Talk:Porsche 911 (930)/Archive 1

This page carries a major error: the model shown on top of the box is a Porsche 965 and not a 930! Even moreso, this 965 is not in factory spec! The shown slant nose is a seldom bto variant of the 930 and not a representative picture in an overview article about the 930! German Autofreak 08:47, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

I took the liberty of deleting a dark green 930 turned into a 965 look-alike. I explain: this car cetainly is nice, cudos and respect to the owner! However it does not represent a 930, as the owner exchanged many parts on that car: it looks like a mixture between a 965 Turbo (bumpers), a 964 Carrera RS 3.8 (wing) and a 930 of the Exclusive program (rockers). Even the despcription 'aero' is misleading in this context, as Porsche did not offer any 'aero'-program looking even close to that dark-green 930. Any reader would likely get confused between 930 and 965. To prevent this I think it is better to leave this picture out of this article. German Autofreak 08:40, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Please don't delete the image of the oak green mettalic 930 turbo carrera. It is a 1976 born turbo carrera and is therefore an example of a 930. Think about it: it came from the factory a 930 and guess what? Right, it is STILL a 930 therefore I added it back. Besides it has been out there along time and no one but you has complained about the bumpers, tail, turbo twist wheels and the 'aero' mirrors. 0waldo 16:20, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Consider it for yourself, 0waldo: this (presumably your) 930 does not look like a 930 anymore. It looks much more like a 965 with a few "wrong" details (wheels, rockers). This will not change with the time this picture remains here. Any non-expert reader would get confused. This article is not about getting into the details of customizing 911s, thus I think this is the wrong place to publish this 930. This is why I arranged for a official photograph of a 930 (not my car!!). Don't get me wrong, no feelings against you or your car. I see the following solutions: (1) deletion as suggested before (2) amendment to the description of the picture and the article clarifying why this 930 does not look like a 930 - quite exhaustive for a wikipedia article and thus little favorable or (3) you open your own web page praising your 930 and post a link in this article. I hope you find a reasonable solution, soon (3?).

I'm so sorry you have a freaky perception of a 930. Maybe it's simply because you are a 'german freak'? Should your handle should be 'orthodox German freak', 'Porsche purist/freak' or just 'Porsche Proselyte'? "wrong detail" Maybe you have the honor of being a judge at a Porschefest but not with me - I have more experience in my watch pocket with Porsches than you posses in your entire infinitesimal being - that makes me an authority over you and as such I order you to go 'change your depends' so it will make you feel better about the 930 picture I posted :) 0waldo 14:51, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

P.S. to be fair I took your advice and revised the caption. 65.193.87.54 00:46, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Your argumentation is extremely unfair, waldo, and in particular the referral to 'German' is quite painful. If you feel the desire to enrichen the the world with your 930 and your accomplishments in customizing it, why don't you afford some webspace and build your own homepage instead of utilizing public webspace? German Autofreak 09:21, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Dear German Autofreak: please don't take my joking barbs too personal ;) All in bad sport my friend. I don't need a web site with my accomplishments, I am a walking accomplishment.  A 930 is a 930 just as a spade is a spade my friend.  I congratulate you on your wealthy knowledge concerning German autos and hence knight you 'German autofreak'.  In the meanwhile it does not really matter anyhow so have a good day ;) 0waldo 18:27, 17 November 2005 (UTC)  P.S. are you German?

This is not the place to start a personal discussion with you which I wouldn't care about anyways. Just one hint: apply some self-reflection, maybe this will open new horizonts for you. If you are not the owner of the green car or have trouble admitting it (your user page says you are into 930s) then just delete the part of the capation in italic. German Autofreak 08:48, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Dear German Auto Freak, As per your advice, I liberally applied a bottle of self-reflection and it works great, heck, I look like some kind of reflective parabolic mirror or something! 0waldo 19:35, 18 November 2005 (UTC) P.S. I'm really crushed that you did not want to have a personal discussion with me, I was truly looking forward to it :( Maybe next time!

Some revisions have been done in the info box regarding contemporary competitors. The Ferrari 308 and 348 (which has not been existing at the time of the 930) are rather a match for the naturally aspirated 911s. It is safe to compare the 930 with the fastest models available, even tough the 930 was cheaper than some Italien and British makes. The ZR-1 did not exist at the 930's time. It is a competitor to the 964 and 993.

