Talk:Principal Skinner

Joke
Come on, who keeps deleting the 'Principal Skinner is an old man who lives at the school' quote. I hate when people add biased opinions on here, or dumb stuff, but Ralph wiggum said it in an episode. and besides, Skinner IS old, he IS a man, he may not necessarily live at the school but he is often there and the term 'living at the school' could be a compliment that means he is commited to the school and cares a large amount about the school and how it functions. because aside from his personal relationships (his mother and Edna) he is usually only seen in scenes in (or about) the school. Plus it's an inside joke, anyone who reads the line would recognize the line and where it's from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by User: (talk • contribs)

Well if it's quotes you want, how about quotes from Skinner... he's always saying things he doesn't realize have other meanings, like when he is tied up in a Dodge Ball bag, and tells the hamster "Chew through my ball sack" etc. User:Pedant 06:29, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Spelling
Tamzarian or Tanzarian? I've always understood it as the former. There's also more hits (last name only) on the former (c. 28,000) than the latter (c. 10,000) on Google. (While SES' principal, or entities related to such (ie user names based on his birth name) are at the top of the list in both searches, I believe it is a common Armenian name, just unsure to spelling. --Canuckguy 23:38, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's Tamzarian, at least according to http://www.thesimpsons.com/episode_guide/0902.htm and http://www.snpp.com/episodes/4F23. 64.231.15.109 00:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * That first link says that it's Tamzarian, but the second link says that it is Tanzarian. I've watched the episode and I'm pretty sure they say "Tanzarian" (with an N). --Hnsampat 16:01, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Then again, that first link is to the official Simpsons website, so I guess we go with that. --Hnsampat 16:02, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, I am glad to see some users have changed the first name to "Armen" which is the correct Armenian first name (as opposed to "Armin"). I'm Armenian and my uncle bears this name with that spelling. I've never seen it spelled any other way.
 * Armin Shimerman -Platypus Man | Talk 00:01, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Alas, Armin Shimerman is not Armenian. So "Armen" is more accurate. Wolfdog 02:03, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The Simpsons website says it's "Armin" so I changed it to that even though it may not be the "correct" Armenian name. --W00tfest99 14:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

It is actually Armin which is a very common German name.
 * The article still says Armen. Fix it? I'd think it was Armon.
 * He's named after a real person and their name is spelled ARMIN TAMZARIAN and that person is Armenian so by default he is Armenian. He's Armenian for the same reason why someone named Chang or Lee is Chinese or someone named Diamantopoulos is Greek or someone named O'Reilly is Irish. Need more proof? It's simple. Armen and Armin is an extremely Armenian name. See this article. In Armenian, the name would be written Արմէն Թամզարեան. The writer of the Simpsons episode admitted he took the name from a man he met in Los Angeles, which has a high Armenian population & the name was said to be as such in the episode description: Keeler borrowed the name Armin Tamzarian from a claims adjuster who had assisted him after a car accident when he moved to Los Angeles. However, the real Tamzarian (now a California Superior Court Judge[11]) was unaware his name was being used until after the episode aired. Keeler said he later received a "curtly phrased" letter from Tamzarian, who wanted to know why his name appeared in the episode. Keeler feared he would face legal troubles, but afterwards, Tamzarian explained that he was simply curious and did not intend to scare anyone. Definitely Armenian. The name is also Armenian first and Germanic and Nordic took the name from Armenian roots. Also, The very name is a derivation of "Armen" which comes from the "Armenian" word in pretext. Tamzarian is also a real Armenian name and this argument is null and void cause he's obviously Armenian and can't be anything else. - Zarbon (talk) 15:18, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

About his age
The article currently states his age was referred to twice. I am not aware of Kent Brockman ever referring to his age, but I know Superintendent Chalmers says he is 44, in "Grade School Confidential." http://www.snpp.com/episodes/4F09 Has Chalmers been confused with Brockman, or is this a third instance of a reference to his age?

Cleanup
Anyone else think this is a messy article? --711groove 06:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, it's way too long and needs to be separated up into smaller, more concise paragraphs for a start.

Relationship with Edna
Anyone think there should be a few lines about his only form of love life. His relationship with Edna?

