Talk:Port Charlotte High School

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Some comments
Here are some comments that you might want to address. None of these comments are really important but they might be interesting things to add or do. I hope you find them helpful. Eóin (talk) 02:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Is the school a member of the Florida High School Athletic Association or an athletic conference?
 * Yes, I'll get more information about it. GO-PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 02:48, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There might be too many fair use images. Make sure all images "significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic" WP:NFCC
 * Maybe... or maybe not. The only fair use images in use are the school logo/seal, the school mascot logo, and the logos of some of the other organizations. GO-PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 02:48, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Could more information on graduation rates, standardized testing and student demographics be added? NCES has some info on demographics
 * That's a good idea, I actually thought about doing that before. GO-PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 02:48, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Could you rotate the first picture of the school? The tilt is very distracting.
 * I agree; that was something that I considered when I first uploaded the image in fact. However, I can't personally do anything with it because the only image editing software currently installed on my machine is MS Paint. I'll add this to the above to do list. GO-PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 02:48, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried tilting it. See Image:Port Charlotte High School edit.jpg. Eóin (talk) 21:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What exactly are the "Sunshine State Standards"?
 * I've created a stub that explains the system. GO-PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 02:48, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Normally notable people and alumni are placed at the end of school articles. Is there a reason for the change?
 * I've moved the sections to the bottom. GO-PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 02:48, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You might want to expand the lead a bit and separate into two paragraphs.
 * Agreed. GO-PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 02:48, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Has the school had any past success in sports?
 * It's been off and on really. The greatest challenge is finding references in non-biased, reliable sources for the information about the school's athletic history. GO-PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 02:48, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your comments. I have considered a great many of these issues, and I do plan to expand the article greatly, actually raising its quality to a GA or even (hopefully) an FA as soon as I get time to. When I first nominated this one for GA, I noticed quite a few other articles with a similar amount of content nominated, but many of them failed. GO-PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 20:24, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Some Comments
Fix issues such as Broad in coverage of the topic and WP Lead as mentioned both above and below.

It was interesting to note that the mascot was named and it stoppe there. |see athletics - see mascot. Without more content in the article the sentence in the lead makes no sense at all. The school's top rivals  Rivals in what??? see rivaltries The academics section talks about quantity of teachers but not of the classes themselves. It would be good to have an education section or expand the academics section to talk about courses that they teach for instance languages teachers can teach french russian, german, hungarian, cree etc etc... such as at see education. The lead offers new information which is not good. The lead is to whet peoples appetite, summarize the rest of the article not be new info. The lead introduces each section, and does not have new content in the lead itself. "The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article. ... Significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article...This should not be taken to exclude information from the lead, but to include it in both the lead and body: in a well-constructed article, the relative emphasis given to information in the lead will be reflected in the rest of the text. Do not tease the reader by hinting at startling facts without describing them."WP Lead With two sections about teachers should not something be told of students, without students there is no school....Arlington_Senior_High_School#Students|students]]?

SriMesh | talk  02:56, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm going to try to do something about this Saturday (or earlier if I find the time). GO-PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 02:49, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * These issues haven't (yet) been addressed, but they will be in the future. Eventually, I make this (and the articles of the other schools in the county) meet the criteria for an FA. GO-PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 21:46, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Plans for improvement
Move the information about Bowe to the "History" section under a subsection titled "Scandals" or something similar, and add information about other scandals relating to faculty. The idea is to keep it neutral, and get away from mentioning every single teacher that hits the news. Instead, the idea is to use a few as examples of some of the (somewhat) common things that have popped up. A similar idea applies to the teachers who have received awards. Useful information should be moved to the academic section (possibly with its own subsection), and instead of mentioning every teacher who has been awarded/recognized, we should have just a few examples of awards. Obviously, anything out of the ordinary (anything that merits national or international attention) should be mentioned. Usually, anything significant enough to mention independently should have its own article. Also, the schools athletic record probably deserves a mention. I'd love to get more images of the campus as well. PCHS-NJROTC (Messages) 19:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Athletics Improvement
I was studying the article and was wondering how this article has passed GA status with almost no information about the athletics department. Also, nearly every school of this size offers golf, yet I didn't see it listed on the page. Finally, I could create a state championships table for this article if I knew of all the state championships the school has won. Any comments or suggestions? JHawk88 (talk) 12:32, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the school's website would have information? The trouble is that it's proved difficult to find reliable third party references to make a well rounded section, and I've been trying to avoid using exclusively primary sources. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 22:24, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Some useful sites: PCHS athletic department, PCHS football. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 23:40, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 71.3.161.186, 2 May 2010
<Port Charlotte High School opened in 1981, not 1982. They graduated their first class in 1984 with the first class going grades 9-12 graduating in 1985.


 * Requests to edit semi-protected articles must be accompanied by reference(s) to reliable sources.  Chzz  ►  01:28, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Gallery
I fail to see a reason to have a gallery for this school. Specifically pictures of hallways, doors, and students milling around. That is not encyclopedic.-Fumitol (talk) 03:08, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a gallery of pictures of the campus, mostly. They wouldn't all fit elsewhere in the article, so that's why there's the gallery. The pictures of students were taken mostly as an example of the demographics. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 02:08, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi PCHS, Fumitol. WP:IG is a good yardstick to use in this situation. In other words, do the pictures add to the encyclopedic understanding of the subject? In this case, I'd expect an article about a secondary school to have the following images: one or two showing the building exterior, one or two showing historic photos of the school, and perhaps one to three showing unique events in the school's history (I'm thinking of Columbine or a US President speaking at the school).
 * To be specific, it seems inappropriate to have photos of current students (somewhat of a BLP issue, and hard to show they are representative of the school), of famous alumni (they have their own page for this), of specific classrooms (unless they are notable in their own right, which they aren't). In other words, I'm recommending that all of the gallery photos be removed, plus the "two girls" and "photo of the principal" in the main section. The one gallery photo that could be encyclopedic is the shot of the rotunda- but it needs some serious cleanup or reshooting so it isn't backlit.
 * Ultimately, this is what commonscat-inline is for. It's a great way to link to extra commons photos. I'd strongly recommend budding phtoographers take photos of articles missing photos, rather than adding more photos to the article or Wikimedia Commons for this school. I've gone hunting for photos in my state, perhaps 80% of articles are missing photos. tedder (talk) 03:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I hope you bought replacement batteries for your camera! ... I would definitely remove a vast majority of these pictures ... particularly of the current principal and any that have students as the focus. Pictures of the hallways are also not particularly helpful (IMO) of illustrating the school. 1-2 of the main parts of the buildings exterior ... maybe 1-2 of key parts/unique parts of the school (library, gym, the TV studio??). LonelyBeacon (talk) 03:33, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Just adding my comments from the school wikiproject talk page. I also added that if images are properly placed within the article in appropriate sections, there is no need for a gallery in the article that isn't served by a link to the Commons category.
 * Wow that's a lot of pictures. Galleries for most articles are discouraged.  The only time galleries are appropriate within an article are when there are many important examples of a subject, like a particular art or fashion style.  Instead, I would recommend creating the category "Port Charlotte High School" on the Commons and placing all pictures there.  Then, at the bottom of the Wikipedia article, perhaps in the "See also" or "references" section, place  and it will give you a small box directing readers to the gallery images.  As it stands now, the gallery dominates the article and most of the pictures aren't really appropriate for an encyclopedic article.
 * As for the images themselves, I would avoid adding pictures of students unless absolutely necessary, especially ones like "two typical girls" ("typical" is a POV term anyway...it tells us nothing about the school). Focus on the building and even then, just upload pictures of the most notable and unique features of the building to give the reader a general idea of what the school is like.  So no, you don't need 5 views of the library and 4 views of the NJROTC classroom or views of each subject classroom or 10 views of the gym or a hallway.  Be sure to look at the Image use policy, particularly the section on galleries.  --JonRidinger (talk) 15:07, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I figured some of these would be excessive; I uploaded them all however for the community to provide input. Probably some of these could be useful in other parts of Wikipedia, for example, Student, Locker, Head teacher, library, television studio, teenager, Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps, etc., which was something I considered when taking all of these  PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages) 15:52, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, PCHS-NJROTC, but I have to agree with Fumitol, LonelyBeacon, and JonRidinger  on this. The Gallery is quite excessive, to the point of triviality. I doubt very much this would pass a Good Article reassessment.   JGHowes   talk  15:59, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * In addition to what JonRidinger said, you can create galleries as well as categories on Commons where needed, and the former is linked to the article using . CT Cooper · &#32;talk 17:41, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20061004145152/http://www.ccps.k12.fl.us/Schools/PCHS/ROTC_site/awards.htm to http://www.ccps.k12.fl.us/schools/PCHS/ROTC_site/awards.htm