Further I am not sure if the 930 was really discontinued between 1980 and 1986 or if there was a very detuned version with 265 hp available. Maybe somebody could check this out. I haven't found anything yet.

The marketing strade would rather fit in the 911 article(?). 84.160.136.88 22:48, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Reverted to my last saved version 0waldo 23:16, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Attn: 84.160.176.136 this must be "German autofreak" in disguise. Stop deleting picture of 930 or it will be necessary to report you as vandal. 0waldo 14:09, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Attn: 84.160.176.136 you have been warned several times. Please stop deleting the picture of the 930. If you wish to discuss then the place to do it is here. You are vandalizing this page - please stop. 24.214.176.87 14:34, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

STOP SPOILING THIS BEAUTIFUL PAGE WITH INACCURATE PICTURES. THE COMPLAINS BROUGHT UP HERE ARE ABSOLUTELY TRUE. WITH A FEW BODY PARTS ANYBODY CAN TURN ANY 911 OR EVEN A BEETLE INTO A "930". THIS HAS DONE 10.000 TIMES BEFORE!

Attn: 84.160.176.136 - it has been necessary to report you as a vandal. 0waldo 14:41, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

No, this is not vandalism. Bring it up as a content dispute if you like and learn better. 84.160.176.136 14:51, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Now, this is getting ridiculous. Bring up the content dispute if you dare. 84.160.176.136 14:53, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Attn: 84.160.176.136 You are acting in an unprofessional manner; stop deleting pictures that have been here before you appeared on the page. The pictures are applicable and should stay here. Leave it until you get consensus to remove. 0waldo 14:58, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

The arguments brought up are true! This is not a genuine 930. I have seen dozens of ordinary 911s converted to 930/964/965/993-looking cars. Tell us, why this picture should be included, after there are three very accurate and informative ones?? YOU are the person acting in an unprofessional manner. Tell us, are you Walter Muncaster???!!!! 84.160.176.136 15:02, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

OK! Here a few facts about this whatever dark green car:

1. 0waldo's user page: "\/\/alter /\/\uncaster here:"... "I restore vintage Porsche 930 Turbo cars and perform mechanical, metal and fiberglass work."

2. Descriptionj of the picture in issue: "(1976 Porsche 930 Turbo (restored by walter muncaster))"

3. This means, someone is insisting that his own car is being posted here. He is not able to prove what this car really is. It does not matter anyways. THAT CAR DOES NOT LOOK LIKE A 930!!

Walter! You are the one vandalizing this page!! Quite pathetic, how oyu are trying to publish your "work of art" You have a strange selfperception! 84.160.176.136 15:10, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Absolutely I restore vintage Porsche turbo cars. What is the particular point? Because I contributed the pictures to the article and I restored them they should not appear as valid 930 specimens? You have a particular problem with me personally and are taking the picture off because of that. It has nothing to do with non-applicability or validity; it has to do with your lack of professionalism. 0waldo 15:30, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

No, I don't know you and thus there are no personal issues. YOUR VISION IS BLURRED because you are proud of your "piece of art" (I don't think it is) and you are not the right person to judge about this car. Look! There are three pictures: front view, rear view and the seldom slantnose. This is all a user has to see to get hte idea about the 930. YOUR CAR DOES NOT LOOK LIKE A 930 AND A CLOSER LOOK AT THE PICTURE REVEALS THAT YOU ARE NOT VERY GOOD IN RESTORING THOSE CARS! (Sorry to tell you, man, but that is the case with this specimen.) Why don't you get this dispute resolved and commence with the adequate procedures? I might report you as a vandal. 84.160.176.136 15:36, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

There is no dispute: you are childish in your infantile actions and therefore are not even worth entertaining; leave the picture alone. You have no consensus on your 'loan gunman' approach. The picture is applicable, and was here LONG before you showed up here with your cavalier attitude repeatedly deleting it 0waldo 15:43, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

The selection of three pictures with the silver, the red and the black one in the commercial is quite good. No matter how long your car has been in there, there is no reason to maintain it. All said, Walter! Nobody except you is being childish. Why don't you contribute some content like I did? Whenever I get across that page I will check. People like you are truly pathetic and spoil the Wikipedia-spirit. 84.160.176.136 15:59, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Come out of hiding with your simplistic childlike antics; please don't offer your inadequate instructions to me: don't tell me about spirit of any kind - you are not my preacher and you obviously only posses a negative spirit. Your lack of professionalism is your major attribute and it's not worth bragging about. I suggest you let go of your German Autofreak insecurities and come out from hiding. I’m willing to face you one on one in any area you choose – my history shadows your obvious lack of accomplishments in life. Show me YOUR works – you’ve seen mine. 0waldo 16:08, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