Despite the Armenianesque surname...
What makes him Armenian like this article suggests? Should we also say he's Jewish then because of his first name?--Greasysteve13 09:14, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Agree; his Armenian heritage is only assumed because of his name, and his ethnicity is irrelevant to his character (as opposed to the Scottish-ness of Groundskeeper Willie or the Indian-ness of Apu). Certainly the detail does not deserve to go in the first paragraph in the article. Kransky 11:01, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Totally agreed. There is no credible evidence that he is Armenian. To put it in we need a reliable source that says "is Armenian". User:Pedant 06:33, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's been five years since anyone last commented on this, but I also fully agree. After all this time, the article still has no credible sources (besides various Wikis and fanpages) stating that he is of Armenian descent. If no takers for this task show up, I'm nixing that tidbit myself. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 23:37, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * He's Armenian for the same reason why someone named Chang or Lee is Chinese or someone named Diamantopoulos is Greek or someone named O'Reilly is Irish. Need more proof? It's simple. Armen and Armin is an extremely Armenian name. See this article. In Armenian, the name would be written Արմէն Թամզարեան. The writer of the Simpsons episode admitted he took the name from a man he met in Los Angeles, which has a high Armenian population & the name was said to be as such in the episode description: Keeler borrowed the name Armin Tamzarian from a claims adjuster who had assisted him after a car accident when he moved to Los Angeles. However, the real Tamzarian (now a California Superior Court Judge[11]) was unaware his name was being used until after the episode aired. Keeler said he later received a "curtly phrased" letter from Tamzarian, who wanted to know why his name appeared in the episode. Keeler feared he would face legal troubles, but afterwards, Tamzarian explained that he was simply curious and did not intend to scare anyone. Definitely Armenian. The name is also Armenian first and Germanic and Nordic took the name from Armenian roots. Also, The very name is a derivation of "Armen" which comes from the "Armenian" word in pretext. Tamzarian is also a real Armenian name and this argument is null and void cause he's obviously Armenian and can't be anything else. - Zarbon (talk) 15:13, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Name
Isn't Seymour Skinner a play on words...like "see more skin-ner". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.175.23.73 (talk) 04:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC).
 * I thought his name paid homage to Leonard Skinner, the "by the book" coach that Lynyrd Skynyrd named themselves after. Can someone cite a source that proves that the character is named after the educators listed in the article? Respectfully, SamBlob 00:04, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Seymour Skinner
This article is about Armen Tamzarian rather than Seymour Skinner. Shouldn't Skinner have an article as well?ufossuck 03:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * As a one-time character from The Simpsons, the real Seymour Skinner has a section in List of one-time characters from The Simpsons. Respectfully, SamBlob 23:59, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Relation to B. F. Skinner?
Is it possible, Skinners name ist chosen because of the famous behaviourist B. F. Skinner? B. F. Skinner had a big influence on american post war education. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.72.226.167 (talk) 20:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Um... The article already says that... -- Scorpion0422 20:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

In the episode itself, they reveal he is ARMENIAN and his last name is Tamzarian. Get your simpson facts straight :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.228.82.159 (talk) 23:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Links to New Orleans
What's to be taken closer to canon: The Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase or The Principal and the Pauper? The former indicates his youth was spent in New Orleans, whereas the latter puts a longer timespan as having been spent in Capitol City. Granted, the former could be assumed to fictionalised accounts of each of the spin-off stories, but they do seem to at least be rooted in the character's histories. Cheers! -- Bossi  ( talk • gallery • contrib ) 18:06, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

War Experience
The article mentions, twice, that he has been a prisoner of war in Vietnam. The Principal and the Pauper implied that this is not the case, he went to war for a short time and came back, stealing the story of the real Skinner. I see no reason why the prisoner of war stuff remains. The real Skinner is the one who went to POW camp, which is why he did not return to Springfield earlier. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.75.62 (talk) 13:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This is an interesting issue. It is made clear that Skinner has flashbacks to being a prisoner of war, and also that he was an officer (trying to stop his men from running when they were eaten by the elephant). It is then presented to the skeptical viewers (Groening and the man who voices Skinner also had their doubts) that he was a lowly conscript and was free at the time the real Skinner was presumed dead, and then went back and met the mother etc. While it was possible to contradict his presentation of himself as a veteran sergeant etc, it makes less sense that he had flashbacks to being a sergeant or a PoW. They could probably be explained as delusions and the POW thing as that he was captured and one point and escaped or was excahnged, but WP:WAF warns against “Trying to reconcile contradictions or fill gaps in a fictional continuity, rather than reporting them as such”. I think it’s quite clear that the genuine sergeant story is part of how the character was developed, which is what we’re supposed to be describing. The private/fraud story could be either be described as a twist (more or less as it currently is) or as the definitive story via retcon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Billwilson5060 (talk • contribs) 13:23, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

