Talk:Postmodern Jukebox

Untitled
If you spot significant defects in the Postmodern Jukebox article, the following editors with additional subject knowledge can be contacted. The article is likely watchlisted, but you can also use with your comments here if you don't get a response within 24 hours.
 * 009o9Disclosure(Talk) 02:53, 11 May 2016 (UTC) - I have no conflict of interest involving the subject(s) of this article.
 * Rcul4u998 (talk) 05:19, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Vandalism rollback
I apologize to the other interested editors, we have a vandal here now who is stalking me through my edit summaries. The editor is taking out frustrations now on my voluntary contributions to the PMJ article. I consider the editor's actions stalking and WP:SNEAKY vandalism.

Pinging other contributing editors. Sorry again for the disruption. 009o9Disclosure(Talk) 04:18, 6 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Claims of stalking seconded. It seems to me that the vandal is utilizing their own opinion on necessary vs. non-necessary content as a basis for deletion without citing specific guidelines that warrant the content to be deleted. Lists of News Coverage provide evidence for WP:Notability, which help warrant its inclusion as an article in the first place, and the quote in the American Idol section provides background for the entire section as a whole, i.e. why featuring AI cast-offs is an important aspect of the band and its brand. Rcul4u998 (talk) 04:44, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is a trick that deletionists use to break down an article. Delete the references that go toward notability and then nominate for deletion. Thanks, I've reverted twice, I can't do it again for 24 hours without a probable trip to the editing warring discussions.  Rcul4u998 is this article on your watchlist?009o9Disclosure(Talk) 05:06, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * A false accusation of vandalism doesn't work. The whole quote is WP:UNDUE. Please also see this COIN discussion for reference. 009o9 is taking this personally. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 05:10, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh wow, did I just see a WP:TAGTEAM? --Lemongirl942 (talk) 05:24, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * No, you are actually witnessing WP:Consensus and WP:STEWARDSHIP, which are both policy unlike the essay you are citing.009o9Disclosure(Talk) 06:31, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I have never even seen or heard of before I was pinged here. I'm coming into this as a neutral third party, and I used my best judgment and the information I was provided to support WP:Concensus. The edits  made gave no specific reason for deletion, other than personal opinion, and therefore looked like vandalism, especially in the context 009o9 gave, which implied a history of stalking. I don't want to get in the middle of an edit war, this has nothing to do with me. I was just giving my opinion on what I think is best to maintain the quality of the article. Rcul4u998 (talk) 15:34, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I pinged you because you had made a substantial edit to the article that I believe was affected. I've been in touch with one of the editors here, but had forgotten the username, so I pinged both. A more senior editor has entered the debate, I'm presuming the contention has been resolved, I have incident written up and ready for ANI should it continue. I appreciate your input on the matter. 009o9Disclosure(Talk) 17:38, 6 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The accusation of WP:STALKING is a separate issue. I looked at the changes made by Lemongirl942 and judged them suitable. For instance, I don't think we need to name in the lead section the periodicals that have written about PMJ. That arrangement looked a bit desperate, like the notability of PMJ is in question (it isn't.) I see that Jayron32 made the same assessment, basing subsequent article work on the version by Lemongirl942. Binksternet (talk) 00:23, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * ,, Currently, PMJ's notability is not in question, but the atmosphere at AfD is heading towards a consensus that every reference must go to notability. It really doesn't matter what the guidelines say, or how good your argument is, AfD has turned into good old boy's democracy and I expect it to get worse not better.  As the article stands, the lede is open to citation needed tags for every claim. I'm going to go through the deleted citations for mentions of the Band's view counts to at least support that statement.  Additionally, I haven't found any secondary content that supports the lede's second paragraph and this is currently PMJ's third EU tour, but the unsourced section adds nothing to the article, especially when flagged by a bot. I'm likely to prune both.009o9Disclosure(Talk) 04:19, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Please don't reshape the article to adjust to the trend you are describing. Instead, articles should follow longstanding consensus that WP:SECONDARY sources are vitally important but primary and tertiary sources are allowed. Binksternet (talk) 04:41, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Not looking to reshape the article just add a few of the better cites back in to support the viewcounts, establish notability in the lede so the deletionists move on. I'll also check to see If they can support the second paragraph. I reviewed some of your history in AfD, thanks, you've saved some good content along the way. I'm just interested in avoiding the time suck of going through an unjustified AfD -- there's really no penalty for egregious nominations.009o9Disclosure(Talk) 07:27, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks like Rcul4u998 is working on adding references and doing a cleanup. I'll revisit when things quiet down. 009o9Disclosure(Talk) 07:41, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Robyn Adele Anderson
This content was removed by Writer1977, Anderson is the person responsible for the first couple of viral videos and has the longest history with the band. Other my clumsy wording, is there something wrong with this copy? Seems like Anderson's prominence is WP:DUE with over a third of the band's viewcount. The edit also completely removes the band's Tedx conference reference.

