Talk:Pomp and Circumstance Marches

Comments
I'm not sure whether or not this page should even be here - most (if not all) of the relevent information is covered in teh article on Elgar himself (including more detailed information on composition and movements).

I'm not sure if I should remove it or not though - I'm quite new at this game -- Sarcas


 * It is at least badly named, because there are five Pomp and Circumstance Marches, so either this should be called Pomp and Circumstance March No. 1 or it should be called Pomp and Circumstance Marches. There's nothing wrong with an article on the piece(s) in principle, but as you say there's not a lot here right now. I don't have time to fix this at the moment, but my inclination would be to rename, but not remove. --Camembert
 * I added some material on marches 2-5 before I checked with this discussion page. So the duplication with the Elgar article, while still too much, isn't so bad. I agree it should be moved to "Pomp and Circumstance Marches". Maybe one day there will be reason to write an article on "Pomp and Circumstance" (the concept itself). OK, I'll do that (I'll have done it by the time you read this) and will fix the links. But I do wonder if all the stuff about the graduation uses of No. 1 deserves its own article. David Brooks 06:29, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's enough for an article on just No. 1. Is there much more that can be said about the graduation aspect? – flamuraiTM 06:55, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)


 * One can try. Elgar disliked (or loathed if you watch Ken Russell) hearing LOHAG everywhere he went. The Prommers sing it lustily every Last Night with a full understanding of the irony of lost Empire (well, I did in the late 60's). "Gosh, Billy, I've a tune in my head" and "I've got a tune that will knock 'em - knock 'em flat" highlighting E's self-confidence. OK, I agree that's not enough for an article. I think a link to elgar.org will substitute for all that.  http://www.elgar.org/3pomp.htm; what do you think? David Brooks 07:11, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Could perhaps someone step in and write a little on the phrase "pomp and circumstance"? I found this page while looking for a good description of that saying. I didn't even realise that it meant something other than what I thought was its common use. -- i.e. "flashyness". I'd be bold and do it myself, but I'm really lacking in understanding the phrase. If someone pokes me in a few months I'll probably do it then if in the mood to restructure this and its related topics. -- Sy 01:18, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * As you probably realized, it doesn't mean flashy at all. Pomp (very different from pomposity) means solemn ceremony. Any flashiness is seondary. The whole idea is rooted in Victorian confidence in the importance of the institutions, empire, and ritual. Give it a shot and see if it can be done without unbalancing the article even more. David Brooks 06:29, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I wonder if the external link is necessary. Could it be removed? --Hannu 10:08, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

"The March in popular culture" section is misnamed, and almost all of the items in the section do not specify which of the five marches are referred to. Very confusing; needs to be changed.

The March is considered to be highly addictive, especially in travel-related circles.

--- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.239.221.225 (talk) 08:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

So, under March No. 1 in D, there's a long descriptive section, which I'm not sure is entirely appropriate. Also, whoever wrote it produced the ridiculous phrase "conclusive end," which I have since excised. Some Wikipedian more seasoned than I, perhaps, can tell whether or not that entire section must go. Theoryofevrythng (talk) 18:42, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Please note there is a descriptive section under each of the Marches. Descriptions seem appropriate. That wording "conclusive end" could be rewritten "emphatic end", since I agree a conclusion is virtually an end, so agree with your removal, but in this march if you listen to it the end of the music is clearly signalled, and there may be a better way of describing it if its going to be described at all. P0mbal (talk) 12:31, 18 March 2009 (UTC) Thank you Theoryofevrythng that end description is good. P0mbal (talk) 12:36, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

March No. 6
Would anyone consider adding the instrumentation of March No. 6 if a score is available? P0mbal (talk) 22:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC) It's been done. P0mbal (talk) 22:26, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Media
I have removed the File:Pomp and Circumstance.ogg from the article; it's a horrible rendition made with the program GarageBand – a MIDI file converted to OGG. Even File:Land of hope and glory.mid is less offensive (but still not suitable for inclusion). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:07, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Subheadings
The recent addition of consistent subheadings is a welcome improvement to the article's structure. The resulting very long table of contents is in my opinion an unfortunate side effect. It can be avoided in (at least) two ways: 1) use bolded headings using the ";" (semi-colon) markup for level 4 headings, or 2) limit the levels for the table of contents to 2 using the template TOC limit. What do others think? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:38, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, (1) would improve, giving subdivisions without indexing. P0mbal (talk) 11:49, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

"shows of things"?
Why is this phrase in quotation marks? It doesn't appear in anywhere else in the article, and it's not clear where it's quoted from. 2604:2000:EFC0:2:28C9:9497:C68B:2C0B (talk) 00:54, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * It's a reference to a famous quote from Francis Bacon's The Advancement of Learning (1605): poetry is "submitting the shows of things to the desires of the mind". How this relates to De Tabley's poem or to its choice by Elgar is anybody's guess. Unless some clarification can be added by further consulting the source, Maine (1993), that phrase should probably be removed. Maybe User:P0mbal who that passage on 3 August 2008 can elaborate. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:46, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Many thanks are due for your great help here. I have added notes, with detail from you that I have lifted into the article. P0mbal (talk) 10:24, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I've just come to the article specifically to look up what the phrase "Pomp and Circumstance" means and where it comes from and have been left very confused by the "shows of things" phrase. I'd suggest it is removed. 90.242.190.27 (talk) 19:04, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * This has now been part of the article for more than 7 years without any objections. If this thought was significant enough for Basil Maine to mention, Wikipedia readers should not be denied to know about it. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 00:39, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

De Tabley's poem
Could Alice have paraphrased De Tabley's poem "quoted" at the beginning of the article? Sorry Alice, if it were you, but your effort does not bear comparison. I have not investigated that possibility. Anyone? P0mbal (talk) 10:35, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Usage in US at Graduations
It might be worth mentioning that the arrangement of March No. 1 used in *high school* graduations is actually modified so it can be played with a high school band -- it's the Clare Grundman arrangement. StatsJunkie (talk) 01:52, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Macho Man
Randy Savage — Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.0.98 (talk) 19:29, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:29, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Pomp and circumstances No. 1.ogg