The "W"
In response to Scorpion's recent edit summary, I think there's at least an argument that the W is not canonical, as it's never heard from again. For all we know, it could've been some kind of typo or error made by whoever filled out the form. Considering that the initial is not used, for instance, on the official website's bio of Skinner, I think that we should deal with the W in something like a footnote rather than have it be in the first line of the article. At the very least, that kind of placement affords it undue weight relative to its use in the series. Croctotheface (talk) 01:59, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Look up what canon means, then we'll have this discussion. As well, Bart's full name isn't on the official website either. As for your "undue weight" claim, it's 3 characters. If it was three sentences, then I'd agree with you. -- Scorpion 0422  02:12, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd suggest you "look up what civility means, then we'll have this discussion." There's no evidence that Skinner actually has W as his first initial except for a single visual reference (and no dialogue) in a single episode.  That does not establish that the initial is part of his name, and putting it right at the top of the article calls way too much attention to it.  Croctotheface (talk) 02:16, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait a second here, three characters at the top of the page is undue weight, but having several setences explaining it is not? In the commentary for the episode, the writers confirm that it was placed in the episode intentionally and is part of his full name, so it's not like it's a background thing that was just thrown in there by the animators. -- Scorpion 0422  02:24, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that we should explain the initial in a footnote, not in the lead. The commentary does not say, "Oh, we changed Skinner's name for this show," it's more to the effect of, "See, there's another one, W. Seymour Skinner, W.S."  Considering that there is no other reference to this initial in any other episode and that there is no reference to it in any kind of dialogue, there are plenty of other ways to explain the W's presence on that piece of paper besides it being part of Skinner's name.  (You've never had your name misspelled on any kind of document?)  And even if it IS meant to be part of the name, considering that it is not referred to again, I'm inclined to believe that the initial is part of the "flexible reality" of the show; much like the Simpsons' house having the power plant parking lot in its backyard, it was used a single time for a single purpose and then not referred to again.  Croctotheface (talk) 02:51, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Gee, I'm not allowed to take my time in answering? I'd rather edit and improve (you might want to look that word up too) articles than get into petty disputes with people who are seeking disputes. The writers state very clearly that they intentionally gave him the name and like it or not (and you obviously fall in the not category), it is his stated full name and thus should be mentioned in the lead. And don't try to use OR or faulty logic such as "oh, it was a mistake" to explain it away. Second, I would rather mention it very briefly in the lead rather than in-depth in the article, or have a note for it. In order to fully explain the situation and reasoning, it would take several sentences, which IS undue weight. What is the point in mentioning it in-depth in the article, but not in the lead? Finally, an IP will just re-add it eventually, so why fight it? -- Scorpion 0422  05:49, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

The Principal and the Pauper
Wait a second, Shearer's response to The Principal and the Pauper isn't relevant here?..... Are you serious? I know you're against articles being in-depth and comprehensive, but the fact that Shearer vocally reacted to a change in a character he voices is very important and warrants a mention here. I did my best to keep it as brief as possible, but I think a major episode like that does deserve an extended mention here. -- Scorpion 0422  05:56, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I know that you're against being civil, but you should try it sometime. Seriously.  It's not necessary to describe his reaction in such detail both at this article and the other one.  But since you own all the Simpsons articles, I'll just go away and let you do what you like.  It's not worth trying when you're just going to edit war to get your changes in anyway.  Perhaps one day you'll be open to the idea that edits you disagree with might actually be better for the encyclopedia.  Croctotheface (talk) 08:44, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Translation: You agree with me and you're just leaving in a blaze of sour grapes. First off, there is not very much detail there, it's just a single quote (the episode article has two), and second, please show me where it says that there can't be overlap between two different articles. I think anything that directly relates to Skinner's character deserves mention here, especially such an important episode. Users looking to learn more about Skinner's character wouldn't want to have to flip between this one and several episode articles. -- Scorpion 0422  17:10, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Waitaminute: am I missing something here? In "The Principal and the Pauper" it says, that this man 40px is Agnes Skinner's stepson; but in "Boy meets curl" we have live footage from inside Agnes' womb, showing he is her real son??
 * 77.118.157.143 (talk) 20:13, 18 February 2010 (UTC) xymx
 * Yeah, that's partly why this episode is so controversial - it blatantly disregards and contradicts 8+ years of established continuity. -Hatster301 (talk) 03:57, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * On a side note, anyone else notice that there are two separate sections for The Principal and the Pauper? Shouldn't they should be merged into a single section? -Hatster301 (talk) 03:57, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * No, the 2nd one is questioning this one...for some reason. C T F 8 3 !  04:33, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Gravestone?
Just watching The Wizard of Evergreen Terrace on TV... there's a future sequence of Homer's funeral. At the start of that scene, the camera goes past a gravestone with a flashing light on it, pretty quickly: It had the name 'Tamzarian' on it! I double checked it on watchthesimpsonsonline.com, and it's true! JaffaCakeLover (talk) 09:42, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

