Talk:Prince Henry the Navigator

Semi-protected edit request on 29 November 2016
His title is incorrect. It is Prince Henry the Navigator. 92.97.24.9 (talk) 15:44, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
 * The Portuguese title/name is correct in the article and it would indeed translate into English as "Prince Hnery the Navigator." However, the Egnlish WP usually goes by the most common name used in English for that person, and I am not sure if that would be "Henry the Navigator" or "Prince Henry the Navigator." If any other registered editor indicates what s/he thinks the most common English name should be, I could make the change, if necessary. warshy (¥¥) 16:17, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
 * A Google search of "Prince Henry the Navigator" points to this page as the first hit already, so the redirect here must be working correctly. Since it already redirects here, I would assume there is no need to change? warshy (¥¥) 16:23, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
 * A WP search shows first a "Prince Henry" disambiguation page, in which this pare is the third item. I would say the title here SHOULD be changed, but I will leave the actual change to one of those more technichal editors here, who are completely versed in WP protocol. Protocol and policies is NOT my cup of tea... warshy (¥¥) 16:30, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: Renamed in the article. I will request a page move for this. -- Dane 2007  talk  19:48, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The move will take place shortly based on the two users consensus above + my review agreeing with the move. -- Dane 2007  talk 19:54, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Page move is ✅.  ~Oshwah~  (talk) (contribs)   20:00, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

this article needs more footnotes
There are a number of paragraphs throughout the article that do not have any citations whatsoever. Specifically, the following sections: Thanks. — howcheng  {chat} 17:40, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Life
 * Resources and income
 * Henry's explorers
 * Madeira
 * West African coast
 * Ancestry

The Cape of Good Hope is NOT the southernmost tip of Africa!
The subsection "West African coast" currently says that "[...] Bartolomeu Dias proved that Africa could be circumnavigated when he reached the southern tip of the continent, now known as the Cape of Good Hope." This is not true, since the southern tip of the continent is a bit more to the South-East and is called the Cape of the Needles ("Cabo das Agulhas" in Portuguese, "needle" referring to the needle of the compass). Please replace the name of the wrong cape with the correct one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.98.118.127 (talk) 14:40, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I had never heard before of this "Cape of the Needles," and certainly it was not known at the time of Prince Henry as the southernmost tip of Africa. If the geographical information is now correct, and there are reliable sources confirming this, there could be a note added explaining this. But from everything I've arned and studied so far about the Prince, I've never heard of this correction before. At his time, certainly the belief was that the southernmost tip of Africa was the Cape of Good Hope, or "Cabo da Esperança" in Portuguese. warshy (¥¥) 16:52, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
 * The cape was actually know to the Prince and his contemporaries as "Cabo das Tormentas" (Cape of Storms), as it had been named by its Portuguese discoverer, Bartolomeu Dias. This is all explained in the Cape's own page, including the apparent misconception about it being the southernmost tip of Africa. But for the article here, in my view, it should remain as is. The link to the geographic page that is already there in the sentence/paragraph, will clarify to the reader the apparent geopraphic misconception, as it dit to me. Thank you, warshy (¥¥) 17:09, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 January 2020
Change the prince henry main image to the correct one: Alternative Henry the Navigator (St. Vincent Panels).jpg Sources: Carvalho, J. (1965). Iconografia e Simbólica do Políptico de São Vicente de Fora. Lisboa: [Edição de Autor] Cortesão, J. (1990). Os Descobrimentos Portugueses. Lisboa: Imprensa Nacional/Casa da Moeda [reedição do texto original] Markl, D. (1988). O Retábulo de S. Vicente da Sé de lisboa e os Documentos. Lisboa: Editorial Caminho SA Oliveira Marques, A. (2010). A Sociedade Medieval Portuguesa – Aspectos do Quotidiano. Lisboa: Esfera dos Livros Serrão, V. (2003). “Pintura e Vitral”. Em Barroca, Mário; História da Arte em Portugal, vol. II, O Gótico. Lisboa: Editorial Presença, pp. 279-285.

