Talk:Princess Zelda/Archive 1

166.109.0.214's recent changes
This User has reduced this paragraph. I myself think too much information has been cut, but what do others think? Master Thief Garrett 23:51, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

SSBM info pronoun genders
I changed pronoun gender on SSBM info -Ben

Zelda's family name and other comments
I don't remember any canon sources saying Zelda's last name is Hyrule, though this is a common royal naming procedure. One of Hyrule's king's last names was Hyrule, however. The bit about OoT's Zelda functioning during a 'reconstruction' period is similarly implied, but not supported. I believe there was nothing to reconstruct as time was rewound, but there are many theories. What's with the 'the real Zelda' section? It should be added with the OoT section. -Unknown
 * Agreed. I believe one manual (LOZ? Z2?) uses that surname, but it's not in any of the games' ingame texts, and we all know how crappily-translated the manuals were! -Unknown
 * I don't think she has a last name; it's not uncommon for royalty to known only by one name. If she did have a full name, it would probably be something like "Zelda of Hyrule" but that's just speculation. Gazuga

I emailed her (yes, you can do that) and asked her what her last name was and she emailed me back and said it was hyrule and then signed the letter "From, Zelda Hyrule" so I think that's her full name.

Her complete names is Zelda Daphnes Nonsaden Hyrule. It was discovered because of the complete name of Hyrule's king. You can see it on Wind Waker characters on wikipedia —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.193.127.4 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 15 July 2006.
 * Just because there was a member of the Hylian royal family with the name Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule, does not mean that Zelda shares it. Yes, King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule III was a descendent of the same royal blood line as Zelda, and, yes again, Tetra was descended from the same royal bloodline. However this does not prove anything about the names. In the real world, the royal line that Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom has descended from has changed its nominal surname many times over the generations (Windsor, Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, Hanover, Stuart, etc.). Unless you can find a source at Nintendo to confirm that the line has shared the same name throughout its history, any name we do include in the article would be just a guess. Road Wizard 21:26, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Just to point out that the case of the British Royal Family isn't quite that simple: the various branches of the family, formed by the intermarrying between the European royal families in earlier years, had different names. For example, the last of the Tudors, Elizabeth I, had no heir, and the son of Mary Stuart became King James I. After the last of the Stuarts, Queen Anne, died, her second-cousin George of Hanover became King, followed by his line through to Queen Victoria, who married Prince Albert, which changed the family name to Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. (It later turned out that Prince Albert's actual family name was Wettin, but I only just discovered this myself:-).) Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and Wettin were both changed in 1917 due to the unpatriotic suggestions of a German surname, due to the Great War. Thus it should now be obvious just how complicated royal succession is... Setokaiba✌≝ 22:17, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but if you check out List of monarchs in the British Isles, you will notice that each monarch in Elizabeth's line is either a child, grandchild or great-grandchild of a previous monarch (back to at least the Tudors and the House of Bruce anyway). As all we seem to know about the Zelda bloodline is that OOT Zelda, Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule and Tetra are descended from the same family (directly or indirectly), there is nothing to have stopped any of them from changing their family name. That is, of course assuming they had a family name, as commented on by Gazuga above. Road Wizard 22:52, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Origin of Zelda's name
I don't think what the article says is right about the origin of Zelda's name. I read it and said "that doesn't sound right" And I remember reading something about it in an old EGM issue. So I looked it up in issue #145 where there is a quote from Shigeru Miyamoto.
 * EGM: One interesting thing we learned at E3 was the origin of the name "Zelda". According to Miyamoto, the name came from none other than Zelda Fitzgerald, wife of famous American author F. Scott Fitzgerald.
 * We wanted a good name...a kind of eternal female name, a name that's going to last and have appeal, says Miyamoto. (She) was a rather famous woman who was kinda strong so we decided to with her name.

Heh, i checked the Zelda Fitzgerald article and it says right there about her name. Am I missing something? Thunderbrand June 28, 2005 04:57 (UTC)
 * I'd say you should put in the "canon" source of the name but mention the technical origin as an aside--much like "LEGO" has a meaning in Latin but was actually chosen as a contraction of a Danish phrase, the coincidence came later. So maybe mention the other afterwards, but clearly say that it's a coincidence. Master Thief GarrettTalk 2 July 2005 04:57 (UTC)
 * I kind of put it in. It's a bit confusing to me, so I'll let you clear it up some. Thanks for replying. Thunderbrand July 2, 2005 05:52 (UTC)
 * The offical explanation from the character's creator strikes me as more important than "Also worth mentioning". I'm changing it. WikidSmaht 01:45, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Logically impossible statement
In the part about Super Smash Bros. Melee, there's a rather strange statement:
 * In the form of Zelda, she is somewhat slow but is rather graceful and swift.