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External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on Port Charlotte High School. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070509004731/http://www.ccps.k12.fl.us/highSchools.cfm?PageID=PCH to http://www.ccps.k12.fl.us/highSchools.cfm?PageID=PCH
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081010182709/http://www.nbc-2.com:80/Football/PortCharlotte.shtml to http://www.nbc-2.com/Football/PortCharlotte.shtml
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20061004145232/http://www.ccps.k12.fl.us/Schools/PCHS/ROTC_site/Instructors.htm to http://www.ccps.k12.fl.us/schools/PCHS/ROTC_site/Instructors.htm

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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100811114946/http://www.usnews.com/listings/high-schools/florida/port_charlotte_high_school to http://www.usnews.com/listings/high-schools/florida/port_charlotte_high_school
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080820233547/http://pch.ccps.k12.fl.us/staff1 to http://pch.ccps.k12.fl.us/staff1
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100107160133/http://portcharlottehigh.net/Documents/Bell%20Schedule%20_WORD_.pdf to http://www.portcharlottehigh.net/Documents/Bell%20Schedule%20_WORD_.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070608161841/http://www.fldoe.org/successstories/2004/04-05.asp to http://www.fldoe.org/successstories/2004/04-05.asp
 * Added tag to http://www.wyoung.org/acad_profile.jsp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080828173146/http://www.portcharlottehigh.net/Activities/index.html to http://www.portcharlottehigh.net/Activities/index.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110726140415/http://www.londonparade.co.uk/history/participants/details.asp?id=85 to http://www.londonparade.co.uk/history/participants/details.asp?id=85
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Gay-Straight Alliance is Active at PCHS
I don't understand why the club isn't listed on the school's website and I'm not sure where to find proof of this. I've searched for evidence in news articles but all I can find about the club and the school is the initial drama surrounding it when it originally came to the school. I'm a student at the school and there are many posters advertising the club. Anyone have any tips on how to find evidence?--RaskBunzzz (talk) 04:38, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Good job updating that. I think they literally restarted that right after I wrote the section, likely to avoid being seen as anti-LGBT. (I kinda wish I wouldn't have written the section... Although I never laughed at any of them as that would be mean, I was one of the students that was against the club, and that position hasn't changed. But just so this doesn't go into an off-topic mess as to why, I don't hate anybody, I'm not afraid of anybody, and I certainly do NOT advocate being cruel to anybody. I'm part of the religious right (specifically, I am an Independent Baptist), a group misunderstood by much of the outside world, increasingly so thanks to idiotic groups like Westboro). PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 01:13, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