Extensive text describing this "image issue" here: https://www.facebook.com/RepensandoMedievo/posts/1354104878115058 Afbpinheiro (talk) 16:14, 29 January 2020 (UTC)


 * ❌. Please establish a consensus for this change before making an edit request. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon &bull; videos) 16:23, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 February 2020
In the "Vila do Infante and Portuguese exploration" section, the sentence "This last incident probably accounts for the legend of the School of Sagres, which is now discredited." is a direct quote from the citation listed. The sentence should be enclosed in quotes to show that it is a direct quote and not a summary of the quote. - Matthew Vine 22:11, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * To call the probable presence of a famous cartographer at the Prince's court "an incident," is a little below standard for optimal language in a good Encyclopedic entry. I have articulated the argument using better and clearer language, and I have attributed it to the source referenced by putting the main part in quotation marks as requested. ✅ warshy (¥¥) 00:23, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Involvement in the Atlantic slave trade
It is a strange omission of this article that its only mention of slavery is Henry's interest in stopping the Barbary pirates while it completely ignores Henry involvement in (if not the inception of) the Atlantic slave trade.

Zurara describes what is perhaps the first sale of African slaves in Europe, by Europeans, with great detail:

"On the next day, which was the 8th of the month of August, very early in the morning, by reason of the heat, the seamen began to make ready their boats, and to take out those captives, and carry them on shore, as they were commanded. And these, placed all together in that field, were a marvellous sight; for amongst them were some white enough, fair to look upon, and well proportioned; others were less white like mulattoes; others again were as black as Ethiops, and so ugly, both in features and in body, as almost to appear (to those who saw them) the images of a lower hemisphere. But what heart could be so hard as not to be pierced with piteous feeling to see that company? For some kept their heads low and their faces bathed in tears, looking one upon another; others stood groaning very dolorously, looking up to the height of heaven, fixing their eyes upon it, crying out loudly, as if asking help of the Father of Nature; others struck their faces with the palms of their hands, throwing themselves at full length upon the ground; others made their lamentations in the manner of a dirge, after the custom of their country. And though we could not understand the words of their language, the sound of it right well accorded with the measure of their sadness. But to increase their sufferings still more, there now arrived those who had charge of the division of the captives, and who began to separate one from another, in order to make an equal partition of the fifths; and then was it needful to part fathers from sons, husbands from wives, brothers from brothers. No respect was shewn either to friends or relations, but each fell where his lot took him."

And also "[Prince Henry] was there... as a man who sought to gain but small treasure from his share; for of the forty-six souls that fell to him as his fifth, he made a very speedy partition of these"

He is also missing in the Atlantic slave trade article itself

Silverhammermba (talk) 01:26, 16 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The term "Atlantic slave trade" usually involves America, which was of course, not known at the time. That said, this is not a very good article.  I mean, practically every one of the Henrican expeditions, certainly in the 1440s was geared towards slave-raiding, which includes the massive slave-raiding bonanza attacks on the Arguin banks in 1444, 1445 & 1446 (on total, going by Zurara's records, some 927 captives were seized). Indeed, the reason they kept moving further south along the coast (as Zurara makes clear) is because every raid raised alarms along the West African coast, putting coastal populations on alert and forcing the Henrican ships to go further south to find new more vulnerable slave-raiding grounds. The actual establishment of the slave-trade (as opposed to slave-raiding) is a little trickier, since Zurara covers only the slave-raiding phase, taking the chronicle down to 1448, when they ran out of slave-raiding grounds, and the coast along the Sine-Saloum delta proved to be too much of an obstacle - Portuguese slave-raiding ships were easily attacked in the delta rivulets along that stretch, and too many captains and ships were lost there. And that's where Zurara's story ends.  We know Henry changed tactics after 1448, forbade captains from sailing south of Cape Vert, and shifted from slave-raiding into slave-trading. Exactly when & how is unclear.  The Henrican captains Alvise Cadamosto & Diogo Gomes, in their own later memoirs, say the slave trade was opened sometime after 1450, with posts near Cayor (to Wolofs) and Arguin island (to siphon from the Trans-Saharan route).  By 1455, regular slave-trade was certainly well-established by Henry on that stretch, but most of its details are missing. Unfortunately, Henry kept his own private records of his operation, separate from the crown, and these have long been lost. Walrasiad (talk) 06:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
 * This all seems to be good material, since the African slave trade was undoubtedly one important component of the Atlantic colonial trade in general. The Zurara "Chronicle" would be a good primary source, but it would have to be supplemented by secondary sources on the history of the Atlantic colonial trade that do use and comment on it. Seems like the editor that wrote the nice essay immediately preceding this comment sould have a wealth of secondary sources that could verify all the specific knowledge about the slave trade that he or she has put on display above. Thank you, warshy (¥¥) 18:29, 16 July 2020 (UTC)


