Talk:Pompon

Seeing as the article refers to "pom-pon" throughout rather than "pompon," I moved it and made the redirect. The hyphen has never been a point of contention it seems, so the move seemed logical.

= old talk page = I made a major edit that hopefully will clarify the below concerns and issues. Additionally, I placed comment or reply below on this talk page. I hope that clarifies the topic even where I don't provide an answer but a point of possible contention (re: the different word possibility). VigilancePrime 08:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Spelling

 * Pom-pon is correct. The simplest way to verify this (assuming we are still speaking in relation to cheerleading) is to research professional Cheer suppliers, manufacturers, associations (such as NCA, UCA, etc.) and coaches. Having done this, I (and many others also could) assure you that it is Pom-pons.
 * VigilancePrime 04:47, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * "Pompon" is the correct and proper spelling for this item. "Pompom" or "pom-pom" are common enough misspellings that they need to be (and have been) maintained as redirects, but Wikipedia articles are properly titled by the correct terminology. Bearcat 1 July 2005 16:18 (UTC)
 * "Pompon" is the correct and proper spelling for this item. "Pompom" or "pom-pom" are common enough misspellings that they need to be (and have been) maintained as redirects, but Wikipedia articles are properly titled by the correct terminology. Bearcat 1 July 2005 16:18 (UTC)


 * In all the dictionaries and encyclopedias I could find on-line, pompon is a flower, and pompom is the spherical fluffy thing. The only exception is the OED didn't seem to differentiate. I also checked the Webster dictionary. Google seems to prefer pom pom. Just out of curiosity, where did you find that pompon is the preferred term? Loggie July 2, 2005 15:54 (UTC)


 * Dictionary.com lists the entry at pompon; pompom redirects to pompon. Also see here. Bearcat 05:15, 30 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I read answers.com differently. Yes, "pompom" did re-direct to "pompon".  But, the first two meanings are unrelated to thing used by cheerleaders.  The third item is "pompom", which is related to cheerleading.  So, basically, it's saying "pompom" is a sub-type of "pompon".
 * When you misspell a word in "answers.com", it *asks* you if you meant something else. It doesn't just send you to the correct spelling.  "pompon" is not a misspelling.
 * Either there should be two seperate articles, or the one article should make clear both spellings are appropriate, if and only if, used for the appropriate meaning. --rob 12:51, 11 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Do you have an answer to the WSU link which says that they're both properly called pompons? Bearcat 06:44, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
 * My take is that it's saying "purists", that use the French meaning, still use "pompon". Normally, we go by common English usage.  Also, my re-wording, said "pompom" is a type (e.g. subset) of pompon.  There's no suggestion in the wiki article that pompon is wrong.  It's a matter of fact to say pompom is used more.  I think the link you mention essentially confirms pompom is the used by most people.  Basically my position (and the current article) is that pompon is always valid for any type of this thing (even the thing used by cheerleaders), and pompom is valid for only a certain type (that which cheerleaders use).  I see no problem.  --rob 07:04, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Google is of course the most reliable source around. :-) How about these links: http://usasf.net and http://aacca.org for Pom-Pon references.

It IS Pom-PON, and there is a hyphen in it. NOW, if the semantics of hyphen and no-hyphen referring to a cheer prop versus a fluffy ball on a hat want to be debated, go for it; that's not ont I have nor probably would look into but perhaps to help in the divergence of this article into two different articles, one for each.

More below... VigilancePrime 08:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Pompon as a Sport
Although it is not commonly known, in some regions of the United States Pompon is considered a sport separate from cheerleading.


 * Since I see a Pom-pon as a thing and not activity, could you explain briefly what you mean? Is it a dance team -like activity, for instance? The word itself is a noun referring to a thing that is used, so I'm not sure what you mean by this.
 * VigilancePrime 00:25, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

anti pom-pom POV
The opinion about whether "pom-pom" is correct, or incorrect, is just that, an opinion. Stating that "pom-pom" is wrong, is a point-of-view. Opinions should not be stated as objective facts. Also *both* opinions and facts, should have proper citations. Also, please don't respond to this by citing something on this talk page, or my talk page, please put the required citaitons in the article itself. I actually care very little about the use of "pom-pom" versus "pompon", and won't edit to make it fit my personal view (which favors "pom-pom" as being valid). What concerns me more is the second-rate sourcing of the article. Saying "...is seen in the majority of professional sources" is about the worst type of sourcing you can possible do. The only thing worse than not providing a source (which I was personally guilty of in my past edits of this article) is claiming sources without citing sources. The choking hazard is another thing, where we should make specific cited statements, or not say anything. Obviously, kids can choke on strings, but if all we have to say is based on common knowledge, let's skip it. --Rob 11:35, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I have cleaned up this article a bit, and have taken out some of the parts of the objectionable paragraph. I added a tag to the statement that many sources use "Pom-pon". Will that suffice? NatusRoma 05:10, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * That's good for me. --Rob 07:12, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

It's not an opinion; the spelling ending in "pon" simply is correct in the context in which this article is written. Google is hardly the end-all and be-all of research; check almost any professional cheer-related site, and you will see Pom-Pon. Inside Cheerleading Magazine, American Cheerleader Magazine, Cheer Coach & Advisor Magazine, the AACCA, the USASF, the NFHS (National Federation for State High School Associations), and even commercial providers such as Varsity and many more all use the -PON term almost exclusively.

Again, if the question is or becomes one of the difference between the cheering apparatus and the fluff on a hat, then go for it; I'm not involved in that one. IF that is the case, though, and the HAT version should be -POM, then it warrants a different article as it is a different item.

Remember, just because an error is widespread doesn't make it right. :-) VigilancePrime 08:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Other uses
Pom-pons also have decorative uses, which I mentioned in the disambiguation article when I added the item that turned into this page, which seem to predate cheerleading use and continue until present. I've re-introduced this notion, deleted by an anonymous user; relatedly, the fashion-stub tag is back. Please don't re-delete these changes without explanation. I've also de-italicized and de-capitalized the uses of "pompon" in the article, as it is an English word, and removed the hyphen, as this usage seems to be proper, if less common. Tell me if anyone is upset by these things. &mdash;Vivacissamamente 02:53, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


 * My only disagreement is with the hyphen. As I have said twice above, though, I am willing to accept the notion that with or without may be the difference between the Cheerleader Pom-Pon and the ball of fluff on a hat, a Pompon or pom-pom or pompom.
 * Only focusing on the World of Cheerleading in my view, and if anything that is the difference: Similar word, totally different (but related) meanings. :-D VigilancePrime 08:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC)