Talk:Poundra (caste)

Some Poundras are Baishnabs they are Achyuta Gotra. They converted to Vaishnavas during Bhakti Movement of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. They Practice Vaishnavism. They are Das and Adhikary titles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meetwithme234 (talk • contribs) 07:11, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Barman (2014)
So many issues in a single line: TrangaBellam (talk) 10:37, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Asatsudra did not mean almost untouchable in Brh. P — such an assumption would span over half of the Uttam Sankaras alongside all of Madhyam Sankaras and Adham Sankaras. In any case, Poundras/Pods are not mentioned in Brh. P. [Furui, 2013] and Barman does not provide any source either.
 * 2) About Bv. P., see my addition to the article.
 * 3) More later incl. other parts of article.

Offensive terms banned by high courts of India..
Use of the word "dalit" is discouraged and banned by high courts of India..please remove it.. Kk1141014036 (talk) 15:47, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Decision by Bombay High court 2018 banning the use of word dalit Kk1141014036 (talk) 15:48, 2 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Indian courts don't have jurisdiction over Wikipedia, which is hosted in the United States, and Wikipedia is not censored. JBW (talk) 16:07, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Kshatriya reservation ...
Many kshatriya castes have reservation benefits like Yadav's Jats Marathas etc come under OBC and many others have ST like Kurmi ..or Meena who also are known to be kshatriya..some kushwaha caste come under EBC too.

Poundra were recognised as kshatriya by government of West Bengal during 1950 and are mentioned as kshatriya in government records so officially they are kshatriya... Kk1141014036 (talk) 15:58, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

On 14 December 1939, Patiram Roy MLA placed the demand before the Bengal Legislative Assembly for identifying the community as Paundra-Kshatria, and the proposal was carried in the Assembly. Earlier on 6 May 1938, the secretary of the Bengal government in a letter appraised Patiram Roy that the community would be designated as 'Paundra-Kshatria' in the official documents and in proceedings of the court. Kk1141014036 (talk) 16:19, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Historical sources to support the kshatriya tag given..the status of Poundta as kshatriya continue till today Kk1141014036 (talk) 16:21, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Factual information
Maurya community which is known to be the ancestors of Mauryan dynasty are currently under Backward classes...many kshatriya too have reservation and quata benefits which doesn't qualify them to be called as Dalits.. Kk1141014036 (talk) 16:47, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 September 2022
Hi, It was me who requested a protection on this page but it appears that somebody edited this page before it was protected. Anyways here are few corrections that can be done: Poundras are also known as Poundra Kshatriyas here is a source to proof my claim(the truth) "Simultaneously, they adopted certain rituals from the caste Hindus to legitimize their demand. At the same time they placed their appeal to the colonial G9vernment for recognition of a respectable caste identity. They also initiated social reforms including the spread of education in their own society for materializing the dreams of achieving respectable caste status. In such a context of colonial society of Bengal, in this article I shall highlight the social movement of the Pods of Bengal who demanded Poundra (Kshatriya) identity for achieving respect and social justice what was granted by the Government of Independent India in 1956" and also, Though they are included in the scheduled castes, they are not Dalits.

