Talk:Pot pie/Archive 1

Untitled
This article is disappointing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:F21:B370:99D6:264C:70F9:A588 (talk) 02:59, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Pennsylvania Dutch region
In the Pennsylvania Dutch region to the funtamentable side of cooking with your family. it is not served in a pie form at all. But more of a stew form. It usually a combination of chicken or ham or beef, noodles (from scratch, and they're a noodle made of a basic pie crust recipie), potatos, and a healthy stock of an onion and celery and parsley. Boullion is used to get more of a flavor but if done right it's not needed.--153.25.87.34 13:57, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In the Pennsylvania the pot pie served in stew form is often referred to as slippery pot pie. Due to many people moving into Pennsylvania from other states, confusion arises in the definition of pot pie. Many not native to Pennsylvania define pot pie as a savory pie with a crust, while those born in Pennsylvania will refer to pot pie as the thick stew with noodles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beyondthepalemoon (talk • contribs) 19:52, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Merging of Pork pie
I don't know about the other types of pies, but a pork pie is a very distinctive type of pie which certainly seems to deserve its own article. So - oppose. Richard W.M. Jones 20:48, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Oppose from me too. Not just Pork Pie but all the distinctive pies. It would be like merging all the US Beer Brand articles, or all the articles related to milk based foods. Just because the same English word is used as part of the name, doesn't make the culturally and historically distinct foods similar enough to belong in a meaningful single artcle. The Australian meat pie is culturally significant, the Corned beef pie lays in a pastry shell, but the content is nothing like these weird Pot Pie things. Alex Law 05:11, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Oppose for same reasons. The cultural distinctions should be reflected.


 * Are you guys saying that cultural distintions cannot be preserved on a merged page? Is it not possible that such distinctions could in fact be better highlighted on a merged page? (Actually, exactly what part of this article deals with cultural distinctions? That the crust is flakier?) Ewlyahoocom 11:36, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * A pork pie and a "pot pie" (the latter term wouldn't even be recognised by most British people) are distinct and different foods. Would we have A page describing all the world's lagers for instance?  Perhaps one main article about pies, called pie, linking to specific articles about all the different types of pie in the world. Richard W.M. Jones 12:27, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't get hung up on the terminology. My preference is to merge all these together into a page called Meat pie -- but that currently redirects to Australian meat pie. As for lagers, I don't know: Are there 2 pages of significant length and 10 stubs? Yeah, I'd probably want to merge that. Ewlyahoocom 15:16, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd have to say that cultural distinctions would be difficult to preserve in A page, and millions of rediects to a huge uninformative page aren't very helpful. Also when you consider wikipedia's preferences on article length. Meat pies are varied things, and are often deeply bound with cultural identities in Australia and the UK. Alex Law 15:25, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

On cultural distinctions, the existance of a seperate article for each ethnicity's type is inevitable. Fold them all in, and partisans will unfold them, if only so that they can point to a wikipedia article for "their" ethnic food. As for flakiness of pastry, my recollection of Pork Pies is that the pasty isn't flakey at all. One of the big problems is that pie (and related words like tart and flan and pastie) are all highly dialect dependant. For example many Americans are boggled by the idea of a pie that isn't a dessert food. Alex Law 15:30, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the mergefrom|to Pork pie, and this is my reasoning. While I could throw together a nice steak and kidney pie for you in a couple of hours, a pork pie is an entirely different animal. It is constructed in several stages, with a complex pork filling, separate lid and jelly. http://www.blogjam.com/2005/04/17/pork-pie/ shows pictures. The process happens over at least a day (because you need to cook it for a long time and then leave it overnight to cool). Once constructed, the pie can be carried around in your pocket without any additional packaging (quite unlike a steak and kidney pie). In addition, an overview page for all pies already exists - it's called pie, and it links to the different types of pie. "Pot pie" is a term which is never used in the UK as far as I'm aware. I suggest the other merges be removed too. Richard W.M. Jones 17:11, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Corned beef pie
Emboldened by Richard W.M. Jones above (at 17:11, 10 February 2006 (UTC)) on Pork Pies, I have removed the mergefrom|to for Corned beef pie. A CBP is filled not with a mix of meat and gravy or a stewlike material, but a bed of mashed potaties with corned beef (especially the tinned kind) and sometimes other ingredients. Apart from being in a piecrust, it is nothing like a Pot pie (whatever that is, especially considering the comment about Pot pies being made with no crust at all). Alex Law 13:10, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Merging of "steak and kidney pie"
Oppose Recognisability - most Brits don't use the term pot pie. When they do, it is in reference to a dish more like thick chunky soup. (I've just made myself feel rather hungry). --UrbaneLegend 03:14, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Oppose I'd never heard the term Pot Pie in Australia at all, but steak and kidney pie is a well known food (no-one ever seems to eat them, but everyone has heard of them). Alex Law 06:22, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Oppose - I both recognise the term "steak and kidney pie" and eat them! Never heard of "pot pie" outside this discussion though. Richard W.M. Jones 10:36, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Stop Merging the articles. Pot Pies are NOT steak and Kidney pies. Stop MErging, they deserve their own place!

