Talk:Poom Jensen

Untitled
Are there reliable sources stating BJ was suffering under autism? Rabauz 21:43, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Yes, his mother spoke openly about her son's autism in 1999, and her comments were reprinted in the Bangkok Post obituary 28 Dec 04 Sandover 30 Dec 2004

Factual Error?
Dear Reader, I have interpreted that this article mentions that Khun Bhumi Jensen was riding on a jetski during the time that the waves struck and his bodyguards were unable to reach him. Here is a direct quotation from the article: "Bhumi Jensen was at the beach jet skiing, and his bodyguards were unable to reach him." I am not sure if this statement is correct, as the comment made by Princess Ubol Rattana Rajakanya (his mother) in the Bangkok Post on I believe it was the 28th, claimed that he was on the beach, not on a jetski. Could someone please correct this article? Thank you

The article says he was at the beach jet skiing, not that he was actually on a jet ski at the time the tsunami hit. I based this article on the Bangkok Post and The Nation websites. Adam 08:39, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Spelling
The Thai spelling of his name is พุ่ม เจนเซ่น, which according to Royal Thai General System of Transcription (using ) transcribes to "Phum". In the autograph at Pantip he wrote himself as "Poom". I don't know from which source the "Bhumi" originates. His last name is no problem, as that one is originally in roman letters already. The transcription of Thai to Roman letters is a pain, there are hunderts of systems, thus it's not easy to decide on one spelling - but definitely the article shouldn't be at something like Khun Poom Jensen as Khun just means "Mister" - we don't have Mister Bill Gates or President George Bush either. I just moved it back from such. andy 10:39, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * Poom (&#3614;&#3640;&#3656;&#3617;) is a well-known name, but not a real name. His real name is Bhumi (&#3616;&#3641;&#3617;&#3636;), spells &#3616; with bh because &#3616;&#3641;&#3617;&#3636; comes from Pali-Sanskrit (like HM King Bhumibol Adulyadej). -- PaePae 13:22, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * So I was just confused by that page on Pantip using the nickname only. So it seems the article is correctly placed at Bhumi Jensen. andy 21:55, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I am currently in Bkk and that is the form the English-language press here uses. Adam 06:08, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Beloved Princess
I have again reverted the reference to "beloved Ubol Rattchana." It may well be true that she is beloved, but whether it is true or not, it is unencyclopaedic to put the term "beloved" in front of someone's name in an article. It would be legitimate to say at the Ubol Rattana Rajakanya article that "Ubol Rattana is beloved by the Thai people" if that is the anon user's view. The anon user says at my Talk page that the whole Thai Royal Family is beloved, but I notice he does not describe the Crown Prince as "beloved." In fact it is well known that he is not beloved, or even much liked. I have spoken to Thais about this, and they agree that the Royal Family, or most of it, is widely respected and indeed loved by most Thais. But they also know that the cult of the Royal Family was manufactured by past military regimes to bolster their legitimacy, and that the current affection for the Royals may not long outlive the current King and Queen. In the long run Royal cultism is not healthy in a democratic country. So this is a complex political and historical question, and cannot be addressed just be describing people as "beloved." Adam 05:39, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

More on the Beloved Princess
The Anon User Agrees that the Crown Prince is not beloved and the Anon User choses to no longer pursue the "beloved" issue with beloved Princess Ubolrat.

As a Thai who has lived in the West for many years, however, I am disappointed that you bring criticism of the Royal Family into your rationale for your decision for/against "beloved."

I am an American now and as such, like you, I no longer believe in "Royal cultism." We should not be bringing our value judgements to the table when reporting on the royal family. Whether or not it is good for Thai democracy, the "Royal Cult" exists in Thai. It is not our place in reporting on it to omit it for the sake of saving the Thai people from the dangers of Royal cultism.

A closing thought. Had I chosen to place the word "reviled" in front of the words "crown prince" in pieces about him would you have removed them as well? [Anonymous Thai-American] 10:12 EST, 16 Jan 2005


 * Most definitely. On your general points, I did not delete "beloved" because I have any criticisms to make of the Thai Royals. I think on the whole their influence has been beneficial since the 1970s (although it is worth remembering that from 1934 to 1973 they served only as a facade for military rule). I deleted it because it is unencyclopaedic to describe anyone as "beloved" or "reviled" in such a manner. Adam 05:35, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Peter Ladd Jensen
I tossed some quick facts (without links) about Peter Ladd Jensen up on a page for him. Feel free to remove the word "beloved."