 * You'd be surprised. Henrican literature is actually not very large. As you can guess, most studies of Henry the Navigator are by Portuguese authors, but many of them rather old, and the element of nationalism/patriotism sometimes distorts a little, and in some cases distorts a lot. The more serious studies (e.g. Teixeira da Mota) are rather blunt and matter-of-fact about it, but other lighter authors are a little more coy, and try to pass off the slave-raiding as a side-activity rather than a main mission of the expeditions. There's only one modern English book (Peter Russell, 2000), and he goes with intentionality.
 * The main difficulty is that everyone is operating with only three primary texts: Zurara's chronicle, Cadamosto's memoir, and Diogo Gomes's memoir. And all three sources have severe deficiencies. So there's a lot of speculation in the gaps.


 * The transition from slave-raiding to slave-trading is hard to pin down because things get particularly opaque after 1448. (Indeed, all Portuguese activities in Africa remain quite obscure until 1481, when the crown finally gets involved, and we start having some documentation.)
 * Alas, there's no other contemporary records of Henry's activities. Like I said, Henry kept his affairs private and separate from the crown, so there's practically nothing in the royal archives about them. Maybe some day a lucky tourist in the Algarve will stumble on a chest with Henry's papers, and we can all finally get a better picture.  Walrasiad (talk) 01:14, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the rather thorough survey of existing sources and literature. I imagine that the number of African slaves captured in these raids and transported to some Atlantic islands (Azores, Cape Verde, etc.) and to Portugal, and maybe from there also to some other places in Europe before 1500, must have been small compared to the numbers of slaves captured and transported to the new sugar plantations in Brazil, especially after the new territory was divided into "feudal" captaincies after the 1520s. I would be interested in some quantification, both in the numbers of slaves delivered to colonies, and in the commercial/monetary value of these deliveries. And then also, I'd be interested in attempts to determine the relative value of the slave trade as compared to the value of the trade in colonial agricultural goods such as raw sugar cane and molasses. The refining and distribution of refined sugar in Europe was done in Portugal itself first, and then developed more intensely by the Dutch after 1600. But all this expanding and quite valuable colonial trade was based primarily on African black slave labor. warshy (¥¥) 16:17, 17 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Oh, you're comparing things on massively different scales. The later slave trade to Brazil was of gigantic proportions.  Even the Portuguese slave trade of the 1480s (after opening trade on the Benin coast) well outstrips the Henry-era trade.