2004 Hurricanes
I know the article says "Charley, Frances, and Ivan" but that author was in error. School was closed for Hurricane Jeanne, not Ivan. Hurricane Ivan hit the western panhandle and was very far away from Charlotte County when it passed by in the gulf. It did make a loop and reentered on the Atlantic Coast, but by then it was a very weak tropical depression. Second article does mention schools are reopening after Hurricane Jeanne. 50.88.229.139 (talk) 06:59, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * My bad. Raskuly (talk) 04:09, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Move Westboro Baptist incident to history section
While other extracurricular activities are given their own section because of accomplishments, the GSA's section is nearly all about the Westboro Baptist Church coming to the school and causing it to be temporarily shuttered. I think it would be better to move this dark incident to the "history" section, while still noting that the club is now active at the school. Raskuly (talk) 23:38, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The reason for the emphasis is because the fact that WBC protested it and it disappeared shortly after is the only real reason it's noteworthy. Schools all over the place have GSA, and there's not much else about this particular GSA floating around in reliable sources. One could argue the same about the sports, ROTC, the band, etc, but those also get mentioned due to coverage in reliable sources and awards they have received. Also, it wasn't a temporary disbandment, it's more like there was a temporary revival of it, but to my knowledge it is gone again due to current FLDOE policies on LGBT in schools. At any rate, there's no mention of it on the school site anymore. One thing that's on the back of my mind is to reach out to a connection I have in administration at Charlotte County Public Schools who might know of reliable sources (and possibly even create some primary sources) that can be used to bring the three school articles to FA status, the issue for me is time. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 00:10, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This shows the GSA still being active. It is on the second page. Looking at the clubs with their own sections again, the band, Model United Nations, & NJROTC have accomplishments to their name while again, the section on GSA is primarily about its temporary disbandment. I guess the question could be asked if these accomplishments by the other clubs are noteworthy enough to be given their own subsections, but if that is something you think should be debated then I think it should go in its own section on the talk page. Raskuly (talk) 04:06, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * So then it is active again... Oddly, I think this was recreated as a result of the mention on Wikipedia, as in someone read about the scandal on here and decided to recreate it... I hate to be blunt about it, but the only news (and therefore the only mention on Wikipedia) that a GSA is going to generate in the current political climate

is going to be bad news, except now it's more likely to be a group like Moms for Liberty protesting. Argh, I wish I would have never mentioned it in the article, I created a reason for people to fight (which is ironic because the traditional idea behind GSA, as I understand, was to encourage people to NOT clash). ;) If you remove the mention I wouldn't be offended. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 15:21, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't want to remove the mention of the 2005 GSA incident, I just want to move it to the "History" section. I think it is notable that a hate group came to the school and caused trouble, but the incident being the only reason it is being mentioned alongside the extended sections about the other clubs seems odd to me, that is all. I even expanded it earlier to note that someone with a Wikipedia page, Asher Levine, was the leader of the GSA at the time. Raskuly (talk) 05:36, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I reverted the removal but put moved it as proposed. I titled the section "Westboro Baptist Church protest" instead of just "hate group protest" because there's hundreds of hate groups out there, most of which have zero notability, but WBC is well known. By the way, I know this is off-topic but I'm almost certain Fred Phelps is in hell, and those losers have no business calling themselves "baptist." People may believe what they wish, but I believe he is there alongside Hitler and a lot of Ku Klux Klan members, miserably burning for eternity. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 13:22, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