Although Anderson's background was geared more toward Broadway show tunes, she found that she was also adept at arranging pop music lyrics, and even including text-messages from random audience member's cell phones, for the jazz genre. Anderson tours with PMJ on a part-time basis as her acting and theater commitments allow. As of April 1, 2016, Anderson featured music video view-counts total 140 million of the 447 million on the Postmodern Jukebox YouTube Channel.

P.S. Bradlee arranges the music, but in a lot of cases and with Anderson, the vocalists arrange the lyrics.009o9Disclosure(Talk) 08:25, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I think Anderson should be included in some capacity. I know a lot of people recognize her for being one of the original prominent singers for the band, and there is always excitement when she returns to the channel. I believe the popularity of her covers, her popularity within the band, and her view counts warrant her inclusion.Rcul4u998 (talk) 13:59, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Her information could perhaps be added the "Guest Vocalists" section, either before or after the paragraph about American Idol alum.Rcul4u998 (talk) 14:07, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The content was originally included at the end of the first paragraph in 2012-present section. Some of the content might be a better fit in Guest vocalists, it was actually her idea to bring in more vocalists. Thanks for your edits last night, I wonder if had to recreate any refs that were already included before? One nice thing about having them aliased, is that a pruning becomes is a two step process, makes them easier to recover from the edit summaries. I'll try to alias your new refs, to make them reusable and move them to the refs= section when I find time.  009o9Disclosure(Talk) 15:58, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

As written now, she just suddenly appears as a prominent member with no explanation of how or when she joined the ensemble. Some kind of verbiage is needed to cover the transition. --Eliyahu S Talk 16:50, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Stewardship
I added a horizontal infobox to the header concerning WP:STEWARDSHIP, with over 60 artists and growing PMJ is a complicated topic. It also gives me a place to state that I am not being paid here and have no COI. Maybe this will help with drive-by tagging. Feel free to add your signature if you like. 009o9Disclosure(Talk) 02:58, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Too much like an advertisement?
The section "Each week, Postmodern Jukebox puts out a new video on YouTube. [etc]" reads to me more like something from PMJ themselves rather than an encyclopedia. I do not believe any malice is involved, it just needs to be restructured to meet encyclopedia standards. 50.45.201.176 (talk) 19:10, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Got some singers and video dates wrong
Correction: My Hero	October 12, 2017	Foo Fighters	Chloe Feoranzo[45] Smells Like Teen Spirit	October 19, 2017	Nirvana	Alisan Porter[46] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.175.72.194 (talk) 06:04, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Red Dead Redemption 2 Soundtrack
I cannot believe this isn't mentioned here at all, not in the PMJ article, not on Scott Bradlee's page nor within the game article itself but PMJ contributed two songs to the RDR2 Soundtrack and even had a cameo in person as musical performers in the theatre of St. Denis where their songs are featured. The artists themselves put out this info on their Facebook accounts around the time of the game's release and considering the world wide audience the game has reached, this should definitely be mentioned on the artist's pages. 2001:16B8:667B:E900:6C5B:D297:986A:59BB (talk) 14:14, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Controversies section to mention issues raised regarding black-life-matters complaints
It seems that in mid 2020, issues were raised against PMJ from previous performers regarding allegation of mistreatment from the complainers point of view.

1. An open letter was issues https://aristake.com/black-at-postmodern-jukebox/ https://bleumag.com/2020/07/22/blackatpmj-collective-calls-out-postmodern-jukebox-in-an-open-letter/

2. An Instragram page was formed under the tag #blackatpmj to coordinate those efforts https://www.instagram.com/blackatpmj/

3. Some artists posted their view and reports on the matter https://www.instagram.com/p/CBvvE2Mgora/

I think maybe that the existences of those issues - without regarding their correctness or not - should be considered be mentioned in some way in a "controversies" section of the PMJ article, same as other companies have "controversies" section on their page. Folenarrow (talk) 23:38, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

PMJ Manor?
We see the ensemble starting out making videos in a basement and then less than a decade later streaming videos from a "Manor". I don't want to create a redlink, but a note in a ref would be appropriate IMO. Whatever source mentioned the Manor should have at least a bit more information like what city or state it's in, etc. --Eliyahu S Talk 17:06, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Google took me to Condran, Ed (2018-02-18). "Postmodern Jukebox gives Beyoncé, Miley Cyrus and even Nirvana a very vintage twist". Raleigh News & Observer. Article updated. --Northernhenge (talk) 19:54, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Shortening the lists of names
The blue links in the guest musicians section are a small minority of all the names listed. From a quick cull, it looks like just these: What does everyone think about just keeping the blue links and deleting the rest? I suggest doing the same for the guest vocalists – the impact there would be smaller as most of them have their own articles. --Northernhenge (talk) 18:56, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Cynthia Sayer
 * Dave Koz
 * Gunhild Carling
 * Tim Kubart
 * Tosin Abasi
 * Lists shortened to retain those with blue links and/or refs. See Manual%20of%20Style/Lists%23Adding%20individual%20items%20to%20a%20list, especially that “all individual items on the list must follow Wikipedia's content policies” --Northernhenge (talk) 21:03, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Effie Passero
Loved her performance of Creep with PMJ. 69.244.87.139 (talk) 02:35, 4 December 2023 (UTC)