Talk:Prenuptial agreement

Pop culture
added pop culture Should we have it?58.178.199.22 00:30, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think pop culture should be in a law article. But pre-nupts are a popular discussion point so we need a general pre-nupt article that is not legalese and retitle this article say "Pre-nuptial agreement (legal aspects)" or something just as specific. Any comments? Erisa Goss 21:56, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Religious canon law
I do not think Catholic Church law should be a proper subtopic. It may be provided as a tangential point to motovate a link to a separate article on church law which may compare how say hindu, protestant, Catholic, jewish or muslim religions treat pre-nupts. I think the section should be reworded to say that it is not law but church teaching and NOT BINDING or deleted. Erisa Goss 21:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

The article says, "For example, they cannot subject a marriage to a condition concerning the future (such as an agreement about the dividing of assets in case of divorce)." I fail to see how agreeing to divide property is "a condition concerning the future." There is no condition to it whatever; the promise is absolute. What triggers the duty to perform the promise--divorce--may or may not occur, but that's a completely different issue, from a legal point of view. A true future condition might be, "I promise to marry you, if you give me children; but if you fail to give me children, I'm entitled to divorce." Such a condition--that all bets are off if a future event occurs--is clearly a "condition concerning the future." But agreeing in advance how property is to be divided if the worst (divorce) should happen is not a "condition" in the logical sense of the term. Indeed, making such an agreement evinces the virtue of providence. Furthermore, CIC 1102(2) says that one may (in some cases) marry subject to a condition concerning the past or present; agreeing to marry on the condition that the parties have entered (past) or are entering (present) into a valid prenup would be such a condition (note: I don't say that they'd be acceptable under CIC 1102(2); only that they relate to the past or present). Keith H. Peterson, Jersey City, New Jersey, 9 July 2008.

Example
Could someone give an example of what a pre-nuptial agreement might actually say, and explain why it is necessary to have in that instance? Zargulon 15:27, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Template on article
I was running through recent changes and came across this article. I noted the template at the top stating that this article may not represent a world view. The article says the same thing, in not so many words. I kinda think the template is redundant. Normally I'd be bold and remove it, however, I'll ask the more knowledgeable. Does this template appear to be redundant and almost a disclaimer? If so, should it be removed ? THanks KoshVorlon  ".. We are ALL Kosh..."  17:24, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Alimony
Can a Prenupitial agreement include a clause stating that in the occasion of a divorce, the parties involved do not have to pay alimony? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.195.105 (talk) 20:18, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Prenup Definition
I think the definition of a prenup is too much geared to the US situation. In the Netherlands (see the Dutch page), a prenup is also used even when there is no divorce to protect one party from the financial consequences of the other party. For instance, if a husband owns his own business and goes bankrupt, having a prenup will protect his wife's assetts and the two of them won't go broke together -- only his part can be confiscated by the bank. Pluisjenijn (talk) 20:41, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree, I'd like to see more information relating to the UK and other places that are not the U.S. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.29.251.159 (talk) 11:44, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Yup, in many places (such as Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands, also Mexico and Russia I think) prenups have long been legally recognized. I remember thinking as I followed the acrimonious divorce between Macca and Heather Mills, "Why couldn't he have made sure there was a prenuptial? Isn't that what any sane wealthy man in his position would do when you marry someone much younger and without near as much money?" It never occurred to me that this kind of thing was not recognized as valid in itself by most UK judges. Strausszek (talk) 09:53, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Added an overview section on mainland Europe where prenups are widely recognized. I'm positive on all countries mentioned, but finding written sources that specifically say it is so for each country is not a quick job; I don't have Dutch, Swiss or Belgian law codes at hand. Showing they are recognized is probably easier to do by implication from well-publicized cases than by trying to find a reference that specifically says "prenuptial agreements are recognized by Dutch courts" etc, but I'll look around for some solid sources. If you want quick confirmation that they do recognize it, look up the articles on this at the French and German wikipedias etc, provided you know the language.