COVID effect on the 2021 graduation ceremony
I appreciate all of the effort put into this article recently, but am I missing something in the provided source regarding the 2021 graduation ceremony? That source says nothing about the graduation ceremony being held at the sports park due to COVID, but it does mention the virtual graduation that happened the year prior due to COVID. The ceremony was traditionally held at Lee Civic Center in Fort Myers, it seems to me the sports park is a more ideal location anyway as it is in Port Charlotte not far from the school (I distinctly remember opining about the graduation being held down there when I graduated). PCHS-NJROTC (Messages)Have a blessed day. 00:15, 30 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I reworded it to better fit the circumstances. I could've sworn that the source previously stated that it was directly because of the COVID-19 pandemic--and that was certainly the vibe I got while graduating especially given the limited guests and outdoor setting--so instead I've mentioned it was held in spite of the pandemic and a reversal from the previous year's virtual graduation.
 * Also, it looks as if the class of 2022 also graduated at Charlotte Sports Park while the class of 2023 graduated at Charlotte Harbor Event Center in Punta Gorda. I know Wikipedia is not for speculation, but between us I do believe the change in venue from 2022 to 2023 is related to the ending of pandemic restrictions. Raskuly (talk) 03:58, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The move from the sports park to the Charlotte Harbor Event Center is more than likely a result of the sports park being badly damaged by Hurricane Ian. Outdoor graduations aren't unusual, Venice and North Port High School have a long tradition of having their graduation ceremonies on the school football field. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 15:23, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I completely forgot about the damage to the sports park probably because I hardly go to that part of town, but I was just sharing that with you because you're a local. But since you do mention it, it does look like the Charlotte Harbor Event Center got off pretty well from Ian, while as you probably know much of Fort Myers didn't. So I'd have to find information saying that it was originally going to be held at the sports park but then it wasn't because of Ian, but I don't think that matters.
 * Like I said, I edited the section to just talk about how it was a return to in-person graduation following the 2020 virtual graduations. Raskuly (talk) 05:40, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Fort Myers really got hit hard, my girlfriend lives there. But she did okay through it. I was a main cook for an elementary school in North Port when it happened (I do something else now for the same employer now, more $$$) and because that school was a shelter I had to work during the hurricane. That was an interesting experience to say the least. Englewood and North Port also got hit hard, but not as bad as Lee County. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 13:25, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

2008 sexual assault charges
I was curious as to what other's thoughts would be on including mention of the 2008 sexual assault charges on PCHS band instructor Dale Bowe. As part of my efforts to dig into PCHS history I discovered this incident. I'm unsure if the case was ever closed (or at least publicly) since Bowe committed suicide before his first court appearance. This also counts against including the incident because it might be distasteful to include mention of sexual assault charges against a deceased man who may or may not have committed the crime. Raskuly (talk) 18:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Generally, these kinds of events aren't that unique to a given school (or any organization) and their occurrence is not a major event in the overall study of the school's history unless it led to some kind of major change like an unusual policy, the naming of a room (like a memorial), or something similar, or of the event itself was notable. It's also about looking at it as a matter of appropriate content and whether including it falls within the scope of the article, and if so, then making sure it's properly sourced. Whether including it is "distasteful" is a matter of perspective and really shouldn't be a factor in choosing to include it or not. In other words, context matters. In this case, I don't think it really helps the reader have a better understanding of the school to mention it. The history section should focus on the development of the school itself and the main events that have shaped its current identity: creation, new buildings and additions, renovations, programs, etc. Looking at the history section right now, while it is well-sourced, quite a bit is trivial since much of it focuses on details of recent events that were not unique to the school, particularly the mentions of COVID and Hurricane Ian which both contain several details about the general area rather than the school itself. Of course those events should be mentioned, but details about them need to have a purpose related to the topic, which is the school. --JonRidinger (talk) 19:17, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I appreciate the input and I do agree that more work should be done to tie the COVID-19 pandemic and Hurricane Ian directly to the school. Currently, I'd be on board removing mention of the pandemic from the history section all-together as there was nothing that I know of that was unique about the pandemic's effects on the school. I'd still want to include the first in-person graduation after the pandemic in some capacity since it was the first high school in the county to do it, though at the very least the picture of the graduation (which full disclosure--I took) could remain as a decent addition to the article.
 * As for Ian, I tried to tie it in better to the school specifically by mentioning the effects on the football team but it could still be improved and expanded upon. Raskuly (talk) 20:14, 4 April 2024 (UTC)