Talk:Primitive Methodism in the United Kingdom

This is all about EARLY primitive Methodism. My family were proud Primitive Methodists. The Connexion merged with other Methodists in 1932. The latest date I find in this article is 1852. Even after 1932 many people identified themselves as "Prims" and I know some who still do.

Werner
Who is "Werner", referred to twice in this article? The name linked to a disambig page, so I left the name but removed the link. Fredwerner 23:05, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

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Werner is a historian who focusses on 19th century religion. I believe she is based in a North American University (Ann Arbour?)

The Primitive Methodism page is much better than the primitive Methodist Church page.

Julia Stewart Werner, The Primitive Methodist Connexion; Its Background and Early History, University of Wisconsin Press, 1984. This is a social history of the origins and early development of the Primitive Methodist Connexion in England.SarahKirkland (talk) 21:17, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

This article gives far too little information about the Primitives in themselves and too much about their relationship with Wesleyans. That there were Prim chapels in pretty well every village in Norfolk, for instance, and that they had a vital influence on rural trade unionism is nowhere mentioned. Alun Howkins' book Poor Labouring Men is a vital source here. Likewise nothing is said about such men as Robert Key. Roger Arguile 09:46, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

PS There is also a chapter in Eric Hobsbawm's Primitive Rebels Roger Arguile 10:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

"Less toleration for non-bourgeois beliefs"
The article states: "In Wales, 1801, they warned their members against involvement in sorcery, magic, and witchcraft, and in 1816 fifty members of the Portland Methodist Society were struck off for maintaining belief in the supernatural. Not only does this demonstrate that the Wesleyan transition to denominational conservatism resulted in less toleration for alternate beliefs; it also demonstrates that there was less toleration for non-bourgeois beliefs."

This needs improving. Sentence 1 says the leadership warned their members against supernatural beliefs. Sentence 2 declares "it also demonstrates that there was less toleration for non-bourgeois beliefs". I don't think Sentence 2's conclusion can be drawn from Sentence 1. Where is there evidence in this piece (or references to other sources) that indicate that warning members against supernatural beliefs was a bourgeois position in Wales in the early 19th century? We need links to philosophical / belief views of the early 19th century Welsh bourgouisie to make this claim. --mgaved (talk) 09:50, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I absolutely agree with the last post. The page is very repetitious and diffuse, and the main narrative of a revivalist movement that tones down and eventually recombines with the mainstream Methodist movement is not clearly followed. However, sorting this out is a job for someone who's actually read up on their Methodist history, which I haven't. I don't think Hobsbawm's Marxist term "bourgeois" is needed here. "Middle class" says it all. Bmcln1 (talk) 22:15, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Merger? NO!
This article is almost entirely about the very early history of the movement in England and does not belong merged in with the article about the still-extant small U.S. denomination. 75.252.119.134 (talk) 21:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC) Do not merge one of the articles is about the religious beliefs, the other is about individual church denominations. They are related, but each deserves a separate article. Bluap (talk) 22:48, 7 October 2011 (UTC)