Talk:Povey Brothers Studio

Better pics
Please go take and add some better images, please, thank you! ::nods:: :-) Valfontis (talk) 07:51, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Clean up
Valfontis (talk) 08:23, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Is it possible to de-listify?
 * Link first instance of each location
 * Add installation dates of all works missing them
 * Cost to consumer? Several refs mention that restoration of a church's windows cost more than it did to build the original church (in unadjusted dollars)
 * Volume, amount produced, amount remaining
 * More about how important McCary, Bosco and Milligan were, other historians?
 * Create actual lede section summarizing entire article
 * Did I happen to mention better pics?
 * Can someone visit the AHC?


 * Finish researching buildings for NRHP/hist dist status ✅, need to add cites
 * Elsinore really done by Albert Gerlach, what else did he do under Povey name?

Notes from secret admirer: Valfontis (talk) 07:17, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Better pics!
 * Separate categories for churches, residences, commercial buildings, etc.
 * More context re: the state of the stained glass art in PDX. "Creative window firm" vs. what? Ordinary sheet glass? What did churches do for stained glass before 1888? Why did Povey corner the market? Sent East or to Europe? Later competitors?
 * Architects with whom they frequently collaborated? (Schacht for sure, Jacobberger, Lawrence, Knighton, Pugh?)

Refs for expansion
Valfontis (talk) 08:57, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * http://files.usgwarchives.net/or/multnomah/bios/povey1135gbs.txt
 * Find out about discovery of missing skylight from Johnson Hall stored since 1949 and 1998 restoration
 * http://files.usgwarchives.org/or/marion/newspapers/articles118nw.txt

Comments

 * I did a bit of light copyediting, changing a few plurals to singulars. The problem arises because Povey Brothers sounds plural, and the brothers were plural. I hope none of my changes disturbed the prose flow. Please revert any that seem peculiar.


 * The lead reads well but includes important information (like "Tiffany of the Northwest") that does not appear in the main text sections. I think it would be pretty easy prior to a GA run to move some of the lead into the History section and then to re-expand the lead to about the size it is now by repeating only the highlights of the History material and adding a bit more of the highlights from the Production and style section.


 * The large number of red links might be a GA obstacle. I'd recommend deleting all the redundant ones so that Architectural Heritage Center is only redlinked once, but it would be a good idea to expand the encyclopedia by writing at least stubby articles for some of the others.


 * It might be possible to de-listify the article somewhat by combining similar things to make prose paragraphs. For example, the "Other Oregon installations" list might be turned into two paragraphs of prose. The first could begin as is, then continue with a sentence that says, "Other churches with Povey windows include A, B, C... ". The second paragraph might say, "Povey windows are also found at the X Funeral Chapel and the Y Wedding Chapel". In other words, everything that is not a church goes into paragraph 2.


 * Another possibility for de-listifying is to expand individual list items into prose paragraphs. Any that can be expanded can come out of the list and appear above it; the remaining list will be shorter.


 * I wasn't bothered by the fairly large number of refs. I've seen articles with innocent single-sentence claims supported by a dozen refs, and that looks barmy. If I were to trim the refs in this article, I'd look at the longest strings first; i.e., things like "and subsequently worked in stained glass in Philadelphia, New York City, and Newark, New Jersey.[1][3][7][8]". Are four refs necessary for some reason, or would fewer be enough? I'd also look for paragraphs that are supported by a single ref that's merely repeated several times and just keep the one at the end. The third paragraph of "Production and style" only seems to need one at the end, for example, instead of three. Finetooth (talk) 23:07, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Excellent input, thank you. And you used the word "barmy" which is even better. Cheers! Valfontis (talk) 23:31, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Glad to help. Just as I was getting ready to post my comments, visitors arrived, and away I went. I meant to add earlier that I noticed the note above about visiting the AHC. I can do that if you like. Are you looking for photos, brochures, or anything in particular? There's a photo here of the exterior of the building housing the AHC. I have rarely done interior shots, but I could try if the AHC allows it. Just let me know. Finetooth (talk) 01:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Lovely building. Yes, if you could make it there, that would be most excellent. Povey glass was one of Bosco and Milligan's specialties, so I am hoping the public collection has several--I assume it is set up like a museum? I'm hoping they have the lighting done so that good backlit photographs of some of the glass would be possible. Despite all the false starts, there haven't been a lot of days conducive to interior photographs of stained glass in situ. And yes, any material helpful for expanding either this article or one on the center/foundation itself would be great too. I imagine they would be most cooperative if you mentioned Wikipedia. Well, explained Wikipedia. Most people I talk to don't really get the idea that real humans actually write this stuff, and write it well, even. Valfontis (talk) 13:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll go over there sometime this week and give it my best shot. I had an interesting encounter last week with the current owners of the Leslie M. Scott House. They noticed me taking photos and asked me what I was up to. I explained, and they invited me in for a tour. Even though the original stub article about their house was a bit disappointing to them, they were enthusiastic about Wikipedia in general and thanked me for working to improve it. (I expanded and illustrated the Scott House article as soon as I got home.) Finetooth (talk) 16:28, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

AHC visit
The AHC is open Wednesday through Saturday. Today being Wednesday, I went there with my camera and notebook. I talked to a volunteer at the main desk, and she introduced me to Doug Magedanz, the AHC collections curator. He would like to help but must consult with Cathy Galbraith, the executive director, to see what might be done. The AHC has professional photos of the Povey works in its collection. However, it may or may not be possible to get any of them licensed for upload to the Commons. After talking to Mr. Magedanz, at his suggestion I put my request in writing and e-mailed it to him along with a sample permissions form. When I hear from him again, we'll proceed in one direction or another. Finetooth (talk) 21:19, 29 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The AHC officials have decided not to release any of their Povey Glass photos to us. They suggested that I try for "own photos" at Saint Michael of the Archangel Church or First Christian Church, both in Portland. The First Christian Church has a Povey window that is signed, I'm told. The First Presbyterian Church in Portland also has Povey windows, but it may also have non-Povey windows; I won't be able to tell by just looking at them. If I get down that way with my camera, I'll see what I can do. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind at all if somebody beat me to it. Finetooth (talk) 03:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Oregonian article
Oregonian article, and links to this article. Quick someone add this info before "O-vanish". Valfontis (talk) 11:57, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * O-vanish no longer really exists, and has not existed for a few years now, at least as described on that page. I've been meaning to leave Pete a note pointing out how out of date that page is (mostly written in 2007), but haven't gotten around to it. All Oregonian articles have remained available for free for at least 30 days (changed from 14) since late 2009 or 2010, and as far as I have observed, it is actually more common for them to remain available (in their entirety) for 2-3 years or more (!). Also, old URLs now virtually always redirect to an excerpt of the article after it becomes "archived" and no longer free. They almost never vanish without a trace anymore; I think The O. fixed that problem about 3-4 years ago. I'll leave a comment on the O-vanish talk page now. SJ Morg (talk) 07:55, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Good to know, thanks! Valfontis (talk) 17:01, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

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