So, which one is she? Slow or swift? Or did the writer mean to say "but as Sheik is rather graceful and swift", and this inconsistency arose when the description of Sheik was moved to a lower paragraph? In any case, the statement is self-conflicting and therefore nonsensical right now. Unfortunately, I haven't played the game, so I can't fix this :(. -Unknown
 * Where does it say that now? I saw that and changed "swift" to the not-perfect-but-slightly better "agile" 2 days ago, since I thought that better accounted for her dodging skill without contradicting "slow". -WikidSmaht 15:34, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

Template
Does anyone else think the use of the template is horribly ugly, or is it just me? -- WikidSmaht 23:20, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The only thing that really drives me nuts is that it indents the thing in. However, I also wouldn't complain if those were a teensy bit smaller as well. The Missing Link 05:31, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * And it's totally italicized... Well, I'm kind of getting used to it now. -- WikidSmaht 14:04, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

Minor cameos
Upon examining the code, I saw that there is a 'Minor cameos' section that's been commented out. I wanted to add a cameo appearance of Zelda from the Final Fantasy Mystic Quest but now I am uncertain where to add this. Would it be better to add it in 'Appearances in other games' or should the 'Minor cameos' section be uncommented? For now, I'll do the latter and watch the discussion in case there are other opinions. Dkasak 05:47, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
 * That looks right to me. The "Appearances in other games" section deals mostly with games in which Zelda's appearance was significant to the plot, or in which she was/is a playable character. "Minor cameos" is actually a sub-section of that, dealing with appearances or references which are just incidental, like the one you mentioned. I can't say whether it's a true cameo, though, as I haven't played the game. -- WikidSmaht 20:22, September 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * I never played through enough of the game to notice, but am highly interested. Was she really in MQ? Tyciol 05:48, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Formatting suggestion, Interesting tidbit
Instead of writing "Main article: (Zelda game here)" for every game under "Incarnations of Zelda," why don't the headings just link to the game itself? I think that would be much more prudent. Also, I was thinking about working in the fact that Tetra's name doesn't mean three, but four. (It's a common misconception in Zelda fandom that her name is a reference to the triforce.) Does anyone else think that's worthy of inclusion? Guermantes 22:19, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it's a style thing. It would look kind of ugly, and it wouldn't be in line with standard format on Wikipedia. As for Tetra, I don't think that's necessary to mention. And maybe her name does refer indirectly to the Triforce. If you fill in the center and fold along the lines where it was, you can make a tetrahedron, a four-sided regular polyhedron in which each side is an equilateral triangle. -- WikidSmaht (talk) 05:44, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The space in the middle of the Triforce is sometimes interpreted as a missing piece. That piece, if you subscribe to it, is called the Tetraforce. Adam Marx Squared 10:25, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That's neither Zelda-canonical nor real world-factual, though. -- WikidSmaht (talk) 07:02, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * This is true, but I thought I'd mention it. But what do you mean by 'real world-factual?' As in the Tetraforce doesn't exist in the real world? O_o XD Seriously, though. Adam Marx Squared 22:43, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Smash Bros. category
I thought I'd make a category for Smash Bros. fighters, so I included Zelda. I was thinking it might be neat to include Sheik, too, since the game treats them like seperate characters, but I can't figure out how to make a link so that the category page says "Sheik," too. Right now it just has Zelda. Any ideas? Kidicarus222 08:06, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I think if you put
 * [Category: Smash Bros. fighters|Zelda]
 * [Category: Smash Bros. fighters|Sheik]
 * That would do it. I'm about to make an edit anyway, so I'll try it. If that doesn't work, then I have no clue. -- WikidSmaht (talk) 19:40, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Nope, guess not. Sorry. -WikidSmaht (talk) 20:10, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Appearance Familiarities
In Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, her designs are both familiar, but the one in Twilight Princess is a better design. --ZachKudrna18@yahoo.com
 * Thank you for the comment, but talk pages are not an opinion forum to discuss these sorts of things. Cernen 11:43, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, He was( poorly) attempting to justify an edit he made to the article. -- WikidSmaht (talk)
 * Well, it is true, designs do become progressively better with new technology. Perhaps it would be better to say, it has become more refined? -Tyciol 05:48, 12 March 2006 (UTC).

