Talk:Police collaboration in Vichy France

Oh hey look at this
Well done you guys. This needs to be linked up with Carlingue, Henri Lafont, Countesses of the Gestapo, Illa Meery, Joseph Joanovici and Black market in wartime France Elinruby (talk) 05:23, 5 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Elinruby (talk) 05:26, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * There's also quite a lot of involvement of the French train network SNCF (search), with the police rounding up people and forcing them to transit camps, and SNCF picking up the baton and shipping them to work or death camps. Maybe the SNCF collaboration could be a whole, new article, or perhaps it could be combined with this one, although I don't know what we would call it. Mathglot (talk) 06:03, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, fr:Collaboration policière sous le régime de Vichy is 85kb, so plenty of room to expand this one. Mathglot (talk) 06:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The reason I never expanded at the time, even though there was quite a large fr article, was because it seemed to be just a list of operations as opposed to a some definition of collaboration and its meaning (which we have identified an article need updated) + why they decided to collaborate + list of operations. There wasn't the depth in it. I'm going to update that wartime collaboration article shortly. I just need some Lister completed.    scope_creep Talk 

Article title needs work
There is no subject/object composition - the collaboration has to be with something.GraemeLeggett (talk) 08:13, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily: see collaboration in Vichy; but if that's either how the sources phrase it, or a clearer WP:NDESC, then it could be redone. But otoh, the word collaboration is a term so closely associated with Vichy and WW2 that the current title seems WP:PRECISE and WP:CONCISE to me; any doubt would be resolved in the WP:LEADSENTENCE. In a way, it's similar to the titles Resistance during World War II, or French Resistance: any question about "against whom?" is resolved in the lead. Mathglot (talk) 06:32, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I thought the title was pretty decent, after the last dud entry. I suppose we could add more descriptive text in the lead. I think it is pretty accurate when compared title formats, re:above   scope_creep Talk  09:36, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I like the title and think Vichy is easily well-enough known to make the context clear. If people agree on another title however, I generally support consensus in page moves and no doubt would do so here. I was just very impressed to find an article from months earlier that pertains to the current black market batch.Elinruby (talk) 15:31, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Well "Collaboration policière sous le régime de Vichy" translates as "Police collaboration under the Vichy regime" and you're making an assumption that the average reader knows the relationship between Vichy government and the Third Reich.
 * I note also the Manual of Style says "If the article title is merely descriptiv...the title does not need to appear verbatim in the main text." GraemeLeggett (talk) 17:58, 7 August 2023 (UTC)