Please stop making anonymous contributions to this page. It is very easy to become a registered user. Adam 05:35, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * While I agree with Adam that the word "beloved" don't belong into this article, I strongly disagree with the second statement. There is no policy disallowing anonymous edits, as otherwise anonymous editing would be switched on in the software. Of course anonymous editors are encouraged to create user accounts, but this not mandatory! andy 06:45, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I didn't say it was mandatory. I said it was easy, and it is also a matter of courtesy. Adam 11:18, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * Where is the article on Peter Ladd Jensen, Adam? It´s defimitely not (Sydney´s Anglican Archbishop) Peter Jensen. Ié been unable to find any mention of PLJ except in connection with his former wife. Peter Ellis 20:06, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * He is an American who met Ubol in the early 70s(?) while they were both at MIT. I have met him several time but I know little about him.  --AStanhope 20:13, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I cannot find the Peter Ladd Jensen page containing "quick facts" that is cited above. Anyone? --AStanhope 20:14, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Bangkok Post link
Unfortunately, the Bangkok Post has deleted the 7 January letter from its system. I have tried to find a copy elsewhere, and failed; a sentnce only was preserved in a Google cache. The originator of the entry (I think User:Adam Carr) might like to look for another, and hopefully more durable, article or link. Peter Ellis 20:06, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * IMO, the Bangkok Post's website operation is stuck in 1997 web amateur hour. --AStanhope 20:17, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

For the record, it wasn't me who said they were writing an article on Peter Ladd Jensen. Also, I don't know where to find the letter in the Bangkok Post if it isn't at their website any more. I didn't keep the hard copy of the paper (I am now in Hanoi so I can't do anything about this at present). Adam 13:55, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * Okay. I see what happened, Adam. It&#347; also the reason that Ie caught on to the indentation by using the colon at the head of the para. Peter Ellis 14:16, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Too bad no one saved the letter (including me)... the Bangkok Post letter from Bhumi Jensen's teacher offered a vivid sense of the conscientiousness with which Jensen dispatched his official responsibilities. Like a great number of high-functioning autistic individuals I have known (I'm a special education teacher in the USA), Jensen could apparently keep a precise schedule in his head for months ahead of time. That in itself is a very interesting detail which probably belongs in the Wikipedia entry, even if we can no longer reference it directly from the teacher's letter. Although his teacher didn't say so explicitly, it is probable that Jensen, like a lot of others with high-functioning autism, had trouble reading expressions on peoples' faces and understanding the subtexts in conversations and social situations. To my mind, this makes his diligence and determination to fulfill his royal duties all the more admirable. I hope that a biography comes out one day. In the meanwhile, perhaps someone in Thailand with contacts at the Bangkok Post can re-post the letter, perhaps to this Talk page. His life deserves to be better known. Sandover 22:39, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * I know several people like this at various levels of functin; I travelled by public bus with one today, and it can be both tiring and exhilerating to participate in a conversation with them. Peter Ellis 14:16, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I was under the impression that once something had been posted on the Web it was always cached somewhere and could always be retrieved. Is this not so? Adam 03:01, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * You are definitely spoiled by the Wiki principle. "Normal" websites don't keep their history. Sometimes google still has an old version in their cache until they recrawl the site. archive.org crawls websites maybe once a month, but they publish their cache with one year delay, and who knows if they catched that article. The other english newspaper of Thailand The Nation keeps a complete archive... andy 09:29, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Someone has found the text of the Post article at a blog. In case it disappears again, here it is:

Sunday, January 09, 2005

Remembering Khun Poom

Jan 14 at 12 noon will mark the first time that Khun Poom Jenson will not honour one of his appointments with me.

Khun Poom always liked to keep a tight schedule and he was notorious for planning things months in advance and remembering every detail of those plans.

It was a way for him to deal with the chaos of his autism by being extremely organised and by keeping those appointments at the exact time when they were to take place.

I have been teaching English to Khun Poom at Satit Kaset's IP programme for the past year. When I was first given the assignment of improving Khun Poom's writing skills I was very nervous. I mean, how often are you asked to teach the grandson of the King anything? But then the kicker is that he has autism which greatly hinders his ability to study. I worried that he would not listen to me or that he wouldn't do what I asked him to. But these concerns were completely unfounded.

Khun Poom loved to come and study. He always arrived on time, greeting me with a handshake and an excited smile and often with a story of what he had done the night before. While studying he always tried to do his best, even when his autism made things so confusing for him, he would not give up.

A few weeks ago when we wrote his birthday card for the King he did the best job of writing he had ever done. His eyes were vibrant with his desire to make his grandfather's card perfect.

He shouted out adjectives to me as we put on the whiteboard just exactly how he felt about his grandfather and then we went to work putting those adjectives into a lovely sentiment upon his card.

Three days a week I would go to lunch with Khun Poom because part of my assignment was to get him to feel more comfortable in talking with people and being in public.

Like most autistic people, Khun Poom preferred calm to noise, small groups to crowds. In public situations he fought his autism with prince-like bravery by trying to remain calm, even when his watch was telling him it was time for him to be somewhere else, trying to smile when people wanted a photo with him, even when he knew taking a photo with them would risk him being a minute late for one of his appointments.

Week by week all of his teachers were noticing some real progress in Khun Poom's comfort in being in public.

On Mondays we would go to KU Home on the campus of Kaset University. They put out a big buffet with many delicious dishes. One day we went and they had not prepared any Jell-O, which was one of his favourites.