 * As to numbers & value, well, we have to rely on the three deficient sources. The Henrican captain Alvise Cadamosto, in his memoir of the 1455 expedition, provides the most details about Henry's operation (if you can read old Italian, see Cadamosto, 1550 ed, p.108.) He talks about the earlier slave-raiding, but says that the Portuguese "five years earlier" (i.e. 1450) settled into the slave trade, and identifies two Portuguese slave trading posts by name - Arguin island and Palma de Budomel (near Cayor) (note: this is north of Cape Vert; trade south of Cape Vert is opened only in 1456, initially in the Gambia River - both Cadamosto and Diogo Gomes claim credit for it).  Arguin is the main slave-trading station, siphoning off the Trans-Saharan route.  Henry erected a fort on Arguin, and leased it to be run by a Luso-Italian consortium on contract with Henry.  All slave-traders must be personally licensed by Henry, and follow strict rules imposed by Henry.  According to Cadamosto, Portuguese at Arguin sell mostly silver, woolen & linen cloth, Moroccan clothes & cloaks (* - there's a long story to this), and, "above all wheat" in return for gold and "Negro" slaves from the Trans-Saharan caravans. Cadamosto himself does not stop at Arguin for trade - Cadamosto is carrying horses, which fetch a large price at Budomel station in direct trade with the Wolofs of Cayor - he reports between 9 and 14 slaves per horse (ends up acquiring 100 slaves at Budomel).  Cadamosto says that (in 1455) the Portuguese are acquiring between 700 and 800 slaves per year at Arguin to be sold in  Portugal (he doesn't report annual estimates for Budomel).  By way of comparison, a half-century later, the new Portuguese colony of São Tomé island alone was importing 1,000 slaves per year from Benin by 1499.
 * (Note on Moroccan cloth & cloaks: these were luxury clothes, good light & colored weaves, woven and cut in fashionable style by Moroccan weavers & tailors. Rough, hot European clothing had little vent in Sub-Saharan Africa, wealthy Africans much preferring light Moroccan clothing.  But these could only be acquired in Morocco, and Portuguese merchants were blocked from Moroccan markets (war reasons), so there is actually a complicated multi-step process by which Portuguese slave-traders acquired the desired Moroccan cloth they needed via intermediaries of other "neutral" nationalities.  Later Portuguese intrigues and interventions in Safi, Azemmour, and other Atlantic Moroccan port towns, dislodging them from their Wattasid rulers, was partly motivated by their need to get direct access to this valuable cloth for the slave trade.)
 * (Note on "Negros": the initial African slaves captured by the Portuguese were mostly "tawny" Saharan Berbers (Sanhaja/"Azenegues"/"Azanagi"), not Sub-Saharan "Blacks" ("Negros"/"Guineus"). These poor Sanhaja Berber folk had many vulnerable fishing settlements dotted around the Arguin banks (Mauritania), which were devastated in repeated waves of Portuguese slave raids of 1440s (the heart-breaking passage cited above refers to a haul of "Azenegues" by one of Henry's raiders). When the Sanhaja abandoned the coasts, the Portuguese raided inland. But they soon ran out of settlements.  So they sailed further south down the coast looking for more prey, when they stumbled on the "Land of the Blacks" south of the Senegal River (Wolofs/Jalofes).  But the Portuguese raiders had next-to-no-luck capturing "Blacks"  below the Senegal River (No matter how heroically Zurara's chronicle pretends to paint the slave-raiders, his account actually depicts them as comically incompetent and repeatedly fail - never got more than a handful of Black captives despite multiple raiding attempts, culminating in the deaths of several captains and at least one entire ship by canoe-borne Niominka in the Sine-Saloum delta).  So the vast bulk of the 927 African slaves reported by Zurara in the 1440s are Sanhaja Berbers. This changed in 1450, as Cadamosto explains, as Henry shifted from raiding to trading, Henry declared Sanhaja Berbers off-limits (presumably to keep the hinterlands of Arguin at peace), and only Black slaves could be acquired by trade.)
 * (Note on Canary islands: there's a long story here too, I don't have space to tell it in full. But Henry's first slave raid in 1424 was directed not at Africa, but at aboriginal Guanches in Canary Islands, who seemed very easy pickings. Although the raid failed, the attempt infuriated Castile, who nominally owned the islands and nearly declared war on Portugal over Henry's intrusion. The Canaries were a very sensitive issue. Despite Henry's frustrated machinations, including repeatedly petitioning the Pope to reassign the islands, the Canaries Guanches were also off-limits.]


