Talk:Posen Conference

this article seems weak in 2 ways. obviously, this was written by the person who was writing up the Speer article (which is fine and understandable, but this article is a stub as a result):

1. Speer is featured too prominently. That part belongs with Speer, or as a footnote to a much more beefed up article about the Posen Conference.

2. The Posen Conference itself is not detailed. This paraphrasal: "Himmler spelled out clearly to his audience the mass-murder of the Jews, its implications for everyone present, and its long-term significance for Germany." What exactly does this mean? What did he say? Presumably, he thought the long term significance would be good for Germany. Did he really have a good sense of what the future would hold if Germany were defeated? The article doesn't say, it just offers a confusing paraphrasal which is simply designed to support the Speer commentary, which if it turns out that Speer didn't play much of a role, is not much of a basis for an article.

About Speer: Gita Sereny in her book ´Speer his battle with the thruth´ sets questions about Speer leaving the conference.


 * I wrote a new article regarding Himmler's Posen speech. I edited this article, so there is a direct link to the new article. OotHb 14:45 (GMT +1) Dez 18 2005

Participants hitherto (partially) uninformed?
as meaning that some of those present were not fully aware of the extent of Holocaust (or its planned implementation)? The article states that Himmler gave his speech:

"…in order to motivate everyone present to fight harder for victory, as they would not be able to claim ignorance of war crimes and Nazi atrocities should Germany be defeated."

So is there any documentary evidence which clarifies to what extent was Himmler giving out new information, versus merely formally establishing on the record the participation and knowledge of those present? Seems like it would be interesting in terms of answering "who knew what and when"-type questions. Historian932 (talk) 11:18, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


 * http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posener_Reden#Adressaten.2C_Anlass_und_Zweck - Second Paragraph
 * "Nur etwa zwei Minuten der Rede befassten sich mit den Judenmorden. Dabei setzte Himmler die Erfahrungen seiner Zuhörer mit Massenerschießungen, Ghettoauflösungen und Vernichtungslagern beziehungsweise ihre Kenntnis davon voraus. Die Rede sollte bereits verübte Verbrechen rechtfertigen und die Hörer auf deren „höheren Zweck“ einschwören. [...]"
 * to summarize: only 2 minutes of the conference times were dedicated to the Jew extermination; Himmler could expect knowledge in the audience about mass killings, ghetto dissolutions (Operation Reinhard !!) and extermination camps, so only a justification and motivation was intended. .... Guidod (talk) 20:15, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal

 * Strongly oppose: Simply on the basis that even though there is an association, Posen Conference and Posen speeches are not the same entity. I'm rather surprised I have to point this out. The Posen Conference, while indeed encompassing the speech Himmler made on October 6, is entirely separate from the speech Himmler made 2 days earlier to a completely different audience. Furthermore, Himmler's speech on October 6 was just one item at the Posen Conference - additional features of that conference would be largely irrelevant in an article about Himmler's speeches, but entirely pertinent in an article about said conference, hence the need for 2 articles. WilliamH (talk) 12:14, 19 July 2009 (UTC)