worm water
should it be mentioned that he was suppost to be normal b4 diving in the worm pool and being traped there 4 3 days —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.193.226 (talk) 18:11, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No, just a one episode joke. C T J F 8 3  GoUSA 19:57, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * the practical joker in that episode was andy hamilton, mayhap the same as the british comedian.75.61.134.173 (talk) 06:47, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:44, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Seymour Skinner → Principal Skinner – Per WP:COMMONNAME.  Dough 48  72  22:14, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Support C T J F 8 3  22:20, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:COMMONNAME and precedent at Talk:Reverend Lovejoy. Jenks24 (talk) 05:59, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Support Theleftorium (talk) 20:33, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose Neutral. He is actually quite often referred to as Seymour - espescially, by his mother. On the show, people either call him Skinner or Seymour, so I believe this is correct title. --Maitch (talk) 09:52, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * There's 160 results for "seymour skinner" and "simpsons" on Google News, while "principal skinner" and "simpsons" has 1,060 results. Theleftorium (talk) 17:02, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, if we go by the google test, then I believe more people call him "Principal Skinner". I do however think that he is called Seymour more often than "Principal Skinner" on the show itself. --Maitch (talk) 18:17, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * His mom and Chalmers are the only one that call him Seymour. C T J F 8 3  18:21, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, and the rest calls him just Skinner. Hardly anyone says "Principal Skinner". --Maitch (talk) 18:30, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Many of the kids at the school refer to him as "Principal Skinner".  Dough 48  72  19:47, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really matter what the characters call him though. As WP:COMMONNAME says, "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's 'official' name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources." And that is "Principal Skinner". Theleftorium (talk) 19:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Two Principal and the Pauper sections
The two Principal and the Pauper sections should be merged. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:41, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * What 2 sections? This is the 2nd section. C T F 8 3 !  00:36, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

"Fictional American people of Armenian descent"
The above category keeps getting added to the article, and I will keep removing it until a reliable source for Skinner's supposedly Armenian roots is provided. Any takers? I doubt it. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 22:16, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I concur with you. Probably a 2 second joke people feel the need to add. C T F 8 3 !  05:18, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Either that, or some misguided Armenian folks feel the need to "claim" the character as being from there. They've most likely latched onto a few unsourced statements added to this article years ago, with the myth now enduring. Either way it's dumb, and unless they provide a source that hasn't been lifted from the Simpsons Wiki, there's no way I'm letting it slide. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:17, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Typical Armenian behaviour over wikipedia Gosh they have to Armenize like everthing from "Strangers of the Night" to Russian General Suvorov 89.211.250.224 (talk) 20:56, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

He's Armenian for the same reason why someone named Chang or Lee is Chinese or someone named Diamantopoulos is Greek or someone named O'Reilly is Irish. Need more proof? It's simple. Armen and Armin is an extremely Armenian name. See this article. In Armenian, the name would be written Արմէն Թամզարեան. The writer of the Simpsons episode admitted he took the name from a man he met in Los Angeles, which has a high Armenian population & the name was said to be as such in the episode description: ''Keeler borrowed the name Armin Tamzarian from a claims adjuster who had assisted him after a car accident when he moved to Los Angeles. However, the real Tamzarian (now a California Superior Court Judge[11]) was unaware his name was being used until after the episode aired. Keeler said he later received a "curtly phrased" letter from Tamzarian, who wanted to know why his name appeared in the episode. Keeler feared he would face legal troubles, but afterwards, Tamzarian explained that he was simply curious and did not intend to scare anyone.'' Definitely Armenian. The name is also Armenian first and Germanic and Nordic took the name from Armenian roots. Also, The very name is a derivation of "Armen" which comes from the "Armenian" word in pretext. Tamzarian is also a real Armenian name and this argument is null and void cause he's obviously Armenian and can't be anything else. - Zarbon (talk) 15:08, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Utter load of bullshit. Can't be anything else. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 15:37, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Change target of Armin Tamzarian
Can someone please redirect the Simpsons character Armin_Tamzarian to the Principal_Skinner article? Thanks! Venustar84 (talk) 00:38, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Since it alreay links to a valid article, it would be best to discuss it. C T F 8 3 !  19:27, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Seymour is Armin and they are the same fictions character so i think linking the 2 articles makes sense. 108.180.17.36 (talk) 04:55, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Job
His singing role in "Homer's Barbershop Quartet" is in the infobox, even though his most-seen former job, as a soldier in Vietnam, is not. That job is also a significant part of his back-story. What should be done? All three jobs, just a select two, or just his main role as the Principal? Thegreatelgrande (talk) 22:19, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it should be just his occupation as principal. The other two are redundant. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 23:48, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Just principal, no one episode jobs are notable. C T F 8 3 !  10:24, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

"Walter"
I've taken to reverting this on sight, and others should too. There are no reliable sources on that name, just the W. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 13:07, 13 February 2021 (UTC)