}} Aceofalljackofnone (talk) 20:21, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: You'll need to provide information on where that quote came from. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:42, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 October 2022 (2)
Meetwithme234 (talk) 06:24, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Some Poundras are Baishnabs they are Achyuta Gotra. They converted to Vaishnavas during Bhakti Movement of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. They Practice Vaishnavism. They are Das and Adhikary titles.
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 09:08, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Before somebody files a PIL (Public Interest Litigation), kindly remove the term "Pode" from Wikipedia as it has already been renounced
Paundra-Kshatria is a section of the scheduled caste community specifically earmarked in the schedule as Paundra-Kshatria. In the 1872 census report, the people of this community are designated as 'Pode'. In consequence of the movement of the Paundra-Kshatrias, though the word 'Paundra' was inserted within brackets after the designation 'Pode' in the census report of 1921, the insertion was found deleted in the census report of 1931. On December 14, 1939, Patiram Roy MLA placed the demand before the Bengal Legislative Assembly for identifying the community as Paundra-Kshatria, and the proposal was carried in the Assembly. Earlier, on May 6, 1938, the secretary of the Bengal government, in a letter, appraised Patiram Roy that the community would be designated as 'Paundra-Kshatria' in the official documents and in the proceedings of the court. Sourin666 (talk) 13:18, 23 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Hey, please note that Wikipedia is not censored! Ekdalian (talk) 14:12, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Please don't forget that the inciting and misleading article can also be changed or edited, Ekdalian. In addition, the content encourages caste discrimination by using the phrase "Paundra caste Pod," which violates Article 15 of The Constitution of India, which states that discrimination based on caste, race, religion, sex, or place of birth is unacceptable and is a crime punishable by Indian Penal Code (IPC) Section 153A Sourin666 (talk) 18:38, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * , previously the name of the article was Pod (caste). I moved the page to Poundra (caste). Please note that Wikipedia isn't censored and Indian laws/acts do not apply on it. Pod name is still in use by scholars and in official records. "Free knowledge for one and all" is our motto, We don't encourage any type of discrimination. Thanks.CharlesWain (talk) 19:08, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * CharlesWain How in the world is the term "pod" still used in the article if the page has already been updated to Poundra (caste)? It also mentions that we find the term "pod" offensive, but why bring it up if you already know it is? If Indian laws do not work, it appears that the only option is to involve influential people in revealing your biased falsehoods and also provide further details about the specific academics using the term 'pod' and display a single instance of a document that references "pod" after the Bengal Legislative Assembly approved the resolution on December 14, 1939, in response to Patiram Roy, MLA, calling for the name to be changed from Paundra-Kshatria. Why don't you try to conduct ten rounds of research before making a statement? It is useless to spread erroneous information under the guise of free knowledge. Sourin666 (talk) 04:38, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * , Here is the list of the scheduled castes of West Bengal -list; Please Check number 53 on the list.CharlesWain (talk) 05:08, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * CharlesWain, Please produce a legal document stating that members of the caste Poundra are dalits or untouchables. Sourin666 (talk) 07:00, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Why legal document? Indian laws are not applicable for Wikipedia! Many people think 'Shudra' word is offensive in caste articles of Bengal, we don't remove the same! Accept the truth. Ekdalian (talk) 07:20, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey, please be advised that any further legal threats will result in a request for WP:NLT. If you have any sources to support your claim, you are welcome to present them here. Additionally, please note that WP:SYN or WP:OR are not permitted.Thanks, Satnam2408 (talk) 08:14, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Satnam2408, Do you have any credible evidence to support your claim that Poundra / Poundra-Kshatriyas belong to the dalit (untouchable) caste? If not, why did you mention the caste of Dalits (untouchables) in the article ? Sourin666 (talk) 08:30, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Ekdalian Yes, I am aware that there is no concrete evidence to support your claim that Poundra-Kshatriyas belong to the dalit caste. Nevertheless, you continue to assert that Poundra-Kshatriyas are dalits, proving once again how phony and misleading Wikipedia can be. Sourin666 (talk) 08:20, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey, I have never edited the article. However, as a responsible editor, I have informed you about the relevant policies. Hey , and , I have replaced the term 'Dalit' with the legal term 'Scheduled Caste'. If you think the term is not perfect, you can change it. Thanks, Satnam2408 (talk) 08:56, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Appreciate your assistance, Satnam2408, CharlesWain, and Ekdalian. After all, entries on Wikipedia ought to be accurate and appropriate. Sourin666 (talk) 12:56, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Poundras Religion
Poundras are Hindu. They are Madhukalya Gotra. Some Poundras are Vaishnavas or Baishnabs Sampradaya. They are Achyuta Gotra. They converted to Vaishnavas during Bhakti Movement of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. They Practice Vaishnavism. They are Das and Adhikary and Mohanta titles. Infox36 (talk) 06:18, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

The supporting references indicate that article revisions are necessary
The highlighted text from the references indicates that specific terminologies have been emphasized in the article, while others have not. The supporting reference from Sage Publishing states, "Lack of education and social restrictions made them an ‘oppressed social category’ who can be categorized as 'Dalits'." However, the reference also states, "In such a context as the colonial society of Bengal, in this article I shall highlight the social movement of the Pods of Bengal who demanded Poundra (Kshatriya) identity for achieving respect and social justice, which was granted by the Government of Independent India in 1956." Therefore, the request is to either highlight that Poundras are Kshatriyas or to remove the untouchable terminology from the article. Sourin666 (talk) 06:49, 12 March 2024 (UTC)