Zelda Gentleness?
In most Zelda games, she appears gentle and fragile during the game. In The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, she and other maidens appear gentle and fragile when sent to the Dark World.

Warrior princess
Now that I've made an article for this, I'd like to discuss it more indepth regarding Zelda. So far there is only a brief mention in the cartoon series. However, with fighting as Sheik, blasting Ganon with light, Tetra, SSB:Melee, and her wielding a sword in the new game, I think a section exploring Zelda's evolving role as a warrior could be better explored. Who would like to help? Tyciol 05:48, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Blue/pink disputed crystal colour?
To be honest, I can't recall myself, but it's being challenged? Who is on the side of Pink and Blue? Please vote for me. If no one speaks up, I'm saved right before Ganondorf, so I can beat his first form to find out if you like. Tyciol 21:51, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I checked on TSA's 4:57 movie that I downloaded, and it is pink on the NTSC version, at least. Setokaiba✌≝ 23:25, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, I’ll change it. BTW, did you see my message on your talk page? SNIyer12 is back... -- WikidSmaht (talk) 23:49, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Director of Ocarina of Time
In the section of the article that discusses Zelda's relationships with other characters, it states that Eiji Aonuma was the director of Ocarina of Time. However, Ocarina of Time was directed by Shigeru Miyamoto, and Eiji Aonuma is not to be found in the staff credits of Oot. If evidence is needed, we have access to a text dump of the credits of Ocarina of Time. If nobody objects, I would like to make this correction in the article. Evan Manning 00:15, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Pictures need to be fixed
Two of the pictures are gone and now display error messages stating that there is a problem creating the thumbnail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.174.254 (talk • contribs) 21:41, April 19 2006
 * Good idea! Tyciol 13:25, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Adding a picture for the Cartoon series
While having the Logo of the super show cartoon is great, I'd like to post a picture of Zelda from the show, since it does deviate a great deal from her normal appearance. Would obtaining a pic off google be acceptable, or are there restrictions? Tyciol 13:25, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Good Article Failed
I dislike the lack of references in the Zelda’s alter egos section. Computerjoe 's talk 14:06, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

To expand, the section seems quite long but completely lacks references. As you know, it is necessary to reference things. Backing it up with a few sources would be great.

Also, Incarnations of Zelda lacks references. Though there a few references, 9 of the sub-sections lack them. Adding these references would improve the article! Computerjoe 's talk 19:25, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, some references have been added but references are still needed for (italic text are headings, no ref needed :P):
 * Incarnations of Zelda
 * A Link to the Past
 * Ocarina of Time
 * Majora’s Mask
 * Oracle Series
 * Four Swords
 * The Wind Waker
 * Four Swords Adventures
 * The Minish Cap
 * Twilight Princess
 * Zelda’s alter egos
 * Tetra


 * Thanks, Computerjoe 's talk 19:47, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Shieks 'Build'
Why the revert my addition to the article. I hardly see any problems from the addition made, it simply clarifies a female characteristic that Zelda clearly 'loses' when she changes form. Quite frankly, im suprised about the way the whole paragrapgh dances around the issue without ever simply stting the 'gender identity' issues stright. (Davinche 08:39, 7 May 2006 (UTC))
 * Um, they can’t be set straight, the whole point of the paragraph is that they’re ambiguous, we don’t know the true nature of the change. As for the addition, I can’t be sure why it was removed the first time, but I just removed it again because the phrasing, spacing, and spelling all sucked. Hard. -- WikidSmaht (talk) 10:58, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that may have been a bit harsh, don’t mean to be biting newbies. But if you want your contributions to Wikipedia to be included in the articles, they should be good prose, with proper spelling and punctuation. -- WikidSmaht (talk) 11:00, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Sheik ears
Is Sheik ever shown with pierced ears? I noticed the disagreement between the gender of Sheik in the article, and I read somewhere else that males have their ears piereced in a ceremony, so we should be able to tell what Zelda is posing as. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 22:30, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * LOL good thought, but A) Sheik’s ears are always concealed by turban, hair, and high collar, B) without a source, that ceremony thing is probably fan-fiction, and C) females, including Zelda herself, are known to wear earrings. Look at the picture at the top of the article. -- WikidSmaht (talk) 22:52, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It was in the Sheikahs bit of one of the character dumps. I was just wondering because I didn't think Zelda's accessories would remain if she changed form. Of course female Sheikahs could do it too. Cheers, H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 22:56, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

In the Sheikah culture it is a rite of passage to get their ears pierced.
 * Says the manga, a secondary source at least. Setokaiba✌≝ 09:27, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Wind Waker Lineage
I might be alone in this, but I would like to dispute the call on Link's lineage in The Wind Waker. I personally feel that the game (as have some games before it) is playing off the idea that much of what was known about the Hero has been lost, and that the King was depending purely on legend. (Triumph Forks anyone?)