You are boring and stop acting as if you were Ferry Porsche! Why should we believe you this was a 930? Appearently you don't know very much. I say it is a 911 SC heavily fiberglassed. 84.160.176.136 16:29, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Porsche Freak, stick to your delusions - it seems to work well for you as it is, quite obviously, your modus operandi so why change now? You cannot change reality by simply increasing the volume of your babblings – this is not television. I will not even address your non-issues as they are childish and are merely failed attempts to provide any rational arguments as to the picture inclusion and/or exclusion issue at hand. Your repeated failures to state any issues of merit merely exhibit your inadequacies as of person of substance that is able to debate fact; I therefore yield to you and your infantile tantrum style madness and wait for your next failed attempt at convincing me (or others) that the picture should be excluded from the article. 0waldo 17:43, 27 November 2005 (UTC) P.S. come out from hiding behind your mask.

Sure, Walter, you are the best and unconvincable. But why are you always coming up with that German and hiding stuff? Now, would you let me make my additions to the text and come back later with your stupid stuff. And don't delete the commercial. Don't do what you are asking me not to. Unbelievable... are you from Georgia as your IP suggests? 84.160.176.136 18:07, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

As previously stated: your actions are so childish; your non-response was exactly what I was expecting from you – you are so calculable, that is to say, your juvenile responses are so trivial that I could figure them (and your personality too) while dozing on a hammock in the afternoon sun. Your lack of professionalism and teenage actions shine through in every paragraph that you attempt to write. Your non-communication are the net result of your lack of experience and accumulation of talents. You are, at best, a master of trivial pursuit within the realm of absolutely nothing – so with that said, leave the picture of the 76 930 turbo intact as it pertains to the article in question. 0waldo 18:37, 27 November 2005 (UTC) P.S. If you would like I can arrange a meeting with you and the owner so you can personally inspect it - I’m sure that he would welcome your remarks about his car. I’m assuming that is why you are asking me my geographical location…

Porsche Freak: it just keeps getting deeper! Why am I not surprised? From Nuremburg in Germany you are! That explains your persistence while being on the losing side of a battle! 65.193.87.55 18:57, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with waldo; I say we leave the picture....

Be careful about the text, Waldoboy. It has been revised and improved and your stupid game sets it back to an old version. Destroying that text is TRU VANDALISM! 84.160.176.136 19:06, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

You're a big baby, Waldoboy. If anyone had anything personal against you, the red slantnose would have been deleted by me or the other critic. Well, I happen to be from Germany and whenever I can get to show you around in Zuffenhausen or Pfaffenhausen, well, that might help you a bit. 84.160.176.136 19:30, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

AGAIN for the discussion: the dark green Porsche is not representative for a 930. The facts brought up by German Autofreak are absolutely true. Regrettably, this has gotten personal. Nevertheless anyone knowing just a little about 930s knows that what we have there is something customized. It does not have anything to do with a genuine Porsche and if Waldo is in fact running a business in "restoring" 911 he could get sued over applying Porsche badges on that car. 84.160.176.136 19:35, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Nothing personal German AutoFreak; you are just iron-willed and stuck in a rut over being on the losing side of a battle. The picture is of a Porsche 76 930 Turbo Carrera and just because you don’t believe it does not change reality. In your mind you may be right but in the big planet you are wrong (again). The picture represents reality, and is, indeed a Porsche 930 – your vain blather cannot change that fact and hence should stay in the article. 0waldo 20:03, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

P.S. I've been to Germany (and all over the earth thank you) and I don't need your neo-tour guide assistance or your intellectually void attempts at intelligent communication either. ;) 0waldo 20:15, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

P.S.S. I suggest you quit implying that you are anyone other than user 'German Autofreak' - your grammatical errors and or superfluous dogma are identical twins. 24.214.53.12 21:43, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I say that the picture of user 0waldo stay in the page. George P. 199.227.163.136 21:53, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Note the anon user 84.160.176.136 is actually posing as someone else but in reality he is user German Autofreak... 65.193.87.55 21:57, 27 November 2005 (UTC)