Oppose - one is delicious and the other is not! 74.9.150.201 (talk) 04:03, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Another merge?
How about Chicken pot pie?--Rayc 04:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge. Kukini 23:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge. Scoutersig 01:04, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge. This one is actually apropriate. ZPS102 19:22, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

POV on Pasty?
Not sure enough to just remove it, but two things with the sentence comparing pies to pasties peaked my interest.

(1) Isn't recently modern a bit vague?

(2) Are you really required to discard a piece of pasty pastry just because it's crunchy? I tend to enjoy crunchy baked pastry in things like pasties, well cooked meat-pies and the like and have never felt obliged to throw part of one away just because it's a bit harder than the rest.

Or am I just picking at nits? Ozlucien 00:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Some People
Someone who has put "Hi Nick!!!!! your me hero" has been removed from this page and the protect-tag was put on and this seems to be the first time someone has messed up this page!

Origins
Is the pot pie an American, an Australian or a British recipe? ICE77 (talk) 06:52, 9 February 2010 (UTC)


 * It's an American variation of a standard British meat pie. Gymnophoria (talk) 22:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Pan pie
It's made in a pan, not a pot.. or is this like how a 'saucepan' is clearly a pot? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.11.36.169 (talk) 13:16, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Is this an American dish?
Reverted twice now of an insert saying that this dish is America. However, I do not think that this is accurate, but if anybody has any sources as to the origin country of this dish I think that it would improve article quality. Phearson (talk) 21:16, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The dish is not American but I think the term "pot pie" is, as are the fine distinctions relating to crust material, absence of bottom crust etc. which define it. In the UK, the "pot pie" described in the article would simply be called a "pie", which can mean single or double-crust, sweet or savoury, any type of pastry on top or bottom (flaky is rare on the bottom but does not disqualify from "pie" status), and even some things with no pastry at all (e.g. shepherd's pie). Would it be worth changing the wording slightly to indicate that these distinctions are not recognised everywhere? (too sleepy to think of good wording Eventually). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.208.43.14 (talk) 22:19, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Misleading Photo
The article states: "a pot pie is stewed in a pot on top of the stove rather than baked. It lacks a crust." and yet the main picture is of a baked pie with a crust. This makes no sense.216.75.239.226 (talk) 01:35, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the image is actually of a chicken MEAT PIE rather than a pot pie. I believe the photographer has fallen for the 'Many food manufacturers and restaurants mistakenly mislabel meat and vegetable pie (e.g., chicken) as "pot pie" for marketing purposes to evoke a homemade feel for their food products.'Deonyi (talk) 11:43, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

no, the picture is of an actual pot pie. every recipe, every pot pie you'll find in stores and restaurants are all the same thing. a pie. pot pies = meat pies. in fact, saying that pot pies are are a misconception is stupid in and of itself, they're not stews. what the article is describing is stew. pie is a very easy to understand item. it can't be a pie, unless it's a pie. a stew is not a pie. 50.45.121.99 (talk)joe

