaul this page. One change I'd like to make is to replace a lot of the uncited cruft with cited material that gives readers a sense for what the comic actually is about, and what it's like to read. So the kind of thing you mention I think could be wonderful flavour for an overhauled article that properly situates it in the context of the motifs and ideas that Kelly plays with. I'd also really like to expand the parts of the article about the relationship between the strip and political events of its time, and the effects it had on subsequent strips. All of this to say, if you'd like to give the page some focused attention and work together on improving the page, let me know and I'll bump it up in my list of priorities. - Astrophobe  (talk) 14:24, 28 September 2023 (UTC)


 * What role do you think Kelly played in creating the first Earth Day?
 * The article features "Pogo daily strip from Earth Day 1971". If documentation exists of any substantive contribution that Kelly made to that event, it would be great to have it discussed here. (But, sadly, I am not is a position to research that.) DavidMCEddy (talk) 15:24, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Frequent visitors
I would cut some from the "Frequent visitors" section; for example, Basil MacTabolism (the poll cat) appeared in a longish storyline in election season, but did he ever appear again? —Tamfang (talk) 02:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)