"Where's the Jell-O?" Khun Poom asked the manager, who replied: "I'm sorry Khun Poom, we did not make any Jell-O today." He nodded his head and accepted this without much fuss.

The other teachers and I forgot about the issue altogether, but not Khun Poom. The next week, we went to the same place, but as we pulled up Khun Poom pulled two boxes of Jell-O from his pocket. "I brought them Jell-O," he told me. Of course the manager had already prepared Jell-O for Khun Poom, but he gave her the boxes anyway. Where so many people in his position might have complained and caused a fuss, Khun Poom had tried to solve this problem in his own way by bringing his own Jell-O.

On Friday Dec 17, Satit Kaset had an educational fair. Khun Poom, his friend Thun, Ajarn Thuy and I walked around sampling foods, and with barely a nudge Khun Poom would agree to photos with the workers, smiling for them and thanking them before he moved on. It was for Ajarn Thuy and I, Khun Poom's best day because he seemed relaxed and to be having a really good time. People loved Khun Poom and they all wanted to chat with him and get a photo with him. One girl in a Kaset uniform told me, "Khun Poom is very handsome in person, much more handsome than when I see him on TV."

When the morning was over we walked back to his room at the school carrying with us all kinds of different foods for our lunch. We ate together while chatting excitedly about the two-week vacation we were about to enjoy.

When I needed to leave I told Khun Poom goodbye and he said to me, "Do you want to go to Sahan Pode on Friday Jan 14 at 12 o'clock?"

Now this wasn't that unusual for him to plan four weeks in advance, but it was the message behind it that meant something to me. Khun Poom never liked to eat at Sahan Pode because it was crowded and noisy; however, he knew that I loved Sahan Pode because of the delicious food. Khun Poom had had a great day and he didn't say thank you to me with idle words, but by planning a lunch with me at my favourite restaurant instead of having us go to his favourite restaurant. They were the last words he ever said to me and typified his good-hearted nature.

It was an honour and privilege to be one of Khun Poom's teachers. I'm certain that I speak for all of his many teachers at Satit Kaset IP when I say that he will be greatly missed.

My deepest regrets for his family.

AJARN JONATHON SIMINOE


 * indeed very sad. maybe we can integrate this somehow? Respect to the Royal Family. Antares911

copyright
hey antares911 or whoever wrote the blog thing of his teacher, I think you made a copyright because you copied one thing from someplace ,if you got special permission to rewrite\copy it here, then you're fine

You have my permission to copy it. I wrote it for all of those who knew him and am glad to share it. Jonathon Siminoe

"Former"
Is his father former husband or former American?Dahn 22:42, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Khun Poom Trust Fund
Apparently, Princess Ubol Ratana has established an educational trust fund in memory, and with money coming from the death of, her son, Khun Poom. My Isan step-grandson has just been awarded 15,000 Baht a year from this fund, and I would like to know more about it than the garbled account I get from my wife and his teachers! Pawyilee 09:41, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Picture
Why was the picture of Khun Poom changed? Why should it not revert to the original, formal photo? Pawyilee 13:02, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Naming conventions and honorific
I've proposed a change at Talk:Sirikitiya Jensen and would like to harmonize it here. Their honorific titles are the same, and both their names are similar to, but not the same, as their maternal grandparents - the latter would violate Thai law on Royal names. --Pawyilee (talk) 11:22, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Poom change citations
Thai names do in fact change for a variety of reason, both during life and after death, but a change like this needs some explanation as to when and why, and citation(s) are needed. Instigated by Poom, himself, while he was alive, or after his death, by whom and why? What court or judge agreed to or ordered change, and in what jurisdictions does it apply, US, Thai or world wide? Does it also apply to birth and death records? If changed because it was too similar to royal name and so violated Thai law, then that would also apply to his sister's name. If changed by royal decree, when was it published and where? Do remember this also affects his sister! --Pawyilee (talk) 12:41, 16 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Hmm... I was under the impression this was quite common knowledge in Thailand, but reliable sources are harder to find than I'd thought. This page reproducing an article from Kom Chad Leuk quotes Princess Ubolratana saying the name change was suggested by the King in order to alleviate Khum Poom's illness (not sure if this refers to his autism). It's implied here that his birth name was regarded as being somewhat unlucky or jinxed. --Paul_012 (talk) 17:03, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * PS Since his name is a normal given name (he doesn't hold a royal title) no royal decree was necessary. This was long before his death in the tsunami but I don't know exactly when. --Paul_012 (talk) 17:05, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Poom Jensen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090820040613/http://www.mfa.go.th:80/royalweb/666.html to http://www.mfa.go.th/royalweb/666.html

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:08, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Poom Jensen.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:23, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * พุ่ม เจนเซน.jpg

House of Mahidol?
His mother decided to leave a royal title long time ago, therefor he could not in the House of Mahidol. I am not so sure either. Anyone can confirm? --Polyesterchips (talk) 13:22, 21 November 2021 (UTC)