Actually, the term "pot pie" derived originally from Bott Boi, which is cooked in a pot. For hundreds of years, people of German ancestry having been cooking pot pie in a pot, on top of a stove, hence the name 'pot pie'. It is made with cut up pieces of dough, chicken, potatoes, onions (sometimes carrots) and broth, the same ingredients as meat pies, but not cooked in an oven in a pie plate. What people have commercially decided (for marketing purposes) as pot pie is actually a chicken pie. A pie, is made with a crust. It is baked in a pie plate, not a pot. A pie plate is not a pot. Try cooking a crusted pie in a pot. The meat pie - beef, chicken, etc - in the picture is made with a crust - either double or single - and is of British origin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:184:100:ADF3:915A:9860:B16:A2F0 (talk) 10:55, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

What is a pot pie?
This article is an utter mess, after reading it a few times I have utterly no idea what constitutes a pot pie. Take for example the second paragraph:

'Often confused with pie, a type of baked savory pie with a bottom and top completely encased by flaky crusts and baked inside a pie tin to support its shape, a pot pie is stewed in a pot on top of the stove rather than baked. It lacks a crust.'

So, it isn't a pie. It is basically just a stewed meat dish. However the picture shows a traditional, typical pie. Then the third paragraph states that the difference between American and British/Australian (pot) pies is that the non-American ones have bodies 'made from heavier, more mechanically stable shortcrust, hot water crust or similar pastry'. The wording of this paragraph implies the American pot pie does indeed have some flaky pastry, just that its body isn't made from shortcrust or hot water crust.

And, further supporting the idea that pot pies in America do have pastry, under variations it states:

'Some American pie variations have no bottom crust and are similar to a baked casserole (or chicken and dumplings) unlike a traditional meat pie.'

The key word here being some. This heavily implies that some variations do in fact have bottom crusts, further confusing the matter.

I feel the introduction should be cut down and in the body there should be a major section discussing pastry and whether or not it is used in a pot pie. At the moment what I know about a pot pie is that it is meat, gravy and vegetables, occasionally with noodles, and occasionally with puff pastry, either encased or topped, but never with non-flaky pastry, though occasionally with biscuits/dumplings. And of course, not a meat pie, which is a ruse by manufacturers to sell non-pot pies.

At the moment, this article seems to be schizophrenic over what a pot pie is. It appears to be something not entirely like a stew, and also not entirely like a meat pie. However it is not a compromise or halfway point between those two dishes but something which vacillates between the two, occasionally being a stew and occasionally being a pie. 94.1.145.10 (talk) 21:57, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Also, looking at dictionary definitions of pot pie they unanimously state that it is a pie filling in a dish topped with pastry (but with no pastry lining). This should be stated in the very first paragraph. It seems that there are two types of pot pie, a Pennsylvanian version which has noodles but no crust, and a general American version which has a top-crust only. A lot of the information is in the article, it is just a mess and desperately needs organisation and clarification. 94.1.145.10 (talk) 22:06, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Recent Edit
After doing some searching it is clear there are two types of pie called a pot pie, as such I have divided the page into two sections and rearranged the text to remove any contradictions. I have also removed some repetition and some opinion which had slipped into the article. Hopefully now the page will be clearer and useful. Diogeneticist (talk) 03:15, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Modern Pot Pie
I feel the term modern pot pie is inadequate and implies that the pennsylvania pot pie is outdated. However, I don't know of a decent way to describe the other form of pot pie. I was considering "General American Pot Pie" but that seems a bit wordy and awkward. Any suggestions are appreciated. 2.122.182.180 (talk) 02:43, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Manufactured pot pies with bottom crusts
The article seems to state that pot pies do NOT have bottom crusts, yet most manufactured foods labeled as "pot pies" in the USA contain bottom crusts - brands include Swanson's, Marie Callender's, Boston Market, and Banquet.

KFC (Kentucky Fried Chicken) fast-food restaurants sell pot pies, although I seem to recall that they don't have a bottom crust. It's been a while since I've eaten one.68.12.194.33 (talk) 03:43, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Calories??
The infobar states that one pot pie serving is 4 calories ... This is not at all right. I suggest removing the calories altogether since it varies so much between recipes / brands. smIsle (talk) 22:10, 24 May 2016 (UTC)