Some stuff to note:

1. "Link to the Past" appears to set the stage for all Links being of the same bloodline. At the same time, they are revered as if they were a single, returning entity. (Think something along the lines of the second coming of Christ....only in this case, we have the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc...)

2. Outset island appears to have many traditions specifically involving the Hero of Time, or possible successors. They are also the only remaining "culture" that appears to believe in the triforce. With this in mind, it is not too hard to believe that the family shield did indeed belong to a past Link.

3. The King's information and knowledge is not infallible, and this is made freakishly clear by the story itself. He has, on occasion, sent Link unknowingly into unnecessary danger, due to lack of information, or misinformation.

It is very obvious, due to his interactions with the assorted deities of the ocean, that he was sent on a mission to find the Hero of Time himself. Obviously, the guy is thousands of years dead, and if Link to the Past's idea of a "returning entity of a single bloodline" is true, then no Link was alive during the King's time either. So he picked the next-best thing. An extremely brave kid floating in the ocean. He found the next Hero by pure coincidence.

Sheik is but isn't Zelda?
The wording of the Sheik portion of the article is written in such a way as to imply that Sheik may not be Zelda (it was worse before my recent cleanup). This is just silly. Not only does Zelda herself admit to being disguised as a Sheikah right after Sheik vanishes, not only does Sheik have the glowing mark of the Triforce on "his" hand (which only people with a portion of the Triforce, like Zelda, have), but we actually see the characters swap back and forth in Super Smash Bros. Melee. What gives? --HeroicJay 21:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * And I removed the weasel words and vagueness. --HeroicJay 21:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It probibly means seprate personalitys. --DarkHero 04:38, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

SSBM isn't Zelda series canon, just like Soul Calibur isn't. The triforce might just be design, and I can't remember Zelda saying that she actually was Sheik. Argh. Vore  tus   the   Benevolent  05:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It appeared to be a renegade. Basically, he took Vorteus's explanation and filled the section with weasel words in order to give the illusion of NPOV. However, while Zelda does not explicitly say that she's Sheik in OoT, we see Sheik transform into Zelda! The only real explanation would be Sheik jumping out of the way and never appearing again, or something like that, and Zelda just telling some weird story about disguising herself as a Sheikah for no real reason... and this seriously violates Occam's Razor. Then add in Super Smash Bros.: it's not Zelda canon, true, but do you really think Nintendo would have let Hal get away with making Sheik and Zelda the same character if they weren't meant to be the same character? --HeroicJay 17:15, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Super Smash Bros is made by HAL Laboratories under the strict supervision of NCL, in particular Shigeru Miymaoto. Just like the CAPCOM games were strictly supervised by Nintendo (Nintendo did all the text work for Four Swords and The Minish Cap), the information in Super Smash. Bros. Melee is accurate, factual, and relevant to The Legend of Zelda series.  It is not a "primary" game in the series, it is merely a derivative work, but it's information is still canon.  Also pointed out, Zelda transforms on screen from Sheik into Princess Zelda.  Also, you guys are not very good detectives.  In the beginning of the Adult Link segment, Sheik says that she is "Survivor of the Sheikahs.." (Ocarina of Time 1998), and then later on Princess Zelda says she passed herself off as a Sheikah.  We know that Impa is a Sheikah, though, but througout the game, everyone refers to them as "legendary" race, or extinct.  In fact, the only mention of a living Sheikah is people in Hyrule Caste Market Town referring to a woman in the castle, or when Impa and Zelda ride away on the white horse.  The game gives much evidence that not only are the Sheikah probably extinct, but that Impa is the last of her kind.  So it makes sense that Sheik, who says she is the last surviving member of her kind (in addition to Impa, whom she was protecting - See Kakariko Burning Cutscene - Ocarina of Time - 1998), is Zelda, who says she passed herself off as a Sheikah.  I mean, who else is Zelda?  Another Sheikah who magically never appeared in the game?  I think the only real mystery left here is Sheik's sex, which people argue both ways, and which Shigeru Miyamoto refused to answer at E3 2006 when he was asked about it. --TSA 18:59, 19 July 2006 (UTC)