Talk:Prisoners of War (TV series)

First season finale
At the end of the first season finale the mystery of the third prisoner is revealed

This suggests that there are plans to make a second series. Is there anything to confirm that a second series is either planned or under production? Brilliant series, by the way! Skinsmoke (talk) 02:42, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sentence has been removed, but yes, a second season has been produced and is due to be broadcast in Israel from October 2012. Awesome series! Knightly Too (talk) 08:29, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Transliteration
Why is the transliteration of episodes even needed? The English title is more than enough. --IdanElh (talk) 07:41, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Transliterations were added in the absence of any other source of titles (in Hebrew or English) for season 2 episodes not yet shown. Once season 2 has finished (or if another source of future episode titles is found), the transliterations could be removed - but see section below regarding English translations. In the meantime, perhaps a Hebrew speaker could provide English titles based on the transliterations? Knightly Too (talk) 09:06, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

English translation of episode titles
For season 1 there is an "official" English title for each episode (as broadcast on Sky Arts and Hulu, and included on the subtitled DVD). The official title is not always a direct translation of the Hebrew title (ie episodes 1:1, 1:7, 1:8 and 1:10).

For season 2, official English episode titles are not yet available, so the titles shown on the English Wikipedia page are simply a direct translation of the Hebrew. However, in some cases the Hebrew title is open to a variety of meanings (in particular, episodes 2:5, 2:6 and 2:8). Ideally need someone who has actually seen each episode to come up with the most appropriate English translation based on the episode content.

Until official English episode titles become available, would it improve accuracy on the English Wikipedia page to include, in addition to English translations, either the transliterations or the original Hebrew titles? Knightly Too (talk) 09:06, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Season 1 - English translation of Hebrew episode titles now added (where different from "official" English episode title). Knightly Too (talk) 10:58, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Original Hebrew titles for these episodes now also added. Knightly Too (talk) 12:27, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Season 2 - Page now includes both the original Hebrew episode titles and their transliterations into English. Once official English episode titles are published, suggest that Hebrew titles and transliterations are removed (with the exception of episodes for which the official English title is markedly different from the translated Hebrew - ie as for Season 1). Knightly Too (talk) 12:39, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Official English episode titles (from Hulu) added. Original Hebrew titles retained where markedly different (ie as for Season 1). Knightly Too (talk) 09:39, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Season 2 Episode 13: English translation of episode title
The original Hebrew title of this episode is מבצע יהודה, (Operation Yehuda).

However, the Hebrew word יהודה (Yehuda) can be translated into English in a variety of ways, including:


 * Yehuda or Judah (masculine given name), eg:
 * Judah (fourth son of the Biblical patriarch Jacob)
 * Judah (tribe)
 * Judah Maccabee (leader of the Maccabean Revolt)
 * Judas (masculine given name), eg:
 * Judas Iscariot
 * Judea (geographical area).

On Hulu (United States), the episode title is translated into English as "Operation Judea".

On Super Channel (Canada) (Canada), it is variously translated as "Operation Judea" or "Operation Judas".

On the Season 2 DVD (with English subtitles), it is translated in different episodes as "Operation Judah", "Operation Yehuda" and "Operation Yehudah".

Can anyone - and ideally a native Hebrew speaker who has watched both seasons of Prisoners of War - please shed some light on why (within the context of the story) the operation would have been named Yehuda and which English translation would best reflect this? Of all the options, "Judea" the geographical area (as used by Hulu) seems the least potentially relevant. "Judas", as used in some places by Super Channel, might be appropriate if it is drawing a parallel between Amiel (Yusuf) - a potential traitor - and Judas Iscariot? -- Knightly Too (talk) 11:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I spoke with a native speaker of Hebrew who has watched both seasons after making my comment, because I felt the translation was so jarring in the context. My thinking is, this is an Israeli show made first and foremost for consumption by Jewish Israelis, and an association with Judas Iscariot is not likely to be the first association made, or even an early one. Military operation names in Israel are usually taken from biblical (what Xians call the old testament) sources. However, you are interested in my friend's thinking, not mine, so I'll try to replicate it. Basically, he also thought the Judas translation totally inappropriate in a Jewish context. He pointed out that Yousef is the Arabic version of Yosef, Joseph in English, one of the 12 sons of Jacob/Yaakov, who became a slave and prisoner in Egypt as a result of the actions of his brothers. The parallel is pretty clear. Amiel was imprisoned, and he agreed to join Jamal on the condition that Uri and Nimrod went free, so he became, in a sense, a slave because of his brothers. When Yosef got out of prison he became second in command in Egypt, just as Amiel is being groomed to be a leader in the terrorist organization. Yosef married the daughter of an Egyptian priest. Amiel married the daughter of the imam. Like I said, the parallels are pretty clear. It's true, in the Joseph story he doesn't return to Canaan, but the family is reunited by the action of his brother Yehuda, who persuades Yaakov to send Benjamin to Egypt with them the second time. My friend feels that Operation Yehuda is called that because it's about, in effect, bringing Yosef out of Egypt, that is, bringing Amiel/Yousuf out of Syria, and the reference is to Yehuda's role in reuniting the family. There are probably other interpretations, but in spite of the obvious (in the Xian context) idea of Judas the betrayer, that one is so un-Jewish that I really don't think the writers and producer of the show would have been thinking in that direction. -- ````FayW — Preceding unsigned comment added by FayW (talk • contribs) 15:17, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * P.S. I really don't think, that an Israeli Jewish audience (the primary consumers of this show) listening to a program in Hebrew, and hearing the very familiar Hebrew name Yehuda, would make associations with a figure in Xianity. In my experience, Israelis know less and think less about Xianity than American Jews like myself, who grow up surrounded by it. And when I was watching the show (I'm not a native speaker of Hebrew, but I'm fairly fluent, so I listen to the Hebrew dialog), even though I'm much more familiar with the details of Xianity than your average Israeli, I made no associations with Judas. When I saw the translation on Wikipedia I thought, 'yes, I can see how you could make a parallel', but I just don't think that one was intended. -- FayW (talk) 15:28, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the explanation. As you say, the parallels with the Joseph/Judah story in the Old Testament are pretty clear. (Had previously found a reference to the symbolism of Amiel's Muslim name Yusuf, but not Operation Judah.) Would add the proviso that, whilst the viewer knows about Amiel's change of name and marriage, the people who named the operation (Atar Shorer, etc) did not - but even allowing for that, translating the name of the operation as "Judah" still makes more sense than "Judas". Have added a reference to the article (next to the episode title) mentioning the Biblical allusion. -- Knightly Too (talk) 17:14, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

No more criticism?
Is it possible that the only line of criticism regarding this show comes from "family members of soldiers held prisoner"?

Has there been no criticism from other sources, including foreign critics? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.250.187.16 (talk) 14:29, 27 November 2014 (UTC)