In the meantime I request that the bit on Europe be not removed per "no sources" unless someone has serious and well-founded doubts about those countries. Strausszek (talk) 13:24, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Islam
In Islam, every marriage (Nikah نكاح) should be preceded by a written contract in which the rights of both bride and groom should be stated clearly. There are many types of marriage in Islam. For more information, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_marital_jurisprudence In some Muslim countries, like Iraq, an additional documented agreement can be attached to the legal marriage contract, like any other contract but in front of the court of social status (محكمة الأحوال الشخصية) which offers different religion or non-religious options of to Iraqi citizens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.48.83.42 (talk) 12:38, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

PrenuB
Should we make a mention of this? Even though the abbreviation really makes no sense since there's no B in nuptials, I feel like the B is commonly subbed for the P or PT a lot in both common pronunciation and writing. I don't know if it's common enough to mention... Ranze (talk) 17:58, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Marriage contract?
Why does Marriage Contract redirect here? I want to learn about the actual contract for the marriage itself, not a contract done before or after the marriage. 115.164.1.201 (talk) 13:01, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * What links here seems to indicate that the term was historically the common name for a prenuptial agreement, and is still the primary name for this in some cultures, e.g. see Islamic marriage contract. The Ngram shows that the term "prenuptial agreement" came into more widespread usage in the late 1970s and 1980s. I'm not sure, but around that time some may more increasingly referred to marriage itself as being a "marriage contract", hence the new term to disambiguate from marriage itself. Please consider changing the title of this article to be potentially controversial, and file a formal Requested move if you want to move this. – wbm1058 (talk) 16:10, 20 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Example usage: Lydia Moss Bradley was one of the first American women ever to draft a marriage contract (a "prenuptial agreement" in modern terms) to protect her assets. – wbm1058 (talk) 16:14, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Use of Postnuptial Agreements
The claim has been added to the article, that postnuptial "cannot be used if divorce is contemplated or when divorce is imminent". The authority cited for that claim is a reference to the Uniform Prenuptial Marriages and Agreements Act. As only 27 states have adopted the UPMAA, and at present only twenty-eight states have adopted the UPAA or UPMAA, so that language it is not universally applicable in the United States. Further, the lead is international in scope, so even if there were a nationwide U.S. law that imposed such a restriction it would not be appropriate to state in the lead that such a restriction exists without also explaining the geographic limitation.

Additionally, an agreement that is found to fall outside of the UPMAA by virtue of having been entered in anticipation of divorce will not be invalidated if inappropriately titled as a "marital agreement" or "postnuptial agreement" (a term not used in the UPMAA) but instead will not be governed by the terms of the UPMAA — if that was the intent of the phrase at issue, the language as used is confusing. Arllaw (talk) 21:01, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

09:19, 26 April 2022 (UTC)09:19, 26 April 2022 (UTC)09:19, 26 April 2022 (UTC)~== Using Case Law as a Source ==

For information about the use of sources as references in Wikipedia, see WP:PSTS. A citation to case law may provide support for a claim about a specific state's law, and case law sometimes does include a summary of the laws of certain other states, but when a broad assertion is made about what is true across the nation there should be an appropriate reference to support that claim, and a link to a single case from a single state falls short of that mark. Arllaw (talk) 21:14, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Magazine Article Cited
For FN1, the original reference for the content was more appropriate because the article cited ("Every Married Couple Has a Prenuptial Agreement") contains a clear and thorough explanation of the actual legal purpose that parties enter into a written prenuptial agreement, which is to opt out of the default state laws that govern marital, divorce and death rights of spouses in favor of their own terms. An editor keeps deleting this citation and referencing an obscure Family Law Quarterly article from 2016 that is specific to premarital agreements for senior citizens, and which does not even support the statement in the article, making it a fictitious reference. In contrast, the “Every Married Couple Has a Prenuptial Agreement” article now added back to FN1 was published in the Fall of 2019 and does not apply only to senior citizens. The article explains that the actual purpose of a premarital agreement is to opt out of the laws that would otherwise govern their rights upon marriage and divorce, replacing such laws with agreed-upon marital, divorce and death rights. The article provides specific examples of how default laws can be changed for the benefit of the parties entering into a premarital agreement. The external link in the article I added is a direct link to the actual printed article cited, which is a better resource for the reader.Whatacoolguyiam (talk) 02:30, 6 December 2019 (UTC)Whatacoolguyiam
 * Any conflict of interest issues aside, your substituting the prenuppros article for the ABA article does not constitute the correction of a reference as you suggested in your note. I'm not sure why you believe that the ABA article does not cover the issues for which it is cited; perhaps you haven't read it? If you are concerned that it is focused on seniors, the solution is to add a supplementary reference as opposed to deleting a valid reference. Arllaw (talk) 20:14, 6 December 2019 (UTC)