 * The government is nobody to confer a varna-status on a caste/sub-caste/jati; it can, at most, assign/withdraw a "Scheduled Caste" (or like) status on a holistic evaluation — that includes but is not limited to theological hiearchy — of the community.
 * So, what is alluded to in Barman's abstract? In the original Constitution (Scheduled Castes) Order of 1950 (p. 169), 'Pod' was designated as a Scheduled Caste in Bengal. However, in 1956, when an ammendment was pushed through (p. 868), the entry became 'Pod or Poundra'. I need to consult the associated Statement of Objects and Reasons but [W]hat is apparent is that the Government recognized a sizeable chunk (or perhaps, a vocal minority) of 'Pods' to have rebranded themselves as 'Poundras'. Nothing more, nothing less. It might be of interest to note that as of 2016, the entry remained (p. 14) the same. TrangaBellam (talk) 10:55, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The discussion's focal point is maintaining consistency regarding terminology from the Sage journal. If the untouchable terminology is added, then it's necessary to include the assertion that Poundras are Kshatriya as well. Adherence to Wikipedia's guidance necessitates comprehensive inclusion or exclusion of relevant information; selective inclusion is inappropriate. Sourin666 (talk) 13:52, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Competency is required and you are going to end up blocked — this time for an indefinite length of time — unless you stop pushing your own agenda. TrangaBellam (talk) 14:08, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * It appears that you are suggesting a block on my contributions. Could you please elucidate the specific reasons for this suggestion? I must admit, I am not cognizant of the agenda you are alluding to. Your conduct, from my perspective, seems to be offensive. I would respectfully request that you strive to uphold the principle of good faith in your interactions with others, as this is a guideline set forth by Wikipedia. Sourin666 (talk) 14:31, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * As I said, competence is required. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:12, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

David G. Mandelbaum, speaking of the same episode, notes the Pods to have had succeeded in changing their name to a "more mellifluos term" but that their other "mobility goals" were not (yet) achieved, as of 1970. To conclude, as I had said at the outset without digging into sources, As and when I have time, I will dig out the Calcutta Gazette notification (here); btw, if anybody wishes to consult Datta Gupta (1959), the full reference is "A study on the Paundra Kshatriya of West Bengal. Bulletin of the Department of Anthropology, Government of India 8 : 109- 130." Thanks, TrangaBellam (talk) 15:11, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The content provided diverges from the references outlined in the Poudra Caste article. Please refrain from veering off-topic repeatedly. Sourin666 (talk) 15:35, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Huh? TrangaBellam (talk) 15:46, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Allow me to clarify further: Kindly provide corroborating evidence indicating that Poundras are considered untouchable. Sourin666 (talk) 16:04, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Our article has,
 * So, why shall I provide evidence for the fact that the Poundras are considered untouchable? If you replace 'are' with 'were', then Barman (2014) is the source. This is CIR at best and sealioning at worst. TrangaBellam (talk) 16:12, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thus, it would be appropriate to modify the article to state that "Poundras were regarded as nearly untouchable". I trust this revision aligns with your perspective. Sourin666 (talk) 16:32, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, once you provide me sources that state them to have been "nearly untouchable". TrangaBellam (talk) 16:46, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * But you yourself already mentioned that in Barman (2014). Sourin666 (talk) 16:52, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * ?! In any case, I have added Ray (2022) to the article: TrangaBellam (talk) 17:02, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, the statement from the Sage journal, "Lack of education and social restrictions made them an ‘oppressed social category’ who can be categorized as ‘Dalits’," employs the phrase "can be," suggesting a possibility rather than certainty. Thus, it is prudent to utilize this reference for further revision. Sourin666 (talk) 17:11, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Sure, try convincing the editorial community. Ta, TrangaBellam (talk) 17:14, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * My assertion is technically definitive, so could you not simply make this minor edit? Sourin666 (talk) 17:19, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * No. TrangaBellam (talk) 17:23, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * @Sourin666 Tranga is correct here. You are attempting to obtain a non-neutral article which ignores the well-documented phenomenon of sanskritisation. You are not going to get it. - Sitush (talk) 16:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Completely agree with TB & Sitush; this is just another attempt by Sourin666 to push caste related POV! Ekdalian (talk) 17:28, 12 March 2024 (UTC)