 * As to the destination of the Henrican slave trade, we lack details. But, yes, it is almost certain the Atlantic islands of Madeira & Azores (which were uninhabited) were important early recipients. Henry had sugar plantations on Madeira up and running by the 1450s. A lot of slaves also went to big farms in the Algarve - there are estimates that as much as 10% of the population in mainland Portugal c.1500 were African slaves.
 * But a lot of African slaves brought back by the Portuguese at this early stage were also almost certainly forwarded to the old and well-established Mediterranean slave markets, a business traditionally run by Italians (esp. Genoese & Venetians). Henry would have earned a pretty good stream of revenue from the Mediterranean markets, since there were few alternative sources of slaves during this period. We do know Italian merchants, captains, cartographers, etc. were heavily involved in the Henrican enterprises, certainly from c.1450 on (the most famous of these Italian immigrants is, of course, a certain Christopher Columbus, albeit he arrived in the 1470s, well after Henry's death).


 * But details are a serious problem. We just don't have any records of Henry's activities - not even something as measly as a lading receipt. It was big business, but all privately and tightly run by Henry and his small coterie of friends. There was no Columbus-like public fanfare. Indeed, there is no mention that Henry the Navigator ever sent any expedition to Africa in print anywhere in Europe (Portugal included) until his captain Alvise Cadamosto published his memoir in Italy in 1507, nearly a half-century after Henry's death!  So this is a very opaque period.  If you hoping to come across any hard facts or numbers, they're going to be highly speculative. Nonetheless, whatever the scale may have been under Henry, its dimensions were certainly nowhere near the massive Atlantic slave trade that developed in the subsequent centuries. Walrasiad (talk) 00:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Regardless of the lack of solid primary sources, it seems incontrovertible that slavery did take place under Henry's command. Zurara is one of Henry's greatest champions, never missing an opportunity to sing his glories, and even he explicitly mentions Henry's involvement. And even if it was not considered remarkable at the time (enough to deserve meticulous record-keeping) in retrospect it seems notable in that it marked the inception of a new kind of slavery for Europeans. Again, the complete absence of its mention in this article is bizarre. Silverhammermba (talk) 00:07, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

It isn’t shocking that they don’t mention any of that information. I edited it a few times now. Adding it in. But a bot kept removing it. It is just disgusting honestly. Nq06x (talk) 05:22, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Removal of my information
Some bot keeps removing my changes and I’m pissed. Stop Nq06x (talk) 05:20, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

English
Dom Henrique of Portugal, Duke of Viseu (4 March 1394 – 13 November 1460), better known as Prince Henry the Navigator (Portuguese: Infante Dom Henrique, o Navegador), was a central figure in the early days of the Portuguese Empire and in the 15th-century European maritime discoveries and maritime expansion. Through his administrative direction, he is regarded as the main initiator of what would be known as the Age of Discovery. Henry was the fourth child of the Portuguese King John I, who founded the House of Aviz.[1]

Prince Henry the Navigator Duke of Viseu Henry the Navigator1.jpg Infante Dom Henrique; St. Vincent Panels[a] Born 4 March 1394 Porto, Portugal Died 13 November 1460 (aged 66) Sagres, Portugal Burial Batalha Monastery House Aviz Father John I of Portugal Mother Philippa of Lancaster Religion Roman Catholicism After procuring the new caravel ship, Henry was responsible for the early development of Portuguese exploration and maritime trade with other continents through the systematic exploration of Western Africa, the islands of the Atlantic Ocean, and the search for new routes. He encouraged his father to conquer Ceuta (1415), the Muslim port on the North African coast across the Straits of Gibraltar from the Iberian Peninsula. He learned of the opportunities offered by the Saharan trade routes that terminated there, and became fascinated with Africa in general; he was most intrigued by the Christian legend of Prester John and the expansion of Portuguese trade. He is regarded as the patron of Portuguese exploration. 49.148.156.172 (talk) 00:09, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Map
That map is absolutely terrible and doesn't really fit that much for the article anyhow. It needs to be heavily edited or removed. 2003:E7:9713:410:B07E:DE57:182A:FB8F (talk) 13:03, 